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WuHanXianShi14

Elven Origins: Dark Elves

49 posts in this topic

23 minutes ago, Time Lady of Kittens said:

TL:DR: Remove names or add all names of noteable families, stop showing favoritism

Already added everyone who requested their clan be added by the time you wrote this post lol

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The only reason I see for people wanting their names in this lore is to make them relevant again - which, up to this point, hasn't been the case, and will continue to be the case whether or not certain names are excluded. I suggested my established family, Ipos, which is laughably small, because the history I wrote for them involved an ancient figurehead that coincidentally could have been involved in the expedition that invoked the wrath of the Poison, which was then interpreted by this figurehead as to why his family gained the traits they now have. This is probably the extent of ones' family name being included here -- to explain small details, or to establish familiarity through canon and lore timelines.

The cultural divide in the present is too defined to allow any reference of current-day families in ancient lore to be significant, so complaining about it and demanding the additions of these families only expresses selfishness and the attempt to become relevant again. Nevermind that it's redundant to list every notable name in the book just to satiate the desires of people who play several individuals in their own group - let's add them anyway, so it's "fair". No one said this lore needed to be fair. The purpose was for coherency.

They've been listed anyway, though - but other requests will be denied. No more names.

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Asides from the Warhawkes, a lot of the old Dark Haven clans haven't been relevant for at least three years. I don't see why there's a fuss. 

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      You might be trying to add them because it makes sense to add that connection, but it really does seem to subtract. It's ancient, origin lore, so such things really should not be included. You can have the names like Valulei, Azul, and Malin because they are legendary figures. All the family names added and even calling the force that aided Valulei 'ordinators' really only make unnecessary connections that will be looked at, once all those names can really only be remembered within that one dark elven group, as cheap attempts to validate something. It is known how dark elves became dark elves and we have a legendary hero and foe that pertain to dark elves, nothing more is needed.

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Lore Pending

 

Is still needing edits and is not yet complete.

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I have to say there's some substance to concerns about using currently-founded houses in any official ancient origins/history for any race.

 

The main concern I can see isn't just giving validation to current houses in the event of political feuding, etc, but more so that the act ostracizes potential new houses and prevents the formation of new power blocks via RP.

 

Take it this way - Because these houses that you mention in the lore are all controlled by current players (I assume), they are all identified as the only dark elven houses of importance in history. Obviously they're not the only dark elven houses, they can't be, but these are all the ones of importance.

 

Even if you work it in such that the current dark elven clans, including opposing factions, are all factored into this lore, you're putting up a rather large blockade to the formation of new Dark Elven clans which want to have some connection to this history. You're preventing a new group from saying, "I want to establish a clan that's (RPly speaking, not necessarily in actual RP as none of the current clans in actual RP have been) been around for ages, since the early days of the dark elves". Except now there's this lore that basically says, "Well, here's the clans that were around and were of any importance". 

 

So then that group says, "Okay, well, I like this part about X group in ancient history. I want my clan to be like an off-shoot of them, but with some changes". Problem being that X group has a current player base in LOTC. If new group shows up and tries to be an ancient off-shoot of their shared ancestors, the Player Base of that group, if they are assholes, can just say: "No, we have no off-shoots in our clan. It's always been singular. So we're denying that you're real.", thusly completely undermining that new group and their legitimacy from the start, no matter how well-written their lore or history, the current Player Base of the clan they claim to be related to can just deny their legitimate descent ICly and make them basically useless.

 

At the same time, new group can't make a dark elf clan that has no relation to this ancient history (which is now full of currently roleplayed family lines), because then New Group is less influential - They have the impact of not being as "ancient" a line, their family history had no impact on racial history, etc.

 

I am not saying you can't put current houses in ancient history. Don't accuse me of that right off the bat.

 

I'm saying you need to leave a pathway for new players or groups to integrate into the society by creation of their own clans. When we're talking thousands of years ago, and only a few specific bloodlines that were ever of actual "importance", all of which are played by player groups nowadays, that's really making it difficult for a new group or new players to start a new clan, because how can they tie into the history? Especially if they want to be contrary to the current powerbase, like the Warhawkes.

