[Playable] The Graven Of The Second Generation

[spqrSancus 173]

Supremacy's spectral standardisations main purpose was to stop abuse of spectrals. Many of the first ghosts just chilled in the Malinor square casually chatting rather than doing anything remotely ghostly, then using their ghost powers to be invunerable in fights. Gravens, which are corporeal, were even worse. I saw one Graven that was part of a raider party.

 

I disagree with Jistuma's standpoint that RPing a spectral like a spectral damages their RP potential to the point of only event viability. Acting as paragraph 1 completely diminishes their purpose and the nature of their RP, they're just another set of special powers on an otherwise generic character. Character RP is what you make of it. If you look at The Eternal Librarian, you've got a character that interacts with the playerbase but is still undeniably a ghost. You're not going to go down da pub for a drink with it. However, it's an almost integral part of RP in the Hael'unor library now.

 

I'd always disliked Gravens, I viewed them as the most heavily abused of the character types and I commend your attempt to update them without compromising what they are in the first place. My one concern is how you require them to be together: this kind of forces them into another player antagonist group, a sort of Graven Guild. While I understand this approach gives you a degree of oversight, I feel the forceful amalgamation of future Gravens isn't the right approach.

 

Apart from that last concern, which is certainly valid, do you think this would be a step forward or back for the Graven? Furthermore, do you see any other major concerns? I want them to be together mainly so that we can have some normal interactive RP amongst ourselves, and to allow flexibility in what they must do, but I don't want it to feel forced. Any suggestions on how to get that done without it feeling like a forced amalgamation?

[Quavinir_Twiceborn 1041]

Apart from that last concern, which is certainly valid, do you think this would be a step forward or back for the Graven? Furthermore, do you see any other major concerns? I want them to be together mainly so that we can have some normal interactive RP amongst ourselves, and to allow flexibility in what they must do, but I don't want it to feel forced. Any suggestions on how to get that done without it feeling like a forced amalgamation?

As a relatively new Graven - from what I can tell, Gravens should not be forced to do anything but there alotted tasks.

In Grim's original post- he illustrated in the introduction of the lore of a warden Graven and an jailor Graven occassionally working together.

I believe that the best way to bring Gravens together would to simply let them continue with their purposes, and hope at certain point one Graven's will intersect with another's.

I myself as a new Graven still have alot to learn about Graven etiquette in general; but so far I've had alot of fun (and hopefully helped others have fun) by spooking people off my farm, and challenging people to staring contests to get people to leave.

Currently I dont believe Gravens need to be brought together for any reason.

[Lago 2569]

I'd encourage Gravens to work together, but not force it.

[spqrSancus 173]

As a relatively new Graven - from what I can tell, Gravens should not be forced to do anything but there alotted tasks.

In Grim's original post- he illustrated in the introduction of the lore of a warden Graven and an jailor Graven occassionally working together.

I believe that the best way to bring Gravens together would to simply let them continue with their purposes, and hope at certain point one Graven's will intersect with another's.

I myself as a new Graven still have alot to learn about Graven etiquette in general; but so far I've had alot of fun (and hopefully helped others have fun) by spooking people off my farm, and challenging people to staring contests to get people to leave.

Currently I dont believe Gravens need to be brought together for any reason.

 

These Graven would, if only for a few reasons. One is that these Graven are almost certainly going to be hunted wherever they go. They'll need to be able to RP with SOME normality, as Jistuma has quite truthfully said. While we do want Graven to remain nice and spooky, they need to be able to develop as characters in some way - guess what's left after the mortals are out of the picture. The dead. Yup. Also, don't forget that Graven are incredibly weak on their own.

 

As for allotted tasks, these Graven are still bound by their tasks. The only real difference is that one task is static, and cannot be changed, and another is entirely their own, which is more fluid. Think of the one task as being solid and unchangeable, and the second is a viscous syrup. :P

 

Don't forget mine was one of the original Graven, and the second one to be created and actively played, after the Warden himself. I myself saw how Grim's Graven tended to work together, and honestly, it just doesn't work the way it needs to be able to.

