[Lore/magic Idea] Soul Puppetry Expansion(?) : Healing

[Demotheus 649]

https://www.lordofthecraft.net/topic/93739-lore-magic-complete-repost-soul-puppetry/

 

Foreword

 

I heard a lore master post something somewhere on the forums about dark magic healing being a possibility. I thought that would be neat, and realized it can be done via soul puppetry, in theory at least. Also, I don't have time to put forth fancy pictures and fancy fonts and so on and so forth, and so deal with it, and?

 

 

Overview

 

The idea is to do the opposite of what most people would likely do with soul puppetry (which usually is laying curses, torture, etc.) I figured, if you can create massive injuries with soul puppetry, than logically you should be able to do the reverse, and heal them, right?

 

Of course, it's give and take. What ends up happening is the person being "healed" will be in excruciating pain, proportional to their injury that's being healed. Idealy, they would feel about the same amount and same type of pain that they did when the injury was inflicted in the first place. Reliving it, basically, but in reverse. This alone can be used as torture in itself, so the "healing" isn't necessarily a thing many would do just for the healing part. Rip open the same wound and heal it over and over again, so on and so forth.

 

It can also heal diseases, at a higher level of course. Diseases and illness are especially worse. You have to go through all the pain and suffering from the disease that you already did all over again in a very short span of time. Depending on how long the victim has been afflicted with a particular disease or (also applies to massive injuries such as missing limbs and such, if that's allowed to go forth) there is a chance the spell will fail, which will lead to a further chance of the victim dying or the injury/illness worsening.

 

 

 

Tiers

 

((as a unit of measurement. This would go along with the original soul puppetry tier system, and would be added to it. I'm leaving materials out, since that can be found in the original thread.))

 

Tier 1

 

-Can heal minor injuries, such as a minor cut. These injuries are typically nuisances and annoyances. Hang nails, paper cuts, splinters, minor non infectious blisters/warts/etc, so on and so forth.

 

Tier 2

 

-Can heal moderate injuries, such as injuries sustained in battle that aren't life threatening, as well as all of the above. Can relieve people of moderate mental issues, such as mild grief, unhappyness, rage, etc. 

 

Tier 3

 

-This tier can heal serious injuries, even being able to regenerate lost, though small, appendages. Fingers, toes, ears, tongue, teeth, etc. The process of regrowing anything which is not meant to regrow is excruciatingly painful and taxing on the victim, as the body must go into overdrive to allow this to happen. This isn't baby clerical magic. This is a dark art, it's not going to be pretty. Deep, though not quite immediately life threatening injuries can be healed now, as well. Though these take time. Not a lot of time, but for the victim it could feel like days, due to having to endure the agony of the injury's infliction constantly for the duration as it heals and stitches together. Larger fractures of bones can be healed, though the puppeteer still is not able to heal broken bones. Mental ailments are more or less the same, but now serious, though healing of insanity can't happen. At this tier, there is a large chance for the process of having to relive one's entire ailment (for example, depression) that they've had for how ever long in a relatively short time of driving them further into insanity. Illnesses can now be healed, such as colds, flu's, so on. Relatively minor, though still annoyances and debilitating illnesses.

 

Tier 4

 

- This tier can hear mortal injuries, and regenerate larger appendages. Entire hands, feet, so on and so forth. Can partially regrow a person's missing limb. To fully regrow this they would need to redo the ritual repeatedly until the desired affect is reached. Mental ailments are the same as tier 3, though now less chance of failure. Unfortunately, the healing of deep insanities such as multiple personalities and schizophrenia are not possible at any tier. Diseases can be healed, but there is a significant chance for failure, depending on how long the afflicted had said disease for. They'll go through the entire process of the disease as they're being healed, over the course of several minutes, from the moment they were infected to the moment they started to become healed from it. This process could kill them, should it fail, or make it much worse.

 

Everything from Tier 3 is more or less upgraded.

 

Tier 5

 

not available. Tier five largely involves various types of dolls, which wouldn't be applicable. You need to have one of the first four tiers of dolls for this to work. It'll work on tier 5, but it'll be more or less a waste of a valuable material.

 

 

End

 

I'm open to suggestions, and hope many come forth. I'm not particularly good at this. I'll add a lore section as to how this was discovered to be possible later, as I'm in school at the moment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Original thread can be found here. 