 

Yes, you can absolutely make accounts for all current playerbases of dark elves, but you also need to make account for the ability of new groups to be established which can connect themselves back to dark elven history without infringing upon the ground of player-character clans which may impede their advancement by way of disenfranchisement. 

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Pending final approval, check your PMs for more information.

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1 hour ago, Supremacy said:

The mutilation of Hellfiazz, Urasept and my Dark Elf lore will be forever mourned. 


No it won't. It was bad, you dingus.

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3 hours ago, Supremacy said:

The mutilation of Hellfiazz, Urasept and my Dark Elf lore will be forever mourned. 

What lore

 

Seriously I did some deep digging and asking around when I wrote this because I was vaguely aware you'd written something before I got on the team, but no one could actually give me your lore. Not Dak (who was an LM and dark elf leader), not the LT lead, no one

 

I guess things tend to fade into obscurity when you make them super secret and exclusive for no reason... say no to hidden lore

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13 minutes ago, 吳憾戰士14 said:

What lore

 

Seriously I did some deep digging and asking around when I wrote this because I was vaguely aware you'd written something before I got on the team, but no one could actually give me your lore. Not Dak (who was an LM and dark elf leader), not the LT lead, no one

 

I guess things tend to fade into obscurity when you make them super secret and exclusive for no reason... say no to hidden lore

Did no one really give you the doc with all the 5.0 lore?

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2 minutes ago, Jistuma said:

Did no one really give you the doc with all the 5.0 lore?

I got a doc with 5.0 lore (which was later scrapped, not by me). It mostly was about miscellaneous stuff like creatures and individuals. I was told there was like 80 pages of elf lore. What I found was maybe 5-7 pages (for wood elves, literally all there was was one page, and not even about the race, it was just about one person- Irrin Sirame).

 

Nothing I found was nearly as extensive as what is written here with the actual input of dark elf RP leaders so we just overhauled it.

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14 minutes ago, 吳憾戰士14 said:

I got a doc with 5.0 lore (which was later scrapped, not by me). It mostly was about miscellaneous stuff like creatures and individuals. I was told there was like 80 pages of elf lore. What I found was maybe 5-7 pages (for wood elves, literally all there was was one page, and not even about the race, it was just about one person- Irrin Sirame).

 

Nothing I found was nearly as extensive as what is written here with the actual input of dark elf RP leaders so we just overhauled it.

67 pages of 5.0 lore, not elven lore. Though Connor exagerates, it could be a lot more simplified. I'm looking at the doc, it has 2-3 pages of it, it's mixed with the main Elf lore. There's also the lore on the Wood Elf Origins there, and some other minor lores that involve some wood elves. The dark elf lore is on page 3-6 btw.

 

[Edit] Btw so that others don't misunderstand, I'm pretty sure all of that lore is scrapted.

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Just now, Jistuma said:

67 pages of 5.0 lore, not elven lore. Though Connor exagerates, it could be a lot more simplified. I'm looking at the doc, it has 2-3 pages of it. There's also the lore on the Wood Elf Origins there, and some other minor lores that involve some wood elves. The dark elf lore is on page 3-6 btw.

I think its a moot point anyways because the doc was scrapped. But I read it too, whatever history lore was there wasn't nearly extensive enough to sustain a playerbase's RP.

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1 minute ago, 吳憾戰士14 said:

I think its a moot point anyways because the doc was scrapped. But I read it too, whatever history lore was there wasn't nearly extensive enough to sustain a playerbase's RP.

Just like I can summarize the current dark elf lore into 2 paragraphs, so could it. History lore doesn't have to be extensive imo, just like you don't need to know the full details on what happened in ww2 to know what happened, why and how. Though I only responded because I found it weird that you hadn't read the old lore.

 

I liked the old lore, but in the context on what was suppose to happen. When I knew that almost nothing was built into the map, most of the lore I liked became useless and without context in the game.

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