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[Completed][Completed] Meating eat is morally wrong


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15 hours ago, Space said:

You are worse than most of these people, because you've thought about it yet still support the exploitation of animals :^)

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I don't eat meat. I rarely eat dairy because of my lactose intolerance, but whenever I take the magical lactose pill then I do drink a glass of milk or have some broccoli and cheese. I don't support the exploitation of animals but you do have to realize that it's everyone's choice what they put in their stomach. If nobody ate meat, then animals would overpopulate and we'd simply have too many of them! Do I think there could be a better way to kill the animals, instead of torturing them? Yes, of course! That's actually what nudged me to go vegan, was that I had seen a video of a pig being kicked, then slaughtered or something. I can't remember, it was a long, long time ago. In conclusion, people will do what they want to do no matter what everyone says. 

 

By the way, you're obviously a vegan, or vegetarian of some sort right? I mean it'd be silly and slightly hypocritical if you told me I was worse than a lot of these people because I still "support the exploitation of animals," thanks, friend!

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My view,

There are many things upon which I'd like to point out where many people in this thread are continuously using what is known as a 'straw-man' fallacy while replying to various statements, keep on topic, please. Rather than call people out, I'm going to address the root problems of this argument's question Space wants to be answered: "Is eating/killing animals morally wrong and not necessary?"

 

Before you can determine if eating animals is a vile principal to have, you must first ask the question: "What is the truth of human morality?" What determines killing and eating an innocent or wild animal to be wrong? From what I have read: 'Meat isn't a necessity anymore now that we find a vegan diet is healthier'. Okay, I'm going to agree with you even though I'm not a vegan or vegetarian. Though I would like to point out that many types of meat have, especially chicken and steak which have far healthier remedies which plants such as tofu lentils etc do not have enough of when compared to these meats. I'll give you an example, a common food to negate the effects of colds and flu back in the day though still used today and highly effective in today's world, was a simple recipe, chicken or lamb stew. Such food would give your body amazing protein spikes, rejuvenating your body. Now with this medical knowledge in mind, if I was asked if I wanted to have a ceaser salad when there was another healthier option to be had, I'd go for the soup. I need more instant and highly effective nutrients due to my body-type. I eat Veggies by the way. ;)

There are many animal rights activist (Not saying you are part of such a cult, though at this point it is highly likely from the way I'm reading your argument) factions who feel that eating animals or bringing them to harm is morally wrong. Where do they build this 'Social Construct' on? A bandwagon fallacy, all because some vegetarian philosopher gave his high and mighty 'educated' opinion. Don't get confused, I'm not being biased. I'm using facts, facts don't have feelings. Do you want some facts? Very well.

 

In the 1970-80s there was an overpopulation of deer in the state of Virgina, hunting season was called off on account of 'people who were depressed that animals were being killed and were annoyed from the gunfire' for a whole year! The deer population at the time was already extensive as it was. In the middle of the next yearly hunting season, it took hunters nearly 4-5 months to bring the deer population back down to a reasonable level. This had to be done to reduce the tick-bite fever and a number of other diseases that were effecting other animals and humans alike.

 

On 7/3/2017 at 6:25 AM, Space said:

Therefore, we should move off of it, to stop causing/support harm to animals. There lies no distinction between animals and humans that doesn't either include all humans and some animals or not all humans and some animals. Therefore, if you support treating humans well (not killing them, respecting their right to existence) you need to support that for animals.

This has been disproven.

 

The truth is if the human race doesn't keep the population of highly breedable animals down, we live an unhealthier life. Now, eating the meat of an animal, overpopulated or not, is this wrong? Obviously not if it is to help the human race and the animals which need to be kept under control for the animal's health and human's. Letting meat go to waste creates a very unhealthy environment. (I know that decomposing bodies creates rich soil, I'm talking about meat which has just been freshly cut. This is where the concept of our morality really comes into play, are we going to continue to make fruitless arguments whether upon eating animals is wrong or simply unnecessary? Why do you think most dying dogs are put down? Because we believe as humans, this animal shouldn't deserve to suffer anymore. This is the human morality I stand for. Same with dying livestock, don't let it go to waste otherwise you are just causing more harm to yourself and the planet in general. It is okay to have the wrong opinion on certain subjects, hence why debates were created so that we might learn from each other. Doctors and medically trained humans up until the 1920s believed that it was healthy to bleed the 'sick' out of people. Which basically meant, you were going to die. 

 

On 7/3/2017 at 6:25 AM, Space said:

is natural - Lots of things are natural that we reject, you need something more i.e. murder.

 

It has been natural for thousands of years! Your claim that 'murder is something natural that we reject', is a false, you speak as if you were a serial killer no offense. I am questioning your morality so hard right now. