[✓] Mental Magic Rewrite

[ski_king3 0]

37 minutes ago, Aesopian said:

 

Memetic, so like exclusively transmitted by information. When you want to erase someone's mind, you just say a very precisely intoned phrase, or (more likely) punch them in a bunch of specific places. Obviously these are extreme examples, in reality it'd take hours to tear someone's mind down.

 

if you've read dune, it's just a fusion of being a bene gesserit and a mentat

 

Not gunna lie, I thought you were saying this should be a meme magic...

[Gone 868]

1 hour ago, ski_king3 said:

unwanted by the four current users.

 

 

Little bit more than just four there.

 

1 hour ago, ski_king3 said:

eliminating one of the few things that combat mental magic is pretty sketchy, given that it's already an exceptionally powerful magic.

 

Anyone can learn how to form a mental barrier to combat mental magic or get a ward from someone who can enchant. Or those with the proper magic can ward it themselves. Or abjure it. 

As a mental mage I've encountered each one of those yet never someone saying that them knowing cognatism blocked the mental magic. Clearly it's not a commonly used option. 

 

1 hour ago, ski_king3 said:

holds no ties that are remotely similar to mental magic

 

Both take place in the mind and require good mental focus. Both also include placing illusions upon the mind or used in regards to information.

 

1 hour ago, ski_king3 said:

Also, I don't think you should include memory wiping. While it's been "allowed" with OOC consent, once that happened, certain individuals would proceed to wipe memories or change them extensively over long periods of time without telling the players that it was purely a consent-required thing and not actually accepted lore. I fear you'll see a great deal more of this, and thusly, don't believe you should be having memory wipes be included. It adds nothing to RP and is highly abusable, more so than literally any other magic.

 

That sounds like an issue to talk to the MAT about. I've used memory wiping, been asked to even, with no issues or complaints. I stick within the hour time limit even when people want to forget more. The wiki page for mental magic has a link to the memory wiping addition so it is possible for players to get this information but perhaps if guides and lore pages were actually up to date with information instead of scattered around in separate threads it'd be less confusing for people. 

Memory wipe isn't abuseable since other mental mages can literally undo it, the timeframe is limited, and the process is difficult. Even more so if the one being wiped is unwilling. I've used it multiple times to add to rp since its a great alternative instead of killing someone or even to help people forget damaging things they just saw and don't want to remember. Literally if someone is trying to improperly do the magic simply send screens to a member of the MAT. Quite simple.

 

Also nowhere on the page for memory removal does it say anything about it being denied or anything about needing consent.

[ski_king3 0]

I won't respond to all of it. Yet you stopped playing that character and never received a lesson, and the mental magic memory wiping page is for things that happened within the last hour. Hydra left, Crumena wouldn't have it anymore, and Tom also left. The only active users are Devdog, Tahmas, Luv and oblivions.

[Gone 868]

Just now, ski_king3 said:

I won't respond to all of it. Yet you stopped playing that character and never received a lesson, and the mental magic memory wiping page is for things that happened within the last hour. Hydra left, Crumena wouldn't have it anymore, and Tom also left. The only active users are Devdog, Tahmas, Luv and oblivions.

 

I never received a lesson because you were my character's teacher and even though I asked multiple times for one you stated you didn't like to do lesson rp and for me to just read the guide and rp from there as if I had gotten lessons. Said character still exists but as I'm working on a trial with my main I'm obviously dedicating more of my time to that. 

 

I also literally stated in my post that the memory wipe is for things within an hour??? 

1 minute ago, Aelsioln said:

I stick within the hour time limit even when people want to forget more.

Literally don't know what your comment is even going on about there.

 

Also I don't see Devdog, Tahmas, or Luv commenting on here yet so perhaps you should let them state their own opinions and concerns on it instead of speaking for them.

[Mr. Etan 2839]

I think the merged magics and buffs are cool and needed, make mental magic and cognitism great again. (:

 

It was a good read, loved the art and the post.

[excited 10833]

3 hours ago, Tox said:

I think the merged magics and buffs are cool and needed, make mental magic and cognitism great again. (:

 

It was a good read, loved the art and the post.

My thoughts as a former mental mage and cognat. 

[Mephistophelian 972]

21 hours ago, oblivionsbane said:

         This is very cool, interesting lore, but I disagree with the merging of the two magics. This could just as easily be achieved by writing lore where mental mages are able to perform the Observer's Eye technique to achieve all of these uses minus the ones directly derived from Cognitism. This would allow people, such as myself, the ability to expand on Cognitism and make it a more viable magic and you, a mental mage, to benefit from the original technique as well.

 

         Cognitism is a very young magic in lore, only having existed for around two centuries. During this time, it has not enjoyed the proliferation of many other magics partly due to its initial exclusivity and afterwards its nature of being difficult to understand. Since then it has enjoyed bits of success, but it has still been held back by a lack of teachers and, most importantly, the fact that it could not be viewed by a third party when in use. This led to many, many potential students giving up the search simply because, unless a teacher proclaimed themselves such, it would never be known. Since then I have not only IC'ly published an indepth tome on Cognitism, but I have also much more publicly announced my character's existence and knowledge. Overall, I understand your reasoning and appreciate the quality of the lore, but I disagree that it requires the merging of the two magics to achieve the nature of this new mental magic lore.

 

I apologise in advance for the brevity of my reply; I've had to rewrite if four times already because of my internet forcing the page to reload and thus resetting all my progress. Very frustrating...I'll try sum up the points I made, but please don't think of this as aggressive, merely short and as basic as possible because I'm sick of rewriting my replies.

 

Thanks for the compliments, I appreciate them :) I know I can't change your opinions on the lore, but I have a questions instead: what makes you think this addition will change how cognatism is RPed or how it effects RP? Additionally, what makes you believe this lore is restricting the magic, especially when it was designed to allow for more expansions?

 

8 hours ago, ski_king3 said:

 

This. I'll be posting a self-teach app soon(TM) for my character, but really the primary point is this isn't needed, and is unwanted by the four current users.

 

Lore-wise, it would make a lot more sense for it to merge with sensory illusion, given that it's literally performing sensory illusion on yourself, and holds no ties that are remotely similar to mental magic. Likewise, eliminating one of the few things that combat mental magic is pretty sketchy, given that it's already an exceptionally powerful magic.

 

Also, I don't think you should include memory wiping. While it's been "allowed" with OOC consent, once that happened, certain individuals would proceed to wipe memories or change them extensively over long periods of time without telling the players that it was purely a consent-required thing and not actually accepted lore. I fear you'll see a great deal more of this, and thusly, don't believe you should be having memory wipes be included. It adds nothing to RP and is highly abusable, more so than literally any other magic.

 

I apologise in advance for the brevity of my reply; I've had to rewrite if four times already because of my internet forcing the page to reload and thus resetting all my progress. Very frustrating... I'll try sum up the points I made, but please don't think of this as aggressive, merely short and as basic as possible because I'm sick of rewriting my replies. 

 

I feel like I did rather well in making this make sense lore-wise. What do you believe is the thing that makes it not make sense in lore (more specifically, in the lore I wrote; I refer to the whole artificial mind thing that I hope you read about before saying this)? Also, what do you mean by your points on memory wiping? Are you referring to this accepted lore?: 

 

Also, I completely understand your concern, which is why I have specified the red lines on memory removal :) If anything like what you described occurs, it will be powergaming. As much as I'd like to control if people PG magic or not, it really isn't my decision, nor is it the fault of the lore. I'm sure you, a previously good lore writer, understand this.

 

7 hours ago, Aesopian said:

 

Memetic, so like exclusively transmitted by information. When you want to erase someone's mind, you just say a very precisely intoned phrase, or (more likely) punch them in a bunch of specific places. Obviously these are extreme examples, in reality it'd take hours to tear someone's mind down.

 

if you've read dune, it's just a fusion of being a bene gesserit and a mentat

 

This is very cool and would work in another magic system other than LotCs, and I think it'd be cool if our system was more like that! It isn't, though... but that makes me think.... hrmm 

[𝙻𝚞𝚟 XO 3062]

No don't do this.

 

As a Cognat and former Mental Mage I really enjoyed the magics as their own individual things magics and both are very fun to RP. 

 

Please don't.

 

Sincerely,

A user and past-user of both magics.

[Tsuyose 3282]

I agree with the notion of this change.

[Matheus 525]

5 hours ago, Tsuyose said:

I agree with the notion of this change.

?

7 hours ago, Luv said:

No don't do this.

 

As a Cognat and former Mental Mage I really enjoyed the magics as their own individual things magics and both are very fun to RP. 

 

Please don't.

 

Sincerely,

A user and past-user of both magics.

When was the last time you've had a practical use for Cognatism? Not trying to start ****, just curious. 

[𝙻𝚞𝚟 XO 3062]

13 minutes ago, Matheus said:

?

When was the last time you've had a practical use for Cognatism? Not trying to start ****, just curious. 

 

It's meant for character development, which is what I've used it for. 

 

Not every magic needs to have a way to be shown off or used in combat, etc.

[Mephistophelian 972]

Just now, Luv said:

It's meant for character development, which is what I've used it for. 

 

Not every magic needs to have a way to be shown off or used in combat, etc.

 

With this in mind, what about this rewrite prevents you from using it solely for character development, now? What do you feel is forcing players to adhere to something that is flashy and used in combat?

[𝙻𝚞𝚟 XO 3062]

Just now, Mephistophelian said:

 

With this in mind, what about this rewrite prevents you from using it solely for character development, now? What do you feel is forcing players to adhere to something that is flashy and used in combat?

 

 

I mean I just don't see why they need to be mixed, they've been doing fine as solo magics what has caused this sudden need for a merge?

 

And when it comes to players picking magics that are flashy and combat orientated is because people like to show off hard work I suppose? 

 

I know majority of the users of Cognatisim are not on board with this merge and would much rather have the magics be separated however, I am going to say that if it were to happen anyway I could live with it, doesn't mean I want it in any way shape or form though.

 

[Matheus 525]

3 minutes ago, Luv said:

I mean I just don't see why they need to be mixed, they've been doing fine as solo magics what has caused this sudden need for a merge?

Imo, 7 allegedly semi-active users of the art hardly qualifies as healthy.

 

[ski_king3 0]

This lore rewrite would make sense because it would change the lore, of course cognatism could have been written many different ways. But we have folks who have been using it as far back as the Fringe who feel pretty strongly about how it ought to be used, who don't want to see a change.

 

And yes, Jistuma's lore leaves no room for OOC approved long term memory wipes. It's important to write lore in such a way that it cannot easily be abused, and allowing long term memory wiping in any capacity absolutely leaves room for abuse. You can't write lore that you know will inevitably be powergamed and then just ignore that when weighing whether or not it should be accepted. That's the most important part of assessing and reviewing lore, whether or not it is likely to be abused.

 

But to go back to the merge, look dude, you've proposed this twice. It looks a lot like you want to have cognatism. Just drop mental magic and learn cog instead, if you want it that badly, it's way more fun anyways!