[Snow Elf Lore] Iatrocryomancy

[Adran 10]

((Important: the rest of this topic following this post has become a Question&Answer/Debate session. We have covered, I think, the most important points, and I am going to list them at the bottom of this post. Tell me if there's anything i missed. Aside from that, I think this idea is ready for review from or at least input by the Lore Team.))

 

Iatrocryomancy

 

            The Mali’Fenn have a long tradition of ice evocation. After all, who would know more intimately the frozen elements of the mountains than those who live their whole lives among them? In fact, the snow elves are, according to some, the greatest of the hydromancers who specialize in ice, or cryomancers, as they are sometimes called. However, the snow elves were not content simply to master cryomancy; they had to go further, to explore, to invent. They mixed science and magic, studying the effects of cooling the body below normal temperatures.

 

            What they discovered was life-saving and life-changing. Harnessing the powers of ice evocation, they could slow down death dramatically and even preserve the recently dead in the hopes that the monks might revive them. However, they found that ice alone damaged the body in the act of preservation. Ingenious as always, they improvised with various forms of medicinal magic in order to keep the body’s tissues intact. Still...the process is not always perfect, and there are often...side effects. They gave this invaluable combination a name: Iatrocryomancy.

 

          Iatrocryomancy is not exactly a type of magic in and of itself, but more so uses cryomancy and various medical magics together in a specific combination. The goal of iatrocryomancy is generally to delay a dying person/limb’s death or a very recently dead person’s decay for as long as possible, hopefully until advanced medicine of some sort arrives. To practice iatrocryomancy, one must be a proficient cryomancer and have a basic understanding of medicinal magic, and even then it takes years to learn how to use the full potential of iatrocryomancy.

 

            Iatrocryomancy can be applied locally or generally; locally it allows the patient use of their remaining body parts but only works on one area. An iatrocryomancer works by creating ice to surround the area in question. This would ordinarily kill the patient (at least eventually), which is where the medical magic enters play. The medical magic works to prevent ice from damaging (or worse, entering) blood vessels and damaging the body unduly. While ordinarily such a process could potentially cause the cells of the body to die or even burst (do LotC creatures have cells?), an adept iatrocryomancer can control the ice formation using medical magic so as to minimize harm to the body. This is known as a cryolayer.

 

            Now, executed correctly (the magic, not the patient), iatrocryomancy will dramatically slow down a patient’s body processes (either locally or generally) or, even if the body looks “dead,” the decay of the body that would ordinarily prevent any sort of resuscitation. Unfortunately, an iatrocryomancer cannot actually heal such a patient, and once healed, cannot revive them alone. In order to revive the patient, powerful alchemy, a healer (or maybe even pyromancer?), at least two other people with rudimentary knowledge of medicinal magic, or (of course) a monk, is required. The more assistance the patient receives from these sources, the greater their chances of recovery/survival.

 

The Education and Tiering System

 

There is very little information about iatrocryomancy in Athera, as it is an obscure practice, although there is no limit on the number of practitioners. Unless one can find a teacher ((nobody on the server knows it yet, although Adran will learn it after he actually learns cryomancy)), one must make a pilgrimage to the Far North wherein dwell those who discovered the art ((the place doesn't actually exist, just...roleplay like you went there)). If, someday, someone can bring a tome of knowledge concerning the practice back to the South, then it will be easier to learn. Learning iatrocryomancy is no mean feat, even after the prerequisites are met, and it takes several years to become adept.

 

Tier 1: The mage will kill any living tissue on which he practices. He (I will use the masculine pronoun throughout for simplicity's sake, but of course the mage can be of either sex) can, however, preserve dead tissue for short periods of time (say, up to five minutes) until the ice damages the tissue beyond repair.

 

Tier 2: Same as Tier 1, except the mage can go up to ten minutes now, as he has greater control over his evocation.

 

Tier 3: The mage can now preserve small sections of living tissue (say, a hand) for short periods of time (maybe five minutes again?). However, the mage does not yet have fine control over his skills, and will often cause unfortunate side effects, such as loss of motor control, muscle decay, involuntary twitching, etc. ((RP whatever you think would be most interesting)) The mage has increased his mastery of preserving dead tissue as well and can preserve a larger area for a longer time (this will continue to improve for all tiers).

 

Tier 4+: The area, time, and consistency increase and the frequency and intensity of side effects decrease as the mage increases in skill. The mage will continue to improve with practice. At Tier 6+, the mage can preserve an entire body. The mage's skill can increase indefinitely, but keep in mind that he will never be perfect at preventing death or side effects, and he can only maintain the cryolayer for as long as his mana supply holds.

 

Note that this skill can also be manipulated to work on plant matter, although the skill is very different and is not entirely transferable in terms of practice.

 

((Well, this is my second installment in my series of snow elven lore. As before, I will continue to edit this as new ideas come to my attention. Now for the OOC justification. The idea of iatrocryomancy came to me when I was thinking about possible medical applications of ice. The word I made up to describe it comes from the Greek prefix Iatro-, meaning healing, and Cryo-, meaning (loosely) ice. The workings of this magic are based more or less off the theory of Cryonics. Cryonics doesn’t actually work in our world yet, but the addition of magic neatly completes the job that scientists have already done.

 

     ((I’m willing to bet that you are all thinking right now that “Man, this is the most OP powergaming unrealistic idea I’ve ever seen.” But here’s why it’s not. First and foremost, all in all iatrocryomancy takes a very long time to learn and is difficult to practice (students are often taught using recently dead animals). Secondly, it’s actually…not that powerful. Even an expert cryomancer takes at least thirty seconds of deep concentration in order to produce even a rudimentary cryolayer. From that point on, the practitioner has to stay focused on the patient (although it doesn’t require as much mana as other magic because of the very small amount of material produced and because otherwise this would be the most useless thing ever, since by the time the mage had finished creating the cryolayer he’d be exhausted).

 

     ((Moreover, whatever ailed the patient has to be fixed, something that the iatrocryomancer cannot do, as he has to concentrate on maintaining the cryolayer. Then the patient has to be revived, which is possibly the hardest and most uncertain part of the whole process (as rapidly or inexpertly heating up the body could easily cause death). And it can’t work indefinitely; eventually the mage is going to tire himself out and another will have to take over or the patient dies. There is no form of “eternal life” or “auto-stopping death” here. It’s just a delay mechanism to buy time.

 

     ((How to use this magic in roleplay is up to the practitioner to decide. I know that it may not actually end up changing characters' stories, as they can choose not to pk anyway...but they can at least retain their memory this way. Also, the localized form of this can save individual parts of the body...pets...basically anything organic. It's certainly possible that full anesthesia may not be appealing to roleplay. Of course, as with any other medical roleplay, you can emote something going wrong, like a hand turning blue or a blood vessel bursting; the patient always has the final word on what happens. Moreover, after or during recovery, the patient can roleplay various side effects. I do believe this has the potential to be interesting if applied correctly. This seems to be consistent with all other lore, and this lore seems necessary since it is not obvious that it would actually work, as it fails completely in real life. I hope you at least consider this and I would really appreciate constructive feedback. Thanks for reading!))

 

((Thread Summary))

((Thank you again to everyone who has submitted input about this idea. I've taken everything that has been said so far into serious consideration, and here is my conclusion: This idea is acceptable in terms of adhering to the guidelines of lore (in my opinion). Moreover, it doesn't harm roleplay in any serious way. However, it seems to be rather unpopular. This is understandable, as it is by no means a necessary addition to LotC. Moreover, I see increasingly that snow elves and absolutely anything associated with them is not held in high regard. Thus, I'm beginning to doubt that, even if it is accepted, it's all worth it. You have brought up some important criticisms. So, I think that it's time to wrap this up. I'd like to sum up here the arguments for and against this idea.

 

For:

1. Provides a new way to practice medicine, giving a doctor an additional tool or a mage a secondary skill.

2. Gives unique roleplay to anyone involved.

3. Gives the snow elves a little boost with lore and cultural flavor. (The implications here are more important than the statements. For example, the fact that they came up with it through trial and error but also science demonstrates the value they assign to intellect and science, even if it's not clear at first what the practical applications are. The fact that nobody else has yet found out about it shows how isolated they can be. Etc. It's open to interpretation, of course. Moreover, if this is accepted, I can definitely expand the lore to at least give it some detail, which the snow elves sorely lack.)

4. Come on. You know the name sounds cool.

5. Up to a certain point, it is realistic.

6. It's interesting (at least, I think it is).

 

Against:

1. Provides a new way to practice medicine, which is annoying to clerics.

2. Gives unique roleplay to everyone involved, which can be interpreted as too "special snowflake." (Just curious, but does the origin of that phrase have anything to do with snow elves?)

3. Gives the snow elves a little boost with lore and cultural flavor, which is bad because everyone hates snelves.

4. God, what a stupid name (sorry BrandNewKitten).

5. There are points where the bounds of realistic science are stretched.

6. It's not necessary, it's boring, and it's stupid.

 

Tell me if there's anything I neglected to mention there. I appreciate everything said so far; the support has encouraged me to keep working; the criticisms to keep working and tinkering with the idea even after I thought I was done. I think that, unless there is anything else that needs to be said, this is ready for the Lore Team to review.))

[~ Fiend ~ 610]

This... reminds me of something.

 

 

Either way, it seems harmless enough, if not pointless. I've done plenty of healing rp in my day, pretty familiar with it if I say so myself. People who want their characters to live, it literally doesn't matter what you say or do, the hole in their chest is 'but a flesh wound'. And if they want their character to die, well, I wouldn't advise trying to convince them the human popsicle route provides them more interesting rp.

 

So.. y'know, +0.5. It seems like something you could already do with lore as it is, in the whole it can only affect a person's character how they want it to. (Though people being healed tend to be open for suggestion if it fits their opinion that their character should live/die.) It seems like it doesn't need lore in that respect, especially since this sort of thing would probably only be used once in a blue moon.

 

Side note, small thing, maybe, but the monks don't need, or even have any use for bodies, preserved or no. They grab up souls and poof up a new body for them which, if their body is dead, could happen if they were frozen and perfectly preserved or ashes. As for keeping someone alive long enough to get a cleric.. sure, but I'd encourage some death-y side effects, slight memory loss, confusion, possible tissue damage if you don't get a good enough healer. But that's just me.

[Giga 357]

Seems like an interesting idea, though perhaps some Tiers might help give a better view of progression.

E.g: Tier 1, the Snow elf can preserve a minor section of one's body for 5 minutes. 

 

Tier 2, the Snow elf can preserve half a limb of one's body for 10-15 minutes.

[Lark 2226]

Interesting take young padawan

[Hydra 513]

Pls...No.

If you want to be a healer, Join the clerics

if you want to be an ice mage, Become a mage

This is unneeded.

When creating lore you must ask yourself a few questions
Can I do this already?

Why does the server need to have this lore implemented?

 

            The Mali’Fenn have a long tradition of ice evocation. 

They don't... They have one Ice wizard Jax.

 

Also not to mention the amount of mana it would require to pull of this feat. Ice magic requires ALOT of mana t3-5 water mages and its still difficult now you want to keep the ice from returning to the void for a long amount of time, By the end of it the mage would most likely have died from preserving the dead body

[Adran 10]

Pls...No.

1.If you want to be a healer, Join the clerics

if you want to be an ice mage, Become a mage

This is unneeded.

When creating lore you must ask yourself a few questions

2. Can I do this already?

3. Why does the server need to have this lore implemented?

 

 

4. They don't... They have one Ice wizard Jax.

 

5. Also not to mention the amount of mana it would require to pull of this feat. Ice magic requires ALOT of mana t3-5 water mages and its still difficult now you want to keep the ice from returning to the void for a long amount of time, By the end of it the mage would most likely have died from preserving the dead body

1. The clerics require a certain mindset and moral stance...at least I think (don't quote me on that).

2. I honestly don't know...but since it is, as I said, not obvious that you can, I thought I'd go for it.

3. It doesn't. But...it doesn't contradict lore, it doesn't hurt anyone, it's not overpowered, and it could be interesting.

4. Er...I don't think the players on the server don't represent the entire population of Athera...otherwise it would be a very strange world. So, if the Lore Team doesn't object, then it just adds flavor...it doesn't really hurt.

5. I think you overestimate the amount of ice necessary to make this work. And it's not supposed to be easy anyway. As I said, mastery of cryomancy is a prerequisite.

 

 

Seems like an interesting idea, though perhaps some Tiers might help give a better view of progression.

E.g: Tier 1, the Snow elf can preserve a minor section of one's body for 5 minutes. 

 

Tier 2, the Snow elf can preserve half a limb of one's body for 10-15 minutes.

Good idea. Thank you; I'll try to work on that, although it won't work out quite the same as the conventional tiering system.

 

 

 

 Either way, it seems harmless enough, if not pointless. I've done plenty of healing rp in my day, pretty familiar with it if I say so myself. People who want their characters to live, it literally doesn't matter what you say or do, the hole in their chest is 'but a flesh wound'. And if they want their character to die, well, I wouldn't advise trying to convince them the human popsicle route provides them more interesting rp.

 

So.. y'know, +0.5. It seems like something you could already do with lore as it is, in the whole it can only affect a person's character how they want it to. (Though people being healed tend to be open for suggestion if it fits their opinion that their character should live/die.) It seems like it doesn't need lore in that respect, especially since this sort of thing would probably only be used once in a blue moon.

 

Side note, small thing, maybe, but the monks don't need, or even have any use for bodies, preserved or no. They grab up souls and poof up a new body for them which, if their body is dead, could happen if they were frozen and perfectly preserved or ashes. As for keeping someone alive long enough to get a cleric.. sure, but I'd encourage some death-y side effects, slight memory loss, confusion, possible tissue damage if you don't get a good enough healer. But that's just me.

 

Hm...thank you for the input. I've made some changes to try to explain possible uses of it. Also, I didn't get that reference...although cryonics is a technology that pops up in many science fiction stories. Also, I didn't know that about the monks...and i don't think that most other people do, either. I've never seen anyone else roleplay it like that.

 

Also...on a...side note...I've noticed that...I use ellipses...a lot. Maybe...I should stop doing...that.

[Ventusyr 232]

I'm sorry, amma say this shouldn't be implemented.

 

It creates no roleplay for anybody except the mages. If you are freezing someone to preserve them, then they can no longer play that character until they are thawed and healed. I could understand freezing parts of the body to stop bleeding or something like that, but that's sort of already covered by cryomancy by itself. Besides, you say this magic involves healing magics? To my knowledge, magical healing requires deity help. Druids use the Aspects, clerics use Aenguls of all flavors, shamans/orc magic people use the Spirits. There is Medicinal Magic (https://www.lordofthecraft.net/topic/107713-lore-medicinal-magic/), which is a way to use the Void to stop bleeding and stuff. It's not a subtype, per say, but is a way to use Domestic Magic for healing purposes. It doesn't even really heal, it just replaces the need for bandages and casts and stuff.

 

So, overall, creates no roleplay for anybody except users of the magic, just bloats magic lore because we already have magic that is / is better than this. 

[Sky 0]

I truly don't believe we as a server need this sort of lore, considering that if anyone wanted to do something related to healing or the preservation of life, they are met with the whole "Why not become a cleric?" argument, which is flawed in itself but if everyone is left with that alternative, it would be better than a culture of elves (that tend to seclude themselves) getting a new setup like this.

[Adran 10]

I'm sorry, amma say this shouldn't be implemented.

 

It creates no roleplay for anybody except the mages. 1. If you are freezing someone to preserve them, then they can no longer play that character until they are thawed and healed. I could understand freezing parts of the body to stop bleeding or something like that, but that's sort of already covered by cryomancy by itself. Besides, you say this magic involves healing magics? To my knowledge, magical healing requires deity help. Druids use the Aspects, clerics use Aenguls of all flavors, shamans/orc magic people use the Spirits. 2. There is Medicinal Magic (https://www.lordofthecraft.net/topic/107713-lore-medicinal-magic/), which is a way to use the Void to stop bleeding and stuff. It's not a subtype, per say, but is a way to use Domestic Magic for healing purposes. It doesn't even really heal, it just replaces the need for bandages and casts and stuff.

 

3. So, overall, creates no roleplay for anybody except users of the magic, just bloats magic lore because we already have magic that is / is better than this. 

4. I truly don't believe we as a server need this sort of lore, considering that if anyone wanted to do something related to healing or the preservation of life, they are met with the whole "Why not become a cleric?" argument, which is flawed in itself but if everyone is left with that alternative, it would be better than a culture of elves (that tend to seclude themselves) getting a new setup like this.

Thank you both for your input. I appreciate that the community is actually responding to my ideas.

1. Not...actually true, as I stated already. The character can explain how the magic affects the body, from healing to side effects to crazy magico-allergic reactions (pretty sure those don't exist). This works quite similarly to when a healer is working on an unconscious patient. There is actually a great thread on this somewhere, but I don't know exactly where it is. If anyone can link it below, that would be great.

2. Yes, Medicinal Magic is what I was talking about. Yes, I know that that is also not really a magic type in and of itself, but it creates a variety of utilities that, if used creatively, could make iatrocryomancy possible. For example, knowing how to use Arcane Shielding can medicinally can be used to prevent blood vessels from bursting. Just an example, there are lots of options. Creativity is key here. Big thanks to Jade for creating that thread, which is crucial to this thread.

3. See 1.

4. I will repeat: we don't need this. That's true. Like most lore, this is not necessary. But it's also not harmful, and it has the potential to be beneficial. So why not?

[ShameJax 1391]

Really would love to get us some more magic! Speaking as the fallen/arcane snelf here!