[Lago 2569]

Harming is much easier than healing. I can harm you with a 500 metre diesel locomotive travelling at 126 mph but I can't heal you with it.

[Swgrclan 2633]

Whether or not it's possible, I don't think another healing magic is necessary. Dark Art magic isn't an archtype that could fit healing into it properly. There had been attempts to seal wounds with things like necromancy, but in the end this proved counter-intuitive as the "healed" wound just became infected or afflicted with rot.

Point being, dark magic doesn't classify very well as a healthy alternative to magic that actually is identified as healing magic. Every magic doesn't need to do everything, as well.

[Demotheus 649]

 

Harming is much easier than healing. I can harm you with a 500 metre diesel locomotive travelling at 126 mph but I can't heal you with it.

 

What you're evading, avoiding, or otherwise forgetting is that this is magic, not a 500 metre diesel locomotive. Magic operates with a few different rules than reality, and so does the realm of LotC. 

 

With that in mind, soul puppetry at it's core is taking someone's soul and binding it to a puppet, and inflicting curses and wounds on them using said puppet as the focal point (or something). Logically, using this same principle of manipulating one's soul and body with a puppet - which already defies the logic you're using in your example - from a distance at a whim, one could possibly do the reverse.

 

That being said, it is significantly harder to heal anything that matters with soul puppetry, as I've stated. There is a significant chance, depending on the various factors I've given, for it to fail and even make things worse - just like actually healing someone via - say - surgery, therapy, etc. In surgery, you can stitch a wound and it could seem fine, but then get infected. In soul puppetry you can try to stitch a mortal wound back together, only for it to do the opposite and rip it open wider.

 

 

Whether or not it's possible, I don't think another healing magic is necessary. Dark Art magic isn't an archtype that could fit healing into it properly. There had been attempts to seal wounds with things like necromancy, but in the end this proved counter-intuitive as the "healed" wound just became infected or afflicted with rot.

Point being, dark magic doesn't classify very well as a healthy alternative to magic that actually is identified as healing magic. Every magic doesn't need to do everything, as well.

 

Why do clerical mages get the ability to harm people with their magic as well? They can make concentrated holy energy to injure people who aren't even unholy, comparable to arcane evocation's attacks but even more potent, and can also heal wounds and illness, and fix the mind.

 

make sense this does not. Clerical magic is an everything magic, in that case. 

 

There should be an "evil" alternative, which isn't even a very good one. By going to a soul puppeteer for healing aid, you're rolling the dice on your life. It'll usually be people who have no other choice, such as those in need of immediate healing or other unholy beings that can't be healed with holy magic. 

 

Plus, you basically have to hand your soul over to a guy who makes puppets. Isn't that bad enough in it of itself???

[Tentoa 1991]

Clerics are powered by a god; they can only hurt unholy beings with their magic or use it to defend themselves or harm the wicked. They are meant to do just that. As well' Wraiths and wights don't need healing; Shades can be healed by clerics but it is exceptionally painful. As well, dark magic users that can't be healed with cleric magic can be healed with druid healing. Furthermore if you practice dark magic and/or are a dark being. You have made the choice to be just that, a dark being. IC actions have IC consequence and this will remove one of the only drawbacks of being a shade, necromancer, lich or whight.

[Demotheus 649]

 

Clerics are powered by a god; they can only hurt unholy beings with their magic or use it to defend themselves or harm the wicked. They are meant to do just that. As well' Wraiths and wights don't need healing; Shades can be healed by clerics but it is exceptionally painful. As well, dark magic users that can't be healed with cleric magic can be healed with druid healing. Furthermore if you practice dark magic and/or are a dark being. You have made the choice to be just that, a dark being. IC actions have IC consequence and this will remove one of the only drawbacks of being a shade, necromancer, lich or whight.

 

I'm not entirely sure, but how is excrutiating pain, and depending on the severity of the ailment and duration they've had it for, chance of death or worsening removing drawbacks from anyone? Also, Liche's are...I don't even think they count in that list. Shades will experience pain no matter what, in that case. They just get to choose their poison now instead of having one option or nothing. Necromancers can be healed with druid magic, as you said, so that doesn't even matter. You've rendered your own point moot there, I think. If I'm correct.

 

And need I remind you about the pain part and chance for failure? Or perhaps the healing process could be used for torture? I can't understand why people are thinking this is removing any sort of draw back. 