Again, I am going to really stress this one point: while I do not approve of people RPing Graven as a way to bring back PK'd characters, I will hold no jurisdiction over them, nor will they be bound to said lore, as it is Grim's and Supremacy's lore which they would be following as first generation Graven. The only time they will be is if they attempt to create a Graven of their own (as in make someone else's character a Graven). Nonetheless, thanks for continuing to help me consider and reconsider this lore, to help change it to best fit. Seriously though, thanks. You and Lago are helping me a lot.

 

I'd encourage Gravens to work together, but not force it.

 

Hmmm... Alright. Well, I'll leave the connection between first and second generations, mainly because that's a very important part of this lore, without which would not make sense, but that's a very good point...

 

I'll be encouraging it in RP, and OOCly, but I will not force two Graven of the second generation to work together, especially if any one of them conflicts with the other's allocated duties. It will not be a rule, just something they should keep in mind...

 

Alright, apart from all of that, do you think it's good? Do you see any major loopholes, breaks in mech standard, lore, etc?

 

Finally, could you look over my answer to Jistuma and tell me if any of those things would be alright to help correct the imbalancing, and whether they would even fit the Graven? Thanks a lot Lago, for all the help, really do appreciate it. :)

[hellfiazz 878]

Like the lore, +1 from me.

 

Like people have said before, the only problem with the Gravens is how the players would abuse them. I myself know I went above the lore (fully intended pun) to an extent a few times, but at least I made sure I never forced anything on anyone. All the effects of the stare were optional.

 

The problem with the regulation of the old Gravens was that Grim quickly went inactive after starting them, and so there was little to no moderation of them. I know spqr to be an active and intelligent person, and so I think that the old problem is much less likely to arise with him moderating this time round.

[TheWhiteWolf 1028]

I don't know if i missed it while reading this, but what is to happen to the original Graven? (Curious as i still play my Graven on occasion 'Spectral Bard' ) And would first gen graven be able to become or create a new graven?

[spqrSancus 173]

I don't know if i missed it while reading this, but what is to happen to the original Graven? (Curious as i still play my Graven on occasion 'Spectral Bard' ) And would first gen graven be able to become or create a new graven?

 

Nothing of note will happen to current Graven. The grand majority of original Graven, barring yourself and Lalve, no longer play said original 13, and current Graven that were created after the applications and moderation of Graven RP stopped will not be affected, and as much as I would like to tell people to stop RPing their Graven as a bring back PK'd thing. I will only be moderating the second generation Graven, mostly in the form of a) keeping their numbers LOW, b) making sure they aren't breaking lore and are acting spooky and ghost-like, and c) organizing group RP events.

 

As for your second question, first-gen Graven can't BECOME second-gen, albeit they may create new Graven with a) permission from the player, and b) permission from myself in the form of the Graven-to-be making an app.

 

If the character has already been PK'd, it will be automatically denied, no exceptions. I've said it before, I'll say it again; Graven were NEVER meant to be a loophole to bringing back PK's.

 

This is all assuming that a) the lore is accepted, or b) that the lore is mech standard and does not break lore. Whichever comes first. Currently waiting on Lago whether it's mech standard, and if it is, I'll be starting it up immediately. People should note I will be harsh and strict about the rules about Graven, and doubly so for those who RP it without getting an app accepted.

[TheWhiteWolf 1028]

Awesome, i look forward to seeing if this gets accepted and making an app.

[Supremacy 3357]

Might I suggest a quick bullet point summary? I've read it, but bullet summaries make it easier.

[spqrSancus 173]

Might I suggest a quick bullet point summary? I've read it, but bullet summaries make it easier.

 

Alright, got it Supremacy. I'll try and condense it down as much as possible. 

 

EDIT: Check your inbox in an hour or so.

[spqrSancus 173]

Alright, got it Supremacy. I'll try and condense it down as much as possible. 

 

EDIT: Check your inbox in an hour or so.

