[Snow Elf Lore] Iatrocryomancy

[TavernLich 324]

People can give whatever feedback/ opinion as they see fit, if you like a response to your idea, expect plain outright answers, yes or no. People can voice their opinion.

Also people aren't trying to sink your idea, they are stating feedback and criticizing it based on how they feel how it would potentially affect the server, etc. This is an idea thread, expect feedback, even if they are just plain outright answers.

People should be able to think of its negatives as well.

That being said, I feel this magic goes into deity magic, as others have stated, as it involves a sort of stopping death, or slowing it down. That sort of level of control should be reserved for those who have quite a bit of restrictions. However, I do agree with you that it would add some interesting RP and a unique take on Snelves. But, you should leave the big league stuff such as slowing down death to the diety Magic users, perhaps make the magic weaker and more like a "first-aid" sort of magic.

I will give you a +.75.

[excited 10833]

Do you have anything useful to contribute? Otherwise, please just don't say anything at all because I've already addressed that comment, and I'd like to keep this thread streamlined so that people who want to read it actually do instead of tldring it. If you want to provide useful feedback or ask questions that haven't already been answered, then go right ahead. I'm sorry to be so short with you, but since the snow elves are a culture, not a race, then damnit I'm going to give them a culture and I won't have it filibustered.

I hardly knew you answered it, for one. But if you want my exact feedback, fine.

It's an interesting concept, but the very things that Hesh said, it doesn't provide much role-play for other people. I honestly don't care whether or not this is accepted or not. Magic won't develop the Mali'fenn culture, the players itself will. Magic is a tool that could enhance it, but at the moment there's little to enhance. As well as the fact that instead of void magic, you could make Wyvrun grant this perhaps as a boon to his priesthood? And devoted, not just a belief that he exists and that you'll do anything for him.

I do not intend to seem rude, again, merely crafting my feedback into a response. 

[Adran 10]

1. People can give whatever feedback/ opinion as they see fit, if you like a response to your idea, expect plain outright answers, yes or no. People can voice their opinion.

Also people aren't trying to sink your idea, they are stating feedback and criticizing it based on how they feel how it would potentially affect the server, etc. This is an idea thread, expect feedback, even if they are just plain outright answers.

People should be able to think of its negatives as well.

2. That being said, I feel this magic goes into deity magic, as others have stated, as it involves a sort of stopping death, or slowing it down. That sort of level of control should be reserved for those who have quite a bit of restrictions. However, I do agree with you that it would add some interesting RP and a unique take on Snelves. But, you should leave the big league stuff such as slowing down death to the diety Magic users, perhaps make the magic weaker and more like a "first-aid" sort of magic.

I will give you a +.75.

1. Somewhat ironically, your response serves only to prove my point. I asked for people to read through the thread before commenting on it. Had you done so, you'd notice that my response was to a person who had actually said nothing but instead bumped a quote to which I had already responded with no added information whatsoever. If people have legitimate reasons to criticize my idea, I am happy to debate and compromise with them. If the Lore Team decides that this idea won't work, I understand. But I won't have people just bothering me for no reason while I'm trying to write. So read the thread. I know now how Jade feels when she has to tell people over and over that snow elves are a culture, not a race.

 

2. Possibly...but it's actually not all that powerful...it doesn't work in every situation. If someone's head is blown off, then no iatrocryomancer can do anything for him. Secondly, slowing down death is something that you can do mundanely, but this just tackles the problem directly. It's a somewhat objective distinction, so it's kinda up to the Lore Team.

 

1. I hardly knew you answered it, for one. 2. But if you want my exact feedback, fine.

It's an interesting concept, but the very things that Hesh said, 3. it doesn't provide much role-play for other people. I honestly don't care whether or not this is accepted or not. 4. Magic won't develop the Mali'fenn culture, 5. the players itself will. Magic is a tool that could enhance it, but at the moment there's little to enhance. 6. As well as the fact that instead of void magic, you could make Wyvrun grant this perhaps as a boon to his priesthood? And devoted, not just a belief that he exists and that you'll do anything for him.

7. I do not intend to seem rude, again, merely crafting my feedback into a response. 

1. Sorry, but if you have any questions about the way I responded to that response, then quote me and make specific numbered points like I'm doing, or find some other way to organize it.

