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Conduits of Enlightenment: Co-Op Edition


GodEmperorFlam
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Conduits of Enlightenment: Co-Op Edition

LM CLARIFICATION, PLEASE READ JISTUMA (FIGHT ME):

Spoiler

This part of the lore was originally denied because it was “similar” to SHAMANISM’s spirit walk and mental magic, which need I remind you is literally overlapping with most other magics due to there being a spirit for essentially everything? And with the small amount of shamans who generally stick to their own group, this lore piece would allow for meditative experiences to be used more. There’s literally no downside to letting people use this.

 

MENTAL MAGIC - “This somewhat offers a backdoor into the concept without offering any negative effects, so for the time being we concluded it would be best kept a solo thing!” - Pandan. No, this is vastly different from mental magic! The only thing that would be close to this in mental magic is cataleptic illusions. Which need I remind you is able to be forced on people, along with being used to trick the target into believing some complex illusion. This is DIFFERENT as

1) The caster can’t force this on anyone and anyone who is willing can leave the meditation at anytime.

2) The caster is unable to forcibly remove/create stimuli directly in the person’s mind or do anything mental magic related such as look at memories or read thoughts.

3) The caster is unable to use this to really do anything harmful such as torturing the secondary person or anything along those lines as a person is unable to feel pain.

 

Think of this like a virtual reality room which can be used to create anything that is imaginable for the caster and secondary person to experience. From showcasing a fireball to creating a forest for an alchemy teacher to showcase alchemical ingredients to the secondary person. Sky’s the limit.

 

Cataleptic illusions are like an acid trip where the caster is able to blur the lines between reality and fantasy for the target and cause them to believe illusions with more ease (as they've been lulled into a sleep-like state), while being generally unaware that this is going on. And even if they do somehow figure out what is going on, they are unable to stop a mental mage without throwing up a barrier, which is fully able to be broken through by a mental mage who is high tiered enough. Not to mention mental magic is able to read thoughts, look at memories, et cetera.

 

Background

Link to the original lore piece: https://www.lordofthecraft.net/forums/topic/121243-lore-conduits-of-enlightenment/

The mage sat across from his student, taking a few breathes to focus himself. As his mind cleared, he reached out through the void towards his student. However, unlike the process of mental magic, he did not fully “connect” with his student’s mind. Instead, a less direct link was temporarily formed. Upon doing this, the mage then entered a new state of meditation. It didn’t take long for the experienced caster to once again find himself within the realm where he had spent much of his time recently. A realm that could be changed with a single thought, excellent for all sorts of teaching experiences. However, unlike the previous times where he was alone, the link that was established with his student allowed for the student’s consciousness to be brought along.

 

Ability

Essentially, this is a fix for the lore that booklight originally wrote, as it was meant to be able to be done with another willing person. All red lines and drawbacks that were originally proposed will be used for this. If this is accepted, then the conduits of enlightenment is now able to bring a secondary person in with the person meditating. This is done by reaching out to another person's mind through the void and creating a link. This link is not a full connection as a mental mage is capable of doing and only allows for a small part of both the caster's and secondary person's conscience to be connected.  This does not require much thought and only requires someone to be able to connect to the void and do what a Tier Zero person in mental magic is able to do (look for a mind in the void). Those who don't know how to connect to the void will be unable to perform this.

 

This is not an entirely new magic, but more akin to a magic ritual (such as learning the process for creating a portal).

 

Red Line (Copied from original lore + a new one).

- You cannot force others to meditate in this state with you.

- You must have a clear state of mind while doing this as it takes a while ICly, so you cannot enter this when being tortured, under much stress, injured, etc.

- You cannot actually harm or kill people in this "lucid dream" like state, you can feel slight touch, but you cannot actually feel pain as it’s not meant to be aggressive or harmful in any way. Though, it is possible to train or spar.

- Nothing while in the meditation will affect the real world, only the world you think up in your mind can you change. Though when enlightened which is a permanent thing you tend feel slightly more mellow, as this is for non aggressive purposes, and people.

- Can't use this to read thoughts, look at memories, or do anything that a mental mage would be able to do to gain insight on another person.

 

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I'll never try hard core drugs in real life, so why not in a fantasy role play server in minecraft? Both of them are totally non-life ruining.  +1 from me.

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But you can do this with mental magic and casting a cataleptic illusion on someone. The only difference I see here is that it is just a less powerful version of this.

 

Might I suggest you propose this as a 'household magic' version of mental magic? It seems to fit the criteria already, and doing so would explain why it is 'like mental magic but isn't mental magic', too. Plus, it won't need a whole magic slot, either.

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2 hours ago, Mephistophelian said:

But you can do this with mental magic and casting a cataleptic illusion on someone. The only difference I see here is that it is just a less powerful version of this.

 

Might I suggest you propose this as a 'household magic' version of mental magic? It seems to fit the criteria already, and doing so would explain why it is 'like mental magic but isn't mental magic', too. Plus, it won't need a whole magic slot, either.

The cataleptic illusion inherently works differently than this "addition" is intended to, more akin to the Spirit walk that it was originally compared to in the first lore piece. That being said, I would not be opposed to placing this "addition" (NOT the original lore piece, only the co-op part) into the household magics, although even if this was accepted without going there, it's specifically stated to be a ritual and doesn't need a magic slot, as it's just an "addition" to booklight's original lore piece in which the ability to do this super meditation is able to be done by anyone.

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So basically, you can play DND with your other mage friends in Lord of the Craft now if this lore is accepted?

 

I mean it can't hurt, it's not  combative magic, I like it.

 

+1

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I have to say I really disagree with the idea of adding the Void into this. In the original lore this was meant to be a spiritual, inexplicable process. One of my characters is an avid user of the conduits and by randomly adding the Void into this, you would make it impossible for him to invite people along because he is not a mage in the traditional sense. This was never a voidal art, and was only ever loosely connected with it because it was not dark nor deific and required one to empty their mana.

 

That is not to say that I disagree with the concept of allowing another along in the conduits of enlightenment. It was the main point driven across originally which was to allow for one to create RP out of it. Should it be allowed, the conduits would be a means to allow yourself to create whatever interesting event you wish for another person, which I love. Just don't unnecessarily restrict it to Voidal, which the conduits never were.

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1 hour ago, Gladuos said:

I have to say I really disagree with the idea of adding the Void into this. In the original lore this was meant to be a spiritual, inexplicable process. One of my characters is an avid user of the conduits and by randomly adding the Void into this, you would make it impossible for him to invite people along because he is not a mage in the traditional sense. This was never a voidal art, and was only ever loosely connected with it because it was not dark nor deific and required one to empty their mana.

 

That is not to say that I disagree with the concept of allowing another along in the conduits of enlightenment. It was the main point driven across originally which was to allow for one to create RP out of it. Should it be allowed, the conduits would be a means to allow yourself to create whatever interesting event you wish for another person, which I love. Just don't unnecessarily restrict it to Voidal, which the conduits never were.

While I agree with you that it shouldn't be restricted, another reason for its denial originally was that it didn't belong to any sort of magic to explain why it could be used with multiple people.

Spoiler

"Basicly because it's  not really magic, it's meditation. Each person has a different meditation, and you can't really connect eachother without the use of magic. If this was part of a type of magic, then it could be accepted. Or you could influence someone's meditation or help them reach it." -Jistuma on the second page of the original lore piece.

 

Pushing it into voidal with the only requirement really being having learned how to connect to the void and establish a link without having to know any sort of magic is rather free in my opinion and a quick fix. If you can think of a better way to have it done without the person knowing any form of magic/creating an entire new form of magic, feel free to PM me with a solution.

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18 minutes ago, The Pink Lion said:

While I agree with you that it shouldn't be restricted, another reason for its denial originally was that it didn't belong to any sort of magic to explain why it could be used with multiple people.

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"Basicly because it's  not really magic, it's meditation. Each person has a different meditation, and you can't really connect eachother without the use of magic. If this was part of a type of magic, then it could be accepted. Or you could influence someone's meditation or help them reach it." -Jistuma on the second page of the original lore piece.