 

Alright, since this thing seems to be so popular for no apparent reason, I am making the assumption everyone wants to be lazy and wants to have the summary posted publicly. *sighs* Fine.

 

Please note that due to this being a condensation of the proposed lore, that I am not including information about the originals in this bullet-point summary.

 

The Graven of the Second Generation

 

• Ghost-like being created by violent death of individuals with purpose.
• Die to other Graven rather than living hands.
• Manifest quicker than the originals - within a hundred years or less.
• Retain more of memory and personality than originals.
• Become more aggressive, darker, and apathetic to mortals due to the hastened translation from life into undeath
• Created to fulfill another Graven's duty, generally one of the first generation.
• Heals slower and reaches full power slower than first-generation due to sharing energy with the Graven's creator.
• Can adapt and change, unlike the first Graven.
• Possesses two duties instead of one - one static and allocated by their creator, and the other adaptable and even completely changeable.
• Angry, vengeful, and overall malevolent nature manifests itself as a physical heat. Not enough to be passively used as a weapon as the originals could with cold.
• Heat is a tell-tale sign of Graven health, starting by default at a bit over feverish.
• Interaction with the world is limited by the two duties.
• Second duty allows slow but certain adaptation to the world around them, and can completely translate from one duty to another in about 3 IRL days, and does not necessarily have to relate to their primary, static, duty. The static, allocated duty cannot be changed.
• Semi-corporeal. Lack real bodies of flesh, but rather composed of what appears to be solid and dense darkness or energy bound together by spirit energy, which simulates flesh.
• Can be harmed, maimed, and dismembered like any mortal.
• Can be harmed by steel and gold.
• More fluid - can appear to float apart as smoke as they move towards a person (mainly aesthetic unless lore would allow otherwise).
• Can harm others depending on current duties, so long as said harm aids in a) the fulfillment of aforementioned duties, or b) aids them in stopping another from stopping the progress of their own duties beyond any reasonable doubt.
• Typically prefer not to associate or talk with mortals directly. Estrange themselves from the living, as according to Supremacy's various lores.
• Continue to be able to perform the Graven Stares, which allow for the possibility of causing temporary insanity in a mortal. Can be manifest in a variety of ways, but there should always be certain types of characters which would find themselves immune to a stare or would otherwise be able to resist it, depending on nature of said stare.
• Second gen can communicate via said stares without risk of harming a mortal, in creating and maintaining pseudo eye-contact, which allows said Graven to transmit images (not necessarily memories, but images) and emotions. Said communication stares can also be "overheard" by others in the vicinity, especially those who also make "eye-contact." (Eye contact in this case means that the first mortal needs to meet the eyes of the Graven, and all others then looking in the general direction of the Graven's face. It is not hindered by closing eyes nor blinking, albeit the weaponized stare is.)
• Can use magic equivalent to about the same extent as a tier 3 mage, typically in the form of fire and/or telekinesis, however, extensive use of said magic can and WILL kill the Graven, as they draw not from the void but from their very essence.
• Can make itself translucent, but not transparent enough to truly hide. They instead can "melt" into the darkness, making them almost invisible unless actively looked for.
• Demanifests and manifests naturally.
• Graven can be slain, disrupting their spectral form with, say, a blade, consumes the energy keeping them alive, and stabbing it through where it's heart might once have been will surely kill it. Graven will die from exposure to the sun, and are rarely seen in heavily populated cities, preferring to keep themselves secret.
• Generally share their appearance with Haunts or appear to be composed of dark smoke and orange and red flames and embers.
• Gear corporealises on manifestation, and decorporealises if the Graven demanifests on it's own.

Some OOC notes: Graven, in this instance, refers to Graven of the second generation. No Graven of the original thirteen nor those of the first generation created afterwards are affected by this lore, nor may they change their Graven to be of the second generation, nor will they be moderated by me. Graven of the second generation will be limited to no more than six, and they will have to complete an app to be accepted, as I don't want Graven to just become another player with special powers.