 

2. Yes, I do.

 

3. I already talked about this twice. If you think that that is grounds enough to stop this from passing, then tell clerics and surgeons that they are not allowed to practice, especially on unconscious patients. This has the potential to be just as interactive as any other kind of medical roleplay, at least the locally applied version, which should be the most commonly used one anyway, and maybe even the general version if you're creative. I'm still looking for that great medical roleplay thread that I saw; I'll try to post it as soon as I can.

((Edit: I finally found it here! Of course it was by Jade. I should have known. Thank you for all your amazing guides, Jade. They've been a lot of help!))

 

4. Why not? Every little bit helps.

 

5. It's a lot easier to develop a culture when you have lore-based stuff off of which to build. Unlike other cultures, we really don't have anything official and I simply wish to see a basic cultural backstory. Moreover, since we are a divided people, we have no way to form a coherent culture. Thus, taking with us fragments of a past culture allows for us to roleplay cultural diffusion, cultural clashes, cultural evolution, etc.

 

6. I unfortunately know little about religious magic, having spent most of my time looking at the void stuff. However, if the Lore Team sees fit to replace the void idea with Wyvurn, then so be it.

 

7. You misunderstand. The type of post you are making is just that for which I am looking. I want posts with valuable feedback, criticisms, and questions. That allows me to develop my idea further. What I wanted to stop was the type of post made in the quote that I showed you. Quoting a post to which I have already responded does no good to anyone unless you explain what it is you want to discuss. That type of post just comes across (at least to me) as hostile and obnoxious. But thank you for fixing that. I'm trying to keep an open mind here. Forgive me for snapping, but I'm only I'm only working on a project that is trying to make something fun and harmless and I've gotten enough responses saying "Shut up, everyone hates snelves" or the like.

[Hydra 513]

 

Really would love to get us some more magic! Speaking as the fallen/arcane snelf here!

 

Jax... No snelf magic for you

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[bickando 3385]

It sounds nice, but it's pointless. It just adds needless intricacy that would make the culture opaque and seem more exclusive, not to mention the fact that it juts into two schools of lore.

[Ventusyr 232]

Thank you both for your input. I appreciate that the community is actually responding to my ideas.

1. Not...actually true, as I stated already. The character can explain how the magic affects the body, from healing to side effects to crazy magico-allergic reactions (pretty sure those don't exist). This works quite similarly to when a healer is working on an unconscious patient. There is actually a great thread on this somewhere, but I don't know exactly where it is. If anyone can link it below, that would be great.

2. Yes, Medicinal Magic is what I was talking about. Yes, I know that that is also not really a magic type in and of itself, but it creates a variety of utilities that, if used creatively, could make iatrocryomancy possible. For example, knowing how to use Arcane Shielding can medicinally can be used to prevent blood vessels from bursting. Just an example, there are lots of options. Creativity is key here. Big thanks to Jade for creating that thread, which is crucial to this thread.

3. See 1.

4. I will repeat: we don't need this. That's true. Like most lore, this is not necessary. But it's also not harmful, and it has the potential to be beneficial. So why not?

 

1. That's conversation RP. The difference between this cryogenically freezing stuff and healing RP, even if the subject is unconscious, is that the healed subject also emotes the changes affecting their body, or complications of the wound the healer did not originally see. Then, afterwards, the cleric/shaman/druid is tired, and their subject can do as they see fit with them, whether pamper, kick, or simply walk away and ignore them. Mutual RP, loads of fun, everyone goes home happy and with most of their characters' limbs intact. This? You describe side effects, but those come after the thawing process. The process of freezing someone would be instantaneous (at least, according to popular sci-fi and fantasy. If you could provide an example of this being used in an RP scenario, that would be groovy :) ), so the subject would only nod, struggle, or simply lie unconscious while the mage/mages alakazambed ice around him. Its a neat concept, to be sure, but not much RP takes place during and directly after the magical event. 

