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Harrison

war rules clarification and suggestion

14 posts in this topic

Tl;dr - basically just guidelines for war claims and war in general with a few new additions


 

Introduction

It’s been awhile since you’ve probably read anything serious or relevant to LoTC from me most likely, but I couldn’t help but notice War Rules and all that are still a bit of a mess. Admittedly, I did nothing to help that throughout my time of running war claims. Whilst I sure was able to run everything smoothly and be sure to keep the whole system fair due to my own disposition, this inevitably would lead to someone in the future unable to cope with the lack of info or procedures I left behind or abusing that type of system I ran thanks to their own disposition. I’m not implying that has happened, just explaining my thought process is all, so no one should be getting up in arms about it: staff or player.

 

I decided to try combine good systems (with a lil’ tweaking) created by others with some simplistic, straightforward and familiar seeming rules. I will be leaving them slightly vague in certain areas, not because I couldn’t develop them enough, but because creating strict and set in stone rules only hurts the server more and more, especially with such a flexible topic such as War. In saying that, these ‘rules’ should moreso be taken as a sort of base to work upon, perhaps a guide. If both nation leaders/military leaders part of the War discussion are willing to agree upon a change to the guidelines then there is no reason to deny it. This opens up a pathway for more diverse and flexible war claims to be had. You could include special types of tactical limitations, make rewards for winning a battle more diverse and so on.

 

Declaring War

The first issue I and others have struggled with is War Justification. “oh this guy said on skype he wont come after us but backstabbed us is that justified??” “hey er that guy who is now part of my playerbase came and raided me in your armour before he swapped sides thats war buddy thats casus belli right” “yeah my character’s long lost bastard son has come back to wreak havoc and suddenly take back his ladn its clear casus belli right???!” Or so on. I heard this all the time. The reason why is because we’ve always left Casus Belli and Justification up to the Staff team’s discretion. This places an enormous amount of strain on the staff handling it, as well as distressing the playerbase due to them having to ‘come to a decision’ on the topic.

A while back Niccum actually came up with a system I quite liked: a point based system with a chart of possible acts a nation can commit. The ‘worse’ or ‘better’ an act is determines how many points are added or subtracted from your nation’s total, as dictated by said chart. The more points a nation accumulates, the harsher a War can be waged against them.


 

7Ogj8PD.png

7NRvXaK.png

 

-Credits to Niccum and anyone else who worked on this, I had no part in it.

 

This new system will involve players tallying up and recording the acts that they carry out to then present it in a document, a forum post, or whatever other way they can think of. Each event that adds or subtracts from the tally must also be backed up with proof if the Moderator/War Lead judging it can not immediately remember the specific event or confirm if it even took place. Suitable proof can be unbiased/unexaggerated role-play forum posts (OOC tl;dr’s / War relevant notices can be left at the bottom of posts), screenshots of the event occurring (as long as the individual presenting them was not killed during the situation or had their memory wiped somehow), or confirmation from the other side that the event transpired as described.

 

The next step is determining what type of war can be waged. This depends on how many points the target nation has accumulated which can then be modified by any negative points they wish to contest the claim with (if they also wish for war, then they may choose to ignore the negative points and go ahead anyway). There are four tiers of War which you can reach.

 

Declaring War - 50 Points

This officially declares war on another nation, opening up War Raiding for both parties. Until an official declaration has been made and confirmed, then a nation can not War Raid.

 

Settlement Pillage War - 100 Points

A skirmish => siege series of Warclaims may be declared upon a valid settlement. Winning the War rewards the victor with temporary access to the region to loot any chests within it and cause moderate damage to structures to give them a ‘ruined’ appearance.

(Note: I have not included ‘No moving items out of the region.’ because it is nearly impossible to moderate effectively and fairly, hence why the cost for a Pillage War being such a low amount of points.)

 

Settlement Conquest War - 250 Points

A skirmish => siege series of Warclaims may be declared upon a valid settlement. Winning the War rewards the victor with full access and ownership of the region. The losers do not receive the 3-7 day grace period to move items, as they should have done so beforehand.

 

Nation Conquest War - 350 Points

A skirmish => siege => skirmish => siege (etc) series of Warclaims may be declared upon any valid settlements until the capital of the target nation is reached. Once a capital is taken, any tiles owned by that nation and any affiliated settlements on them are transferred over to the victorious faction’s nation leader. ‘Independance’ to avoid losing your sub-region upon your nation’s demise must be declared before the Warclaim Post upon the capital has been posted, so that people don’t try and loophole the system an hour before the loss.