 

What benefit will the server receive, from allowing this lore? (Note that as I have condensed said information, this information is not entirely clear and one should go back to the OP and reread the corresponding paragraph before commenting on any given point.)

• True otherworldly roleplay.
• Whispered rumours and legends, rather than a given fact.
• Bump in the dark Graven - no more running around in broad daylight in the middle of the city wielding giant greatswords (a gift from me, to you, Oren).
• Versatile spooky RP.
• Secretive Graven.
• Brings back the Graven RP, including the politics they seemed to love so much, which the playerbase seemed to very much enjoy, but darker, twisted, and a hell of a lot more secretive.
• Most likely less of a disruption to (peaceful and/or mundane) RP than the originals.
• Brings back the appeal of the Graven.

What benefit will players receive, if this lore is accepted? (Note that as I have condensed said information, this information is not entirely clear and one should go back to the OP and reread the corresponding paragraph before commenting on any given point.)

• Material rewards, including armour, tools, weapons, maybe materials.
• Legends and stories, provided they are RP'd correctly and the playerbase should decide to talk about them or post about their encounters in RP.
• "Spooky," "Fun," and/or "Badass," RP, as recounted by various individuals and groups.
• Intricate and complex but interesting roleplay, from the politics and rivalries between Graven to the abilities themselves.
• No more ghosts RPing as though normal characters in broad daylight! YEAAAAAA!!!
• More group-based events, rather than individual events as seen with the originals.
• Adaptable second duty allows for Graven to aid other Graven in their duties.

I want to sum up pros (strengths over playerbase), cons (weaknesses against playerbase), and neutral points (things available to both Graven and playerbase).

 

Pros

 

-Graven stare can possibly cause temporary insanity, depending on the mortal affected. Said insanity can be made permanent if the victim so wishes, but do not offer. It is their choice.

-Can hide and become nearly invisible in the darkness.

-Can float for aesthetics, though it gives no real function.

-Creates otherworldly RP (truly ghostly, strange, and more haunting encounters than the previous Graven)

-Are not subject to the same physical weakening that most mortal, living mages are, due to the lack of a true body, and can thus use a sword and magic in conjunction with each other much better than the living mage, even if said magic is often weaker.

 

Neutral

 

-Semi-corporeal: bodies to maim and injure.

-Can be killed by any material.

-Can use low level magical abilities available to players via the easily accessible arcane magics.

-Subject to same minimum respawn time and memory loss.

-Harmed the same way a mortal would be.

 

Cons

 

-Everyone is out to get them. No, I'm not kidding. This is actually a really big con for Graven RPers, as the playerbase will hunt and chase them wherever they go, and furthermore, powergaming they have holy water when they would not have one without the aid of Tahariae war clerics. If you doubt it, just think back to the Graven roleplay period. If your memory is intact, and you're honest to yourself, you'd know this happened repeatedly.

-Demanifests quickly in sunlight.

-Demanifests on their own if they do not do their duties.

-Actions are bound by their duties.

-Can be killed immediately by gold.

((Blessed water apparently does not exist and as such no weakness there is needed))

-Can be killed by certain shamans (Lutaumen) and war clerics.

-Magic drainers can also kill them by literally draining them of their essence, whether it is a deity drainer or arcane.

-REQUIRED to drop a (useful or valuable) item on death.

-Can demanifest by using magic too extensively.

-Magic can never be more powerful than a tier 3 mage, tops, even at full power.

[Quavinir_Twiceborn 1041]

Quick question: These new Gravens can likewise be PK'd by clerics and shamans, - rather than just demanifested, no?

[spqrSancus 173]

Quick question: These new Gravens can likewise be PK'd by clerics and shamans, - rather than just demanifested, no?

 

Same as the previous lores. Yes, provided that it is a) a war cleric of some considerable power, and b) the shaman is a lutauman.

[Zarsies 6024]

Accepted! Becoming a Second Generation Graven is up to the lore originator and if you wish to become one, send them a PM with the application.

 

This'll be moved in a moment.

[ToodIes 1188]

Lore shelved. Moved to Outdated Lore.