 

2. I'm sorry, not seeing how arcane shielding can be used for that. You'd have to make billions of tiny shields or something around the individual cells, and this is LOTC, I don't think we have cellular theory yet :P

 

3. Okay, did so!

 

4. While its true lore on fauna and flora isn't really necessary, magic lore is its own thing. All lore on magic that is accepted was necessary before people started using it because it has prominent differences. If there is something that is exactly like necromancy and has no unique qualities, for example, it will get denied. Aengulic evocation also got denied, because it was pretty much evocation, just with a source other than the Void. This magic describes some sort of healing (or anti-injury? anti-damaging?) agent using the Void, which treads on Holy ground. 

[Haldon 72]

Looking at this from the actual technical side of it, you would be more likely to kill your patient or make their condition worse with this then to preserve them. The forming ice crystals would destroy the cells in the affected area of you were to 'freeze' them. The vital organs would begin to shut down once the temperature goes below a certain point and the body can no longer produce enough heat to keep them functioning properly. If you were to focus this on extremities, the blood vessels would most likely constrict and focus on keeping the vital organs supplied, resulting in damage to the limbs if this were to go on for long enough which could lead to gangrenous tissue. But basically because this wouldn't be able to be done with just the ice magic, that would have to make this a special healing magic just for the snow elves. This is just my personal two cents, but we have plenty of options for healing as it is, and ones which don't involve the healer having to fix up the conditions caused by magic aimed to help them ;)

[Adran 10]

It sounds nice, but it's pointless. 1. It just adds needless intricacy that would make the culture opaque and seem more exclusive, 2. not to mention the fact that it juts into two schools of lore.

 

1. That's the beauty of it: it's not at all exclusive. Anyone at all can learn it, and nobody knows it yet on the server. It allows for cultural diffusion and interaction.

 

2. What do you mean by "juts?" It doesn't interfere with anyone else's magic. In fact, you could say the same for the medicinal magic off of which this is partially based, and that seems to have been accepted just fine.

 

That's conversation RP. 1. The difference between this cryogenically freezing stuff and healing RP, even if the subject is unconscious, is that the healed subject also emotes the changes affecting their body, or complications of the wound the healer did not originally see. Then, afterwards, the cleric/shaman/druid is tired, and their subject can do as they see fit with them, whether pamper, kick, or simply walk away and ignore them. Mutual RP, loads of fun, everyone goes home happy and with most of their characters' limbs intact. This? 2. You describe side effects, but those come after the thawing process. 3. The process of freezing someone would be instantaneous (at least, according to popular sci-fi and fantasy. 4. If you could provide an example of this being used in an RP scenario, that would be groovy :) ), so the subject would only nod, struggle, or simply lie unconscious while the mage/mages alakazambed ice around him. Its a neat concept, to be sure, but not much RP takes place during and directly after the magical event. 

 

5. I'm sorry, not seeing how arcane shielding can be used for that. You'd have to make billions of tiny shields or something around the individual cells, and this is LOTC, I don't think we have cellular theory yet :P

 

Okay, did so!

 

6. While its true lore on fauna and flora isn't really necessary, magic lore is its own thing. All lore on magic that is accepted was necessary before people started using it because it has prominent differences. If there is something that is exactly like necromancy and has no unique qualities, for example, it will get denied. Aengulic evocation also got denied, because it was pretty much evocation, just with a source other than the Void. 7. This magic describes some sort of healing (or anti-injury? anti-damaging?) agent using the Void, which treads on Holy ground. 

 

1. The patient can still do that, and, as I explained, there are plenty of situations in which the patient does not have to be unconscious anyway.

 

2. I also described complicaitons that can ensue, such as a blood vessel bursting, a limb turning blue, or even the ice getting through the mage's defenses and entering parts of the body it shouldn't. Moreover, the patient can often be conscious and able to talk and react. Oh, come to think of it, another application of this could be to numb a patient before surgery to reduce pain, but that wouldn't really facilitate rp, so I'm not going to go into that more.

 

3. I will restate. Had you actually read the lore, you would have noticed that it takes even an experienced mage thirty seconds to form a basic cryolayer, and that's not always enough anyway. Also, any science fiction story that has instantaneous freezing is either plain wrong or has some sort of ridiculous technology, because freezing the body that quickly would cause basically all the cells to burst.

 

4. I will work on providing a good example like the ones Jade used in her healing emotes guides. Good idea.

 

5. So, this is where the departure from reality really occurs. Up until the point where we need medicinal magic, this is based firmly in science. The addition of medicinal magic is the one tricky part of this lore and requires the biggest suspension of disbelief on the part of the reader. Basically, my idea is to combine various ideas expressed by Jade in such a way that it almost makes sense. The issue here is that cryonic theory is not really complete in real life, so we can't be exactly certain how to make it work here either. It requires faith and creativity to make it seem feasible. The arcane shielding, for instance, could be used for big things (major blood vessels, things like that). It's up to the practitioner to determine how to use medicinal magic best. Also, the snow elf mages weren't entirely clear on what they were doing when they started to invent this. They just tried different things until it began to sort of work. You are entirely right. This is the one part of iatrocryomancy with which I am not happy, and there's just no way to make it perfect. But LotC is a fantasy world. No other magic makes real biological sense anyway. (What part of the brain is used for summoning stuff from the void? If someone's head gets blown up, how do the monks restore it intact with almost all of its knowledge and memories? How do clerics even work--magic light just heals stuff?)

 

6. Yup. Magic lore is necessary in order to practice magic. But few magic types are really necessary at all. Frost witches? Not necessary, but interesting. Contract magic? So obscure that it doesn't really impact that many people, not necessary. But interesting. Soul puppetry? Not necessary. Interesting nonetheless. This is analogous.

 

7. So does medicinal magic. But that was accepted.

 

1. Looking at this from the actual technical side of it, you would be more likely to kill your patient or make their condition worse with this then to preserve them. The forming ice crystals would destroy the cells in the affected area of you were to 'freeze' them. 2. The vital organs would begin to shut down once the temperature goes below a certain point and the body can no longer produce enough heat to keep them functioning properly. If you were to focus this on extremities, the blood vessels would most likely constrict and focus on keeping the vital organs supplied, resulting in damage to the limbs if this were to go on for long enough which could lead to gangrenous tissue. 3. But basically because this wouldn't be able to be done with just the ice magic, that would have to make this a special healing magic just for the snow elves. 4. This is just my personal two cents, but we have plenty of options for healing as it is, and ones which don't involve the healer having to fix up the conditions caused by magic aimed to help them ;)

 

1. That's where the medicinal magic comes in. Also, the ice does not necessarily destroy the cells, since it doesn't need to be placed everywhere. Just in enough places to spread the cold far enough. For instance, using only a little very cold ice can allow for the same absorption of heat.

 

2. The vital organs are supposed to shut down or at least slow dramatically. And no, it won't. The purpose of cryonics isn't to keep the body functioning properly. It's to stop the problems that arise from when the body isn't functioning. Very little can happen to anything in the body if the cold is distributed correctly. And yes, the organs shutting down is a serious problem. But not immediately life-threatening. For instance, if the heart stops, blood stops flowing. But since everything else in the body is moving so slowly, it won't need blood for a while anyway. And that's where the advanced medicine comes in. To revive a patient, you need to make the organs all start functioning more or less simultaneously. That's not going to be easy, and that's one of the things this magic is used for.

 

3. So, once again, had you actually read through the thread, you would have noticed that a. This is not just ice magic, it also adds other stuff, and b. it's...still not just for snow elves.

 

4. Yup. That's the point. A perfect form of healing is actually kind of boring. That's why healing rp is not always fun when someone just "pours healing light from their hands that fixes literally everything." Healing that causes problems, on the other hand, has real rp potential.

 

Thank you for responding, everyone, and I hope that I addressed the issues to which you referred with sufficient clarity.

[Haldon 72]

It will damage those cells. I believe cryogenics use some sort of chemical to stop the formation of ice crystals which cause this damage. How would this chemical be compensated for with the use of this magic?

I should also point out that cryogenics are only used on recently deceased persons, not a live individual. If the heart is frozen to the point where it stops beating, that person is then clinically deceased. As it will if you freeze the brain, because all of those involuntary muscles responces that are controlled by the brain will stop, so the heart will stop beating and the lungs won't work etc, again making a person clinically dead. If you decide that only the heart would be frozen as it looked like you were implying, not sure, then the brain would start to die as well, as if blood flow stops so does the flow of oxygen to all the cells which is required to keep them alive. Without oxygen, a cell will die.

So upon unfreezing a patient, don't expect the heart to instantly start to beat again or brain function to return to normal. The freezing process would have killed the patient is what I'm getting at here, then it's basically off to a trip to the monks for revival rendering this kinda.. pointless. You could try to resuscitate, but keep in mind that patients don't always respond to that stimulus either.

We as a society are currently unable to revive patients from the state, so how are we going to do it on lotc where we are much less medically and technologically advanced.

I'm not trying to pick on your lore, just letting you know a few things to consider with it.

[Adran 10]

1. It will damage those cells. I believe cryogenics use some sort of chemical to stop the formation of ice crystals which cause this damage. How would this chemical be compensated for with the use of this magic?

2. I should also point out that cryogenics are only used on recently deceased persons, not a live individual. 3. If the heart is frozen to the point where it stops beating, that person is then clinically deceased. As it will if you freeze the brain, because all of those involuntary muscles responces that are controlled by the brain will stop, so the heart will stop beating and the lungs won't work etc, again making a person clinically dead. 4. If you decide that only the heart would be frozen as it looked like you were implying, not sure, then the brain would start to die as well, as if blood flow stops so does the flow of oxygen to all the cells which is required to keep them alive. Without oxygen, a cell will die.

5. So upon unfreezing a patient, don't expect the heart to instantly start to beat again or brain function to return to normal. 6. The freezing process would have killed the patient is what I'm getting at here, then it's basically off to a trip to the monks for revival rendering this kinda.. pointless. You could try to resuscitate, but keep in mind that patients don't always respond to that stimulus either.

7. We as a society are currently unable to revive patients from the state, so how are we going to do it on lotc where we are much less medically and technologically advanced.

8. I'm not trying to pick on your lore, just letting you know a few things to consider with it.

 

1. (I'm making this extra big because it's extra important) Well...this is the part on which, as I said, I'm kinda vague and uncertain. One of the main parts of cryogenics that damages the cells most is when the patient is frozen really quickly. I feel like, with medicinal magic and a slow freezing process, you can...with a little leap of faith (because I don't even know if LotC races have cells or not) and a little creativity sort of justify it not irreparably damaging the cells. I do, however, agree that the process should cause some damage to the cells. That could cause a number of outcomes, including weakness, memory loss, or even death. However, I will restate that none of the other magics makes biological sense either. For example, "What part of the brain is used to summon matter from the void? How does it work?" LotC and really all fantasy and science fiction universes require what is called a willing suspension of disbelief; that is to say, if there are some plot points that are a little fuzzy...that's okay. I could go on to point out a number of things about LotC that make even less sense, such as "Why do some people die forever when the monks are able to resurrect anyone?" But there's no point. As long as it's fun to roleplay, there's nothing wrong. (By the way, even if you do have some answer for the question about the monks, there will be some awfully strange statistics to explain. Many people will die on their first death, yet some will die hundreds of times without actually dying.)

 

2. Not actually true; there are some strange people who decide, when they have a terminal illness, that they want to go into cryogenic storage immediately.

 

3. Yup. That would be true if we lived in a world where cryogenic revival was not possible. That's the difference between our world and LotC that I'm trying to establish. They wouldn't be called clinically dead anymore. Just...resting. But that's a pedantic and not very relevant point anyway.

 

4. So, this is the entire point of cryogenics. An ordinary person who dies, say, from blood loss, will have his cells die off one by one until one or more of his vital organs stops functioning. The goal here is that, by changing the temperature, we slow down all body processes dramatically. This means that cells don't die immediately because they simply can't do anything. And yes, I was implying that the heart stops, which, as I said, would cause blood flow to stop to the other organs. But they don't need it. They can't do anything. And that includes dying. Note, when I say they can't do it, what I really mean is that they can only do it really slowly, which is one of the many reasons this process has a time limit.

 

5. That's why you need outside medical help. Since realistic technology is unable to revive cryopatients, let's try unrealistic technology: clerics, for instance. Or alchemists.

