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Panashea
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Apohet made Stargush'Stroh.

 

While I believe that none of the Greater Ancestral Dark Elves really warrant that position, as a race they were practically made by a Spirit; Luara.

 

Couple that with their service to Shamanism and they deserve to go there. However, to my understanding they don't share the same space as the Orcs without intention to.

 

For ignorant people bringing up my name and accusing me, I only went on existing Lore.

 

Also, as for catching lightning (?) and nuclear bombs, that's a little far fetched.

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17 hours ago, Tsuyose said:

Whichever lm has enforced orcs are braindead savages is wrong, we haven't pushed an agenda you're portraying since the old LT.

What are you saying, no LM has ever said orcs are braindead savages, ever.

 

17 hours ago, Zarsies said:

No lore requires orcs to hunch. There are, however, height limits.

This is for Ologs, not for orcs. Ologs that were super tall, had to start hunching over.

17 hours ago, L0rdB0rd said:

The spirit realm isn't up for shamans to decide who goes up, it's up to Krug. Not Hellfiazz or Hedge.

Actually it's Apohet that decides who enters the spirit realm, not Krug. 

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11 hours ago, Smaw said:

Couple that with their service to Shamanism and they deserve to go there. However, to my understanding they don't share the same space as the Orcs without intention to.

What have dark elves done with shamanism other than Dakirennis and Brokenhelix? They're the only two dark elves who practice the religion, and even still its somewhat vague. 

 

14 hours ago, Sir K Andruske said:

On another note there is a lot of hypocrisy here on an RP lore post you are OOCly telling everyone to stop making orcs RP a certain way (which no one is) and then saying dark elves are excluded from the spirit world. I HIGHLY doubt many of the orc players have been better or more deserving to go to the spirit world or wherever after they die and frankly the orcs don't have a monopoly on it. They make use of it just as mages make use of the void and have grown attached to it in a similar manner to the dark elves.

The Ancestral Plain is not the same as the Spiritual Realm. The Ancestral realm is a part of the spiritual plane. Orcs do infact have a monopoly on it as they exist as the shamans and worshipers of the spirits rather than two dark elves. They are much more deserving as the worship of spirits and living and honorable life is far greater than what any of the Dark Elf Ancestrals have done. Did any of them even worship the spirits IRP?

 

6 hours ago, Jistuma said:

Actually it's Apohet that decides who enters the spirit realm, not Krug. 

Actually no, Apohet rarely interacts with the spiritual plane, and it is Kor who allows those into the Ancestral Realm after death. Krug has the most power in such a realm other than Kor, which is why he would also have a say in the matter. 

 

6 hours ago, Jistuma said:

This is for Ologs, not for orcs. Ologs that were super tall, had to start hunching over.

2Samspan already addressed this, please look over his comment.

 

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@DivineJustice, you might want to look into how many dark elves venerate ancestors before making that claim. Most of Ker'nor ,and I believe the Warhawkes, venerate ancestors. I also noticed that the term 'orcish honor' is getting thrown around a lot so I am going to toss this here: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/honor

 

So unless you mean orcish sense of honor as in their cultural way of showing respect or what one looks like when they have respect I suggest you refrain from using the term 'orcish honor'

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2 hours ago, Master Khen'aum said:

 

Orcish 'Honor' has always been equated in my mind to European Chivalry or much more so Bushido of Japan. It's less so a literal definition pulled from a dictionary website in an attempt to be blunt on the matter, but just a simple 2 word moniker that just breaks down to the way of life for Orcs. Orcs have a fairly heavily structured set of traditions and social ethics that they follow and they usually package these parts of their Culture into their every fibre of law and religion, which has always what Orcish Honor has been to me.  

 

Also to note I don't see the point in calling this, it's a relatively valid term to use that may only require brief explanation as to what it is and doesn't really deflate the points being made by Divine or anyone else who dare use 'Orcish Honor' leisurely.

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Sounds like something the LMs did with dwarf and Irongut blood lore. Something that was accepted was dwarves were resistance to magic (like a 15% debuff) and only Ironguts could use vidal magic. LMs declared war and voided the age old lore

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12 hours ago, Chamo said:

Orcish 'Honor' has always been equated in my mind to European Chivalry or much more so Bushido of Japan. It's less so a literal definition pulled from a dictionary website in an attempt to be blunt on the matter, but just a simple 2 word moniker that just breaks down to the way of life for Orcs. Orcs have a fairly heavily structured set of traditions and social ethics that they follow and they usually package these parts of their Culture into their every fibre of law and religion, which has always what Orcish Honor has been to me.  

 

Also to note I don't see the point in calling this, it's a relatively valid term to use that may only require brief explanation as to what it is and doesn't really deflate the points being made by Divine or anyone else who dare use 'Orcish Honor' leisurely.