[Sky 0]

Why it shouldn't be put in is because that's not how cryonics works. It's not through the use of H2O but other liquids, since you would only be freezing them with water then the body will be harmed in the process. Considering you are saying that it preserves the body, that means there is a healing process in the midst here and that is where I would pull the plug on this idea, simply because that treads into clerical area. The point I was trying to say before was quite simply, why should the snow elves be given the ability to have this healing factor (regardless of how long it takes to learn) when other people have to go through the clerics? My human priest would love to be able to heal (what he views as) God's children, but due to a controversy of Creator Clerics a while ago, there's little chance of that happening. 

[Heero 4077]

I hate to say it but I feel compelled to say my piece here since it feels like I'm the only one seeing the giant pink elephant in the room.

 

Is this lore intended to be used for WW2buff to return from his ~9 month ban? To my understanding he is already frozen in a block of ice Walt Disney style and awaiting to be thawed out at some point in time. I'm just curious if there is any correlation between the two here.

[Adran 10]

1. Why it shouldn't be put in is because that's not how cryonics works. It's not through the use of H2O but other liquids, since you would only be freezing them with water then the body will be harmed in the process. Considering you are saying that it preserves the body, that means there is a healing process in the midst here and that is where I would pull the plug on this idea, simply because that treads into clerical area. 2. The point I was trying to say before was quite simply, why should the snow elves be given the ability to have this healing factor (regardless of how long it takes to learn) when other people have to go through the clerics? My human priest would love to be able to heal (what he views as) God's children, but due to a controversy of Creator Clerics a while ago, there's little chance of that happening. 

 

I hate to say it but I feel compelled to say my piece here since it feels like I'm the only one seeing the giant pink elephant in the room.

 

3. Is this lore intended to be used for WW2buff to return from his ~9 month ban? To my understanding he is already frozen in a block of ice Walt Disney style and awaiting to be thawed out at some point in time. I'm just curious if there is any correlation between the two here.

1. Cryonics doesn't work. That's the point. Also...if you had actually read my original post, you'd know that that is where the medicinal magic comes in. The medicinal magic is there to resolve or at least slow down some of the problems with ice-based cryonics.

 

2. It's not just for snow elves. Nobody on the server knows it and anyone can learn it. It's just that the lore that I wrote has the snow elves inventing it. It's equally easy for any person to learn regardless of race. Just make an rp pilgrimage to the Far North and bring back a book or something from which to learn. Also, note that when I wrote this, I thought Adran was the only active snow elf on the server. Moreover, this is not even healing magic. A mage who knows only iatrocryomancy can heal nothing. He can only postpone death or decay until some form of healing is done by a third party, be it a cleric, a potion, a monk, etc.

 

3. No. When I wrote this, I had no affiliation with any other snow elves, nor did I know any others even still existed on the server. I have just today met the other snow elves, but neither I nor Adran have any agreement of any sort with them other than that snow elf lore needs to be a thing. Also...if you had checked, you'd know I've only been on this server for a month.

 

All I'm asking, guys, is that you look at this with an open mind. Don't go looking for ways to make this sink; think about whether it's a good idea and give constructive feedback based on that. Thank you to everyone for reading and supporting this thread.

[excited 10833]

I'm sorry, amma say this shouldn't be implemented.

 

It creates no roleplay for anybody except the mages. If you are freezing someone to preserve them, then they can no longer play that character until they are thawed and healed. I could understand freezing parts of the body to stop bleeding or something like that, but that's sort of already covered by cryomancy by itself. Besides, you say this magic involves healing magics? To my knowledge, magical healing requires deity help. Druids use the Aspects, clerics use Aenguls of all flavors, shamans/orc magic people use the Spirits. There is Medicinal Magic (https://www.lordofthecraft.net/topic/107713-lore-medicinal-magic/), which is a way to use the Void to stop bleeding and stuff. It's not a subtype, per say, but is a way to use Domestic Magic for healing purposes. It doesn't even really heal, it just replaces the need for bandages and casts and stuff.

 

So, overall, creates no roleplay for anybody except users of the magic, just bloats magic lore because we already have magic that is / is better than this. 

[Adran 10]

 

 

Do you have anything useful to contribute? Otherwise, please just don't say anything at all because I've already addressed that comment, and I'd like to keep this thread streamlined so that people who want to read it actually do instead of tldring it. If you want to provide useful feedback or ask questions that haven't already been answered, then go right ahead. I'm sorry to be so short with you, but since the snow elves are a culture, not a race, then damnit I'm going to give them a culture and I won't have it filibustered.