 

6. See, the patient is only dead for some definitions of the word dead. And besides, since people can perma-die...clearly, the monks are imperfect. It seems reasonable to assume that a less dead body is easier to restore than no body at all. Either I'm right about that, or someone needs to explain to all those people who roleplay monks not being perfect or taking bodies back to the Cloud Temple that they're all wrong. Because I've sure as hell gotten yelled at for roleplaying that the monks even revived me once. I mean, why else would I wake up in Cloud Temple with nothing and no memory of recent events? Also, it seems reasonable to assume that since clerics have magical all-healing light, they can perform operations as simple as making a heart start beating, something that can be done without magic anyway. I understand that if people don't want their characters to die, they won't die. But the same goes for clerics. RP is RP, even if it doesn't affect game mechanics.

 

7. Well. We in LotC are not less technologically advanced; we're differently technologically advanced. Magic is a wonderful technology and is far more powerful than any modern-day technology except possibly the nuclear ones and the internet.

 

8. I understand that, and I'm totally willing to talk to people who think that this could be improved or have questions to ask about it. Thank you for your input.

 

Summary: (Extra big again, extra important again, for the 90% of you who won't actually read anything else I've written so far) This idea is mostly accurate by real world standards, and moreover, you...can't attack this for being unrealistic by real world standards anyway. LotC is separated from the real world not just by technology but by imagination.

[Fimlin 1696]

No special snowflake magic is needed for the snow elves, nations don't get magic if they want it and the snow elves can't even call themselves a nation, nor a race.

[Haldon 72]

The point I'm trying to make is that it /is/ unrealistic by our own real world/earth standards. Currently we do not possess the technology or medical knowledge required to actually revive a person in this state. Small tissue or blood samples can be frozen and thawed out again, but put simply, something as large and complex as a human or humanoid body is much more difficult to thaw where it won't cause more and most likely irreparable damage. As to if they would have cells, yes they would as the races are all organic.

 

Once the patient is frozen, they are clinically deceased. While yes, their cells won't all immediately die and that does take time, their heart no longer beats. Upon thawing you would have a deceased person, with cellular damage caused by that thawing process. The body would need to be re-warmed and resuscitation performed (For a healthy patient the chances of being revived by CPR are less then 20%, a wounded one much less so). If the patient is successfully revived then there are also chances of damage to the brain. There would be no oxygen supply after the patient had been thawed, so there is a decent chance they might not even wake up afterwards.

 

I actually play a cleric character, and starting hearts and keeping those internal systems operating is not something in our repertoire. That would fall to the temple monks. The monks are there to revive your characters because if they weren't we would all be rolling a new one every few days. No-one would participate in any events or even have the will to leave their homes from the fear of being killed. Also, no-one can actually tell you to perma kill your character.

 

You mentioned under point 4 that cryo will stop a person from dying. It may stop the cells from dying, but the person is dead. The body doesn't move in slow motion, it actually stops all together. The heart won't beat something like once a year etc, it will stop.

[hellfiazz 878]

Both extracellular ice and intracellular ice cause cell damage and cell death for certain in the latter's case. Unless you're stopping ice forming round the cells, or somehow shielding the individual cells, then cell damage and cell death is inevitable, making the problem worse. And for that you'd need a cryoprotectant, which are toxic, or both cellular theory and a mind that can comprehend things on cellular levels and continue to use arcane shielding on each one of those tiny incomprehensible microstructures. And that's not even the worst bit for vital organs. Like Haldon said, a heart that is not beating, a brain that is not functioning, is a dead patient. No two ways about it.

Basically the premise of this magic is inviable because the result could not be achieved even through magic, aside from magic that can resurrect.

[WuHanXianShi14 0]

Maybe, for once

The snelves can try to develop their culture through RP

Instead of trying to get special lore accepted for them

[Adran 10]

1. No special snowflake magic is needed for the snow elves, nations don't get magic if they want it and the snow elves can't even call themselves a nation, nor a race.

1. Sorry, but...it's not for a nation, it's not for the snow elves...the only way it relates to snow elves is that they invented it.

1. The point I'm trying to make is that it /is/ unrealistic by our own real world/earth standards. Currently we do not possess the technology or medical knowledge required to actually revive a person in this state. Small tissue or blood samples can be frozen and thawed out again, but put simply, something as large and complex as a human or humanoid body is much more difficult to thaw where it won't cause more and most likely irreparable damage. 2. As to if they would have cells, yes they would as the races are all organic.