I am bringing it up because a lot of people use 'orcish honor' as in being right in killing anyone who is weaker than you. Even with Bushido or European Chivalry, respect for yourself and respect for others is the basis of it and the heroes that are archetypes of honor often perform actions that almost make them seem humble. I also bring it up because I do not think that when the Wandering Wizard blessed the orcs with honor to combat their blood lust he had in mind orcish culture (Which probably took centuries after to develop into it's modern form) specifically, which Divine was trying to use to justify why it would be so hard for other races to get into the Stargush Stroh. I may have misinterpreted what Divine said, but it did seem  that he was putting orcish culture over honor.

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1 hour ago, Master Khen'aum said:

I am bringing it up because a lot of people use 'orcish honor' as in being right in killing anyone who is weaker than you.

This is literally the opposite of what orcish honor is. No one has ever used this, unless they're whitewash or simply pvp hungry. 

 

1 hour ago, Master Khen'aum said:

I do not think that when the Wandering Wizard blessed the orcs with honor to combat their blood lust he had in mind orcish culture

? Krug always had honor, unless I missed some addition to lore or some strange new creation lore added, it was Krug's refusal of Iblees and personal strength that gives the honor and culture the orcs revere him for. 

 

1 hour ago, Master Khen'aum said:

Divine was trying to use to justify why it would be so hard for other races to get into the Stargush Stroh. I may have misinterpreted what Divine said, but it did seem  that he was putting orcish culture over honor.

The reason its difficult to enter Stargush Stroh for the other races is because its essentially Valhalla. Not only would one have to worship the spirits (which few besides the orcs do), but actually do something great in their lives whether dying a warrior's death, or stand tall to ones causes or belief in the spirits. Even the areas of the Stargush Stroh are modeled after Valhalla. It's not simply an afterlife. Its a select few and chosen, and the reason most orcs enter is because they spend hundreds of years, or their entire life trying to do so. Just because you're a leader, or a partier, doesn't mean you get a free pass.

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19 hours ago, DivineJustice said:

Actually no, Apohet rarely interacts with the spiritual plane, and it is Kor who allows those into the Ancestral Realm after death. Krug has the most power in such a realm other than Kor, which is why he would also have a say in the matter. 

Even if Krug is the most powerful ancestral spirit, he has no command over who enters the ancestral realm, that's up to Apohet, which was active when Krug entered it.

 

At this point, not even Apohet decides who enters, he decided when he made it, and now it keeps the same way. Like it said in the lore, it's like a net, catching some descedents based on what they did in life. And it doesn't seperate between races when it does it. Only exception might be human because of their blessing, but that's about it.

12 hours ago, Hiebe said:

Sounds like something the LMs did with dwarf and Irongut blood lore. Something that was accepted was dwarves were resistance to magic (like a 15% debuff) and only Ironguts could use vidal magic. LMs declared war and voided the age old lore

This was self impose limitations that the dwarve playerbase wanted, but that made no sense with lore (magic resistance makes almost no sense considering most magic have the same properties as the non magical stuff), and force new dwarves out of magic. LMs just said we would not accept such lore because it would stop new player dwarves that did want magic to not be able to have it (and saying they had a bit of irongut blood is BS'ing and you know it). Forest dwarves would not be able to be druids, but somehow they would be able to bypass that limitation with runes.

 

For some reason you're still discussing it after 4-5 year, AEGIS player made lore, which was the map which had no lore team and everyone could invent whatever they wanted. Most stuff didn't pass.

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7 hours ago, Jistuma said:

Even if Krug is the most powerful ancestral spirit, he has no command over who enters the ancestral realm, that's up to Apohet, which was active when Krug entered it.

 

At this point, not even Apohet decides who enters, he decided when he made it, and now it keeps the same way. Like it said in the lore, it's like a net, catching some descedents based on what they did in life. And it doesn't seperate between races when it does it. Only exception might be human because of their blessing, but that's about it.

 

If you're going to comment and argue against someone else, please actually read what they're saying. Apohet has no say over who goes into the ancestral realm. It is Kor. Look over any list of spirits, and it has been that way for years now. Kor is the only person who chooses and selects people within it. It is not a net, rather, a specific and select choosing, as I've said time and time again. This is why there is an issue with the current dark elf ancestrals. None of them have feats worthy enough for Kor's selection, or even worshiped the spiriaz.in the first place. They were added by Hellfiaz simply because of his OOC afiliation with them. 

 

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9 minutes ago, DivineJustice said:

 

If you're going to comment and argue against someone else, please actually read what they're saying. Apohet has no say over who goes into the ancestral realm. It is Kor. Look over any list of spirits, and it has been that way for years now. Kor is the only person who chooses and selects people within it. It is not a net, rather, a specific and select choosing, as I've said time and time again. This is why there is an issue with the current dark elf ancestrals. None of them have feats worthy enough for Kor's selection, or even worshiped the spiriaz.in the first place. They were added by Hellfiaz simply because of his OOC afiliation with them. 