 

The points can be tweaked about and change depending on whether or not they’re imbalanced, too easy to accumulate etc.

 

It is the player’s responsibility to record points, not the Staff team’s.

Prepare your Casus Belli proposals yourself.

 

Travelling for War

To properly declare war and attend a warclaim / target a specific settlement, you must be able to sensibly and realistically travel to it with an army and siege equipment. This can either be a clear route down a road from A to B, travelling by boat into enemy waters to dock on the coast, travelling through allied lands (possibly with the help of said allies) and so on. Some basic ground rules would be as follows:

  • Siege gear can not effectively travel through forests.

  • A ship may only hold four siege engines if fighting at sea.

  • If travelling through another nation’s land, you must gain permission IRP.

  • If you can not get a clear route, your faction may not take part in the Warclaim/the Warclaim may not happen at all or must be diverted to a different location.

All routes must be approved by the War Team lead before they can be used - check first before posting and assuming.

 

Battle Momentum and Battle Types

This is the familiar old system, pretty much. To decide who can siege who, a skirmish battle must first happen. This is usually an open field battle with minimal defences and structures around. The winner of a skirmish may move onto a siege. Sieges determine what happens to a region, usually consisting of one side using siege engines against a keep, whilst the other side try to destroy their engines with ones of their own. If a new target or warpath is chosen after winning a skirmish, another skirmish must be had before a siege can occur.

 

Examples

  1. Side 1 wins Skirmish A, allowing them to Siege Fort A.

  2. Side 2 defends Fort A, allowing them to schedule Skirmish B.

  3. Side 2 wins Skirmish B, allowing them to Siege Fort B.

Etc

 

Siege Gear and Mechanics Behind It

Siege equipment comes in various different forms. It is used to either attack and crumble an enemy fort for an attacking side to enter via a breach or used to destroy other siege equipment to prevent it from being used.

 

Firing a Siege Engine

To fire a siege engine, you must first have three people around it ‘operating’ it, each performing an emote to load, prepare and aim it. After this, one of them will roll to see whether they hit or not. A roll of 17-19 counts as a hit, where a 20 counts as a critical hit, and a 1 counts as a critical miss.

  • 17-19: If fired at a siege engine, it loses one hitpoint (siege engines have two hitpoints). If fired at a structure, a small edit is made with worldedit (usually a 2x2 brush with the assistance of a gravity brush).

  • 20: If fired at a siege engine, it loses two hitpoints (destroying it regardless). If fired at a wall, a slightly larger edit is made with worldedit (usually a couple clicks of a 2x2 brush with the assistance of a gravity brush).

  • 1: The siege engine will malfunction and cease to work. You can use a TNT block to simulate this, you can remove a large chunk of it via worldedit, you can set it on fire etc.

 

Destroying a Siege Engine

If you do not happen to be a siege engine operator and instead a ground based soldier, you can still contribute to destroying siege engines. If you happen to have an alchemist fire, you are able to throw it onto a siege engine and destroy it. A ‘hit’ only counts if part of the engine is within the lingering potion field left behind by the alchemist fire (Pro tip! Put F3+B on to see hitboxes to better judge whether it hit or not).

 

Note: I know Xarkly has thoughts on how alchemist fire instantly destroying siege engines is a bit overpowered due to how easy it now is to acquire alchemist fire, so as an alternative I suggest that teegah or someone who can code create a new recipe for an anti siege bomb sorta thing. Basically you combine 3+ alchemist fire into one potion, with the same effects as alchemist fire, but with a much more distinct splash zone, as well as perhaps launching something like a firework into the air on impact. This way it’s easier to detect whether siege gear has been bombed or not.

 

Types of Siege Engine and their costs

 

Trebuchet/Catapult

Cost: 1, 000

Ammunition: Stone Shot

Effect: Can attack and destroy anything.

 

Ballistae

Cost: 500

Players operating: 3

Ammunition: Heavy iron shovels or iron lances.

Effect: Can destroy enemy siege equipment but not terrain or structures.

 

Siege Tower

Cost: 1000

Players operating: 10

Effect: Can be pushed over suitable terrain to be used as a way to climb into enemy fortifications.