 

Once the patient is frozen, they are clinically deceased. 3. While yes, their cells won't all immediately die and that does take time, their heart no longer beats. Upon thawing you would have a deceased person, with cellular damage caused by that thawing process. 4. The body would need to be re-warmed and resuscitation performed (For a healthy patient the chances of being revived by CPR are less then 20%, a wounded one much less so). If the patient is successfully revived then there are also chances of damage to the brain. There would be no oxygen supply after the patient had been thawed, so there is a decent chance they might not even wake up afterwards.

 

5. I actually play a cleric character, and starting hearts and keeping those internal systems operating is not something in our repertoire. That would fall to the temple monks. 6. The monks are there to revive your characters because if they weren't we would all be rolling a new one every few days. 7. No-one would participate in any events or even have the will to leave their homes from the fear of being killed. 8. Also, no-one can actually tell you to perma kill your character.

 

9. You mentioned under point 4 that cryo will stop a person from dying. It may stop the cells from dying, but the person is dead. 10. The body doesn't move in slow motion, it actually stops all together. The heart won't beat something like once a year etc, it will stop.

1. It is unrealistic. You're right. But there is a lot about it that is accurate, and there's nothing more I can do about the rest except wait for the Lore Team.

2. Thanks. I didn't know that. I was somewhat confused because I've received replies from people telling me that biology in LotC doesn't work like the real-life version.

3. Yup, that's part of the fun.

4. Meh. I feel like...if you have a person doing conventional resuscitation while a cleric fixes things that he actually can, we can increase that percentage. Of course, it can't be perfect. But it doesn't have to be impossible.

5. Hm...hadn't actually realized that; thank you for telling me. However, since, as you say, resuscitation can be performed, I see no reason why it can't be supported by a cleric (for example, the cleric could prevent the organs from malfunctioning after they begin to work.

6. Yup.

7. Yup.

8. Yup. You misunderstand me again. I was asking in terms of lore, not game mechanics. The monks revive people nearly all the time for characters who are played by real people...except not always, and not for everyone else. Why?

9. Again, it depends on your definition of "dead." It's all about perspective here.

10. Um...this is obvious. The major processes in the body stop (the heart stops pumping, the spleen stops filtering blood, the stomach stops digesting food), but down inside the cells, they're just moving reeeeeeaaaaallllyy ssssllllooooowwwwwllllyyyyyyy. Unless they're frozen solid, which is bad.

1. Both extracellular ice and intracellular ice cause cell damage and cell death for certain in the latter's case. Unless you're stopping ice forming round the cells, or somehow shielding the individual cells, then cell damage and cell death is inevitable, making the problem worse. And for that you'd need a cryoprotectant, which are toxic, or both cellular theory and a mind that can comprehend things on cellular levels and continue to use arcane shielding on each one of those tiny incomprehensible microstructures. And that's not even the worst bit for vital organs. 2. Like Haldon said, a heart that is not beating, a brain that is not functioning, is a dead patient. No two ways about it.

3. Basically the premise of this magic is inviable because the result could not be achieved even through magic, aside from magic that can resurrect.

1. Well, we're talking about extracurricular here. Cell damage is a given. That's why it only works for short periods of time.

2. Not...quite. There's a thing called heart failure. The heart stops, several major parts of the brain begin to shut down, but the patient is still alive. In this scenario, the patient is not completely "brain-dead." Brain death only really occurs when the brain has stopped functioning and the individual cells have shut down. But we're not letting them shut down. Just stopping for a while.

3. Hm...we'll let the Lore Team decide that. But that's just the generalized version of it.

1. Maybe, for once

2. The snelves can try to develop their culture through RP

Instead of trying to get special lore accepted for them

1. Stop trying to associate me with the rest of the snow elves. I am not in any way affiliated with them nor am I responsible for their past actions.

2. You try developing a culture when your people are divided, have almost no official lore, and are universally reviled.

 

Summary: In short, no. This is not perfect. I never said it was (actually, I might have, but if so, then I rescind that now). There are parts of it that don't entirely hold up under real-world scrutiny. But...real-world scrutiny? In a world where bathing in a pool of strange liquid dramatically changes your DNA in a way that completely changes your appearance but is not harmful at all? In a world where the undead, whose bodies have stopped functioning...still function? In a world where willing suspension of disbelief is a prerequisite? Up to the Lore Team.