 

Pushing it into voidal with the only requirement really being having learned how to connect to the void and establish a link without having to know any sort of magic is rather free in my opinion and a quick fix. If you can think of a better way to have it done without the person knowing any form of magic/creating an entire new form of magic, feel free to PM me with a solution.

 

The thing is that the originality of the whole thing goes straight out the window when it's put into Voidal. It's nothing but a more limited mental magic at that point. There would be no reason to have it distinguished as the conduits of enlightenment. And their saying 'its just meditation' is just a way to help explain why they wouldn't allow it when other magics are capable of the exact same thing with more difficulty or drawbacks. Not to mention the original lore presents itself as a type of 'magical technique' rather than 'just meditation'. If anything, try to keep the original tone of the conduits of enlightenment, and add drawbacks that would make it an underdog compared to the tried and true magics.

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2 hours ago, Gladuos said:

 

The thing is that the originality of the whole thing goes straight out the window when it's put into Voidal. It's nothing but a more limited mental magic at that point. There would be no reason to have it distinguished as the conduits of enlightenment. And their saying 'its just meditation' is just a way to help explain why they wouldn't allow it when other magics are capable of the exact same thing with more difficulty or drawbacks. Not to mention the original lore presents itself as a type of 'magical technique' rather than 'just meditation'. If anything, try to keep the original tone of the conduits of enlightenment, and add drawbacks that would make it an underdog compared to the tried and true magics.

That's just incorrect. Nothing from the original lore is being changed aside from tacking on a way for co-op to happen. You don't need to be a voidal mage to do it solo, and placing the way to make it co-op under voidal (it's literally hardly voidal and you don't need an MA for it) doesn't throw anything out the window as nothing is changing aside from the method of bringing another person in with the person meditating. Same with your claim that other magics "are capable of the exact same thing", that's just plain wrong. I'll hop onto skype and point out why in a bit, but the functionality and purpose of the conduits differs from mental magic or anything else on the server.

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32 minutes ago, The Pink Lion said:

That's just incorrect. Nothing from the original lore is being changed aside from tacking on a way for co-op to happen. You don't need to be a voidal mage to do it solo, and placing the way to make it co-op under voidal (it's literally hardly voidal and you don't need an MA for it) doesn't throw anything out the window as nothing is changing aside from the method of bringing another person in with the person meditating. Same with your claim that other magics "are capable of the exact same thing", that's just plain wrong. I'll hop onto skype and point out why in a bit, but the functionality and purpose of the conduits differs from mental magic or anything else on the server.


You can say that all you want but you've still told me nothing as to why other magics are plain unable to do this in concept. Adding a Voidal trick to this will do nothing but ruin the tone of a spiritual connection of soul and mind. Sorry, that's my opinion on it and it's unlikely to change. You can PM me on skype with the things if you want though.

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The void is the right conduit to connect one mediator with another. However there is no reason why Clerics could not receive the same prophetic dream, Shamans would not enter the same dreaming together, or Druids be joined to the same comprehension of the elements. You could literally explain this away with whatever pseudo spiritualism required by the user. Void is just the most straight forward seen as the connection to the void begins with the mind becoming a void-like expanse of blankness, thus finding another's mind within that meditative state is not so difficult, even if you aren't a mage.

 

Mental magic literally can do this lore already, however I don't see any reason that powerful thinkers wouldn't be able to do something like this together regardless of their magical ability.

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As the original creator of the lore piece i will say jerry really has the closest idea of what i was going for. The void technically is where all things and all magics would originate from in our lore which would mean it being a final source for the ritual to work would make since. However in feel directly stating that it is the source defeats the purpose of the ability playing into what gladuos said. There are a few clerics druids and shamans my char taught in the past how to do this. And i feel by directly saying the void is the source could be detrimental in the neutrality of the ability and ward away many others who would be against it. That doesnt mean i dislike the addition i greatly like it and hope it to be accepted to continue spreading this cool idea. Just wanted to say this. Any questions id be open to answer within the next few days as i come.home in 2 days.

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