 

Also, no responding from me for a little while, gotta go to class now. 

[Tentoa 1991]

Necromancers get that; but no druid WILL heal a necromancer because they defy nature and destroy it. It is an option, but an unavailable one. 

The 'chance of death' isn't going to matter, no one will bother with that at all because its simply an inconvenience that without magic moderation no one will adhere to. No one cares about or roleplays pain correctly, so what does that matter? 

AS for the use of 'torture' I think the magic is actually just sort of built around long-range torture and manipulation. It is about curses and affliction through the use of a puppet so honestly it adds nothing other than a new and honestly over-complicated method of doing what the magic already does.

Not every magic needs to do everything, A dark art is just that, a dark-art. To heal something you need as well to give up something in order to restore. In Clerical magic you sacrifice your own well-being and energy from your patron to heal the wound. In Druid magic you take energy from nature to accelerate the healing process (I believe, druids correct me if not), in Ascended magic you transfer the injury onto yourself and wait for your body to cleanse yourself of the wound. This requires no sacrifice other than pain, and all the other healing magics cause pain anyway.

Honestly it doesn't make sense either, necromancers can piece together flesh but the problem is the taint as Swgr said, so they COULD heal theoretically but its honestly ten times more harmful than it is helpful. As for this, I mean it doesn't make sense how this could just make a wound dissapear in exchange, this is powered by a dark an unnatural energy that manipulates the soul and body, it is very unlikely that this energy could be used to do the reverse as basically it would just hurt- the way I see this being done is to sew the puppet where the wound would be, and honestly that'd just close the wound and solve nothing for internal injuries, this isn't a last ditch this would be more akin to basic first aid which...You could just do basic first aid.

[hellfiazz 878]

What's the point?

[Lago 2569]

With that in mind, soul puppetry at it's core is taking someone's soul and binding it to a puppet, and inflicting curses and wounds on them using said puppet as the focal point (or something). Logically, using this same principle of manipulating one's soul and body with a puppet - which already defies the logic you're using in your example - from a distance at a whim, one could possibly do the reverse.

Magic makes no difference. Smash a vase with fire evo. You can't use fire evo to "unsmash" it. Breaking something just requires you to blindly lash out and alter it in such a way as to impede its function. Fixing it is a lot harder and not always possible with the same tools.

[Tentoa 1991]

Also this is a thing.

So basically it doesn't matter what you want to say the magic can do logically, in reality the puppet just links to the soul and you get to toy around with it using the puppet as a controller so to speak. A big problem is that you use the energy of the soul your playing with to damage something; to restore the body you'd need the soul to be in a heal-able state and since its being meddled with its being touched by the taint of the magic and cannot be used to restore only destroy. And basically, as Hellfiazz said, what's the point? Again, you can always just do first aid or go to a competent alchemist to be healed. That's actually how a lot of dark magic users get by anyway, alchemy.

[hellfiazz 878]

There are already plenty of ways for healing to occur without placing more power in the hands of individuals. Druidism, Shamanism, Clericism, Alchemy, Medicinal Magic and plain old Doctors and Nurses. There's simply no need to place more power in the hands of soul puppeteers, whom already possess a great deal of it.

[The Fact Core 511]

What's the point? I don't want to see puppeteers, running around and using it for the "good". That fits totally not :p

[Joe_Blackman 251]

What's the point? I don't want to see puppeteers, running around and using it for the "good". That fits totally not :p

 

Your avatar suits your statement.

[Demotheus 649]

On My phone. You can use offensively means to heal anyway, such as fire. Burn a wound shut. It has drawbacks, it's notsupposed to be a healing force, but can be. Using this logic and new info, that still leaves many functions out of this magic that I've listed. Restraining it to surface healing.

I don't need this thread to be approved to do basic first aid via magical puppet, in that case. Points noted, thank you all for the feedback!

[Swgrclan 2633]

Hold on now, don't jump the gun. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should, and I don't even think you're allowed to step outside the boundaries of a legitimate, implemented subtype. You either get this approved or nothing. Mechanical standard wouldn't let Clerics start a campfire with holy sparks and necromancy wouldn't let a necromancer will a singular armbone to levitate because these acts would take only a couple steps outside their respective rules.

Don't break what's fine as-is.