 

Goliath/Atronach

Cost: 1000+(200 per obelisk)

Players Operating: 1

Ammunition: N/A

Effect: Damage depending on spell. Can halt friendly and offensive attacks in favor of protecting allied siege weapons/structures (non penetrable force field).

Materials:

Wood: Takes heavy damage from everything. (+1 on air brush if hitting goliath, +2 from ballista shot) -100

Stone: Takes heavy damage from treb.  

Metal: Weak damage from everything. (-2 on the air brush if hitting goliath) +100

Obelisk must be within 8 blocks of the goliath. If this distance changes in any way, the connection is broken.

(More extensive info is available on the lore page.)

 

Extra Terms and Equipment

There are many other things you can bring along to a warclaim. Golden apples, potions, ladders, TNT and so on. However, most of these features are disabled by default. If you would like to use them (or prohibit them for sure) in a Warclaim, you must say so on your warclaim post towards the end. (EG: No potions, No ladders, TNT is allowed, No Golden Apples).




If I’ve missed anything important, or done something dumb (formatting, a mistake, etc) just tell me. I’m terrible at writing things clearly and am happy to hear feedback. The only new addition is the Casus Belli system, everything else is what we’ve always done but just put clearly down onto paper. This is to help current and future war teams, as well as players, go off of something more concrete. Hopefully the new CB system is implemented as it’s a great idea from Niccum.

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1 hour ago, Harrison said:

Travelling for War

To properly declare war and attend a warclaim / target a specific settlement, you must be able to sensibly and realistically travel to it with an army and siege equipment. This can either be a clear route down a road from A to B, travelling by boat into enemy waters to dock on the coast, travelling through allied lands (possibly with the help of said allies) and so on. Some basic ground rules would be as follows:

  • Siege gear can not effectively travel through forests.

  • A ship may only hold four siege engines if fighting at sea.

  • If travelling through another nation’s land, you must gain permission IRP.

  • If you can not get a clear route, your faction may not take part in the Warclaim/the Warclaim may not happen at all or must be diverted to a different location.

All routes must be approved by the War Team lead before they can be used - check first before posting and assuming.

I like this but like when Tsuyose tried to warclaim Bastion he was prevented because Courland didn't want him passing through their land (Jburg area) because Courland didn't want tsuyose owning it instead of Imibee instead. However they have absolutely no forts or settlements in this land, how would they realistically stop them passing through or even notice?

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39 minutes ago, A Moongazer said:

I like this but like when Tsuyose tried to warclaim Bastion he was prevented because Courland didn't want him passing through their land (Jburg area) because Courland didn't want tsuyose owning it instead of Imibee instead. However they have absolutely no forts or settlements in this land, how would they realistically stop them passing through or even notice?

0
 

no need for the passive aggressive ooc jab in that..........

 

I mean, I very much do want to support things as much as possible with the whole roleplay > ruleplay but this is something that needs to be considered as a 'game mechanic' in my opinion. People can already just show up to the Warclaim within five minutes due to us using fast travels and warp signs and so on, so it makes sense to handle that part in a fairly mechanical way too. It becomes very messy when you start bringing 'rply i would be able to...' into an equation.

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I like it 

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How would this work for undead?

But overall, it's great.

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49 minutes ago, L0rdB0rd said:

How would this work for undead?

But overall, it's great.

0
 

people need to stop trying to warclaim bastion back its dead come on guys JUST LET IT GO

 

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Rply I'd just take a pickaxe to the side of ur keep so

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This is so over complicated good luck counting the numbers in armies and trying to do rosters again lmao 

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8 minutes ago, DrakeHaze. said:

This is so over complicated good luck counting the numbers in armies and trying to do rosters again lmao 

0
 

?

where does it say i suggested we do that

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26 minutes ago, Harrison said:

?

where does it say i suggested we do that

0
 

One thing turns into another with the staff team. We had excellent heist rules put together by a competent staff member and now they are in ruins because GMs edited a good system.

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ok harrison lets say I give every savoyard a donkey to carry themselves and their war gear/rations/etc, do I get anything for fielding the medieval equivalent of a mechanized army or whatever (like for example being able to pass through X amount of territory w/o permission or smth)?

 

why can't I disassemble siege equipment and cart it around like aoe2 trebs? pretty sure more than 4 disassembled trebs would fit on a boat.

 

what stops me from floating a barge dragged by another boat over, and coating the barge in trebs?

 

 

 

 

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