 

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but he could tamper with what Aeriel cared most for, the passage of souls. Apohet felt a sense of triumph as he attached his realm to the passage, the dead's spirits now flowing into a newly made plane within it.

 

But Apohet wasn't a malevolent being, or at least he didn't think of himself that way, and he didn't approve of those who were. And so he made it that only the good, the virtuous and the honourable souls would be able to come to him. So was his final insult to Aeriel; she would receive only the evil-doers, the apathetic standers-by, the greedy and the callous. 

 

I can't quote that for some reason, but it's in here:

Edit: I found elementalism lore, but where is the lore for the other subtypes?

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Seriously enough is enough. You aren't in charge so take what you get and forget about it when it comes to the dark elves. It obviously isn't within your jurisdiction to dictate who does and doesn't get to go and frankly as someone who isn't even involved it irks me to see this amount of grumbling coming from an ET member through a thread that isn't in the correct section of the forums.

 

If you want to tell people they don't belong there go tell most of the orcs whose psuedo-honor isn't actually honor. If the honorable are the ones who go then I highly doubt most of the orcs through the ages would have qualified. Defend their right to go. Don't worry about te dark elves. 

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12 hours ago, Jistuma said:

Even if Krug is the most powerful ancestral spirit, he has no command over who enters the ancestral realm, that's up to Apohet, which was active when Krug entered it.

 

At this point, not even Apohet decides who enters, he decided when he made it, and now it keeps the same way. Like it said in the lore, it's like a net, catching some descedents based on what they did in life. And it doesn't seperate between races when it does it. Only exception might be human because of their blessing, but that's about it.

This was self impose limitations that the dwarve playerbase wanted, but that made no sense with lore (magic resistance makes almost no sense considering most magic have the same properties as the non magical stuff), and force new dwarves out of magic. LMs just said we would not accept such lore because it would stop new player dwarves that did want magic to not be able to have it (and saying they had a bit of irongut blood is BS'ing and you know it). Forest dwarves would not be able to be druids, but somehow they would be able to bypass that limitation with runes.

 

For some reason you're still discussing it after 4-5 year, AEGIS player made lore, which was the map which had no lore team and everyone could invent whatever they wanted. Most stuff didn't pass.

Self imposed and only people who didn't like it were newbies who barely even stayed on the server more then a month. Guess keeping things special isn't allowed ( but keeping guild lock magic is ok.....)

 

It's whatever now we still like to enforce it in roleplay, hunting down rouge dwarves mages is fun.

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3 hours ago, Hiebe said:

Self imposed and only people who didn't like it were newbies who barely even stayed on the server more then a month. Guess keeping things special isn't allowed ( but keeping guild lock magic is ok.....)

 

It's whatever now we still like to enforce it in roleplay, hunting down rouge dwarves mages is fun.

 

That sounds pretty dope actually!

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14 hours ago, Jistuma said:

But Apohet wasn't a malevolent being, or at least he didn't think of himself that way, and he didn't approve of those who were. And so he made it that only the good, the virtuous and the honourable souls would be able to come to him. So was his final insult to Aeriel; she would receive only the evil-doers, the apathetic standers-by, the greedy and the callous. 

It was written by Hellfiaz as well, and his old list of the spirits says the same thing above about Kor. I'm going to either assume the lore conflicts or that Apohet created the realm, and now Kor now presides over it due to his fear and hiding himself from his creations. 

 

 

14 hours ago, Jistuma said:

I found elementalism lore, but where is the lore for the other subtypes?

I'll talk to the shamans about writing up pages for shamanism, as they are missing. Thank you for updating me.

 

14 hours ago, Sir K Andruske said:

-snip-

Being complacent is the reason there are issues with the current orcish playerbase and the lore itself. Some of the things mentioned before are a bit extreme, though still hold merit. I personally asked LT where to post this since it was a collection of various arguments from orcish players and myself, and this is where they told me to do so. Because I'm ET does't mean I'm not entitled to a voice or opinion on the group I roleplay outside of the work I do. What pseudo-honor are you talking about? If orcs act dishonorably, they're not allowed in. What assumption or jab are you trying to make? Many orcs aren't allowed in, and whichever ones you are talking about, wouldn't be a part of the Ancestral Realm. There's nothing to defend. It's not a worry over the dark elves, its an issue with the current lore. I don't care whether humans, or elves, or dwarves enter the Ancestral Realm, as I've mentioned before, but they to actually have to qualify to enter the realm, and currently the playerbase, which few actually worship the spirits or perform honorable acts, or the Ancestrals listed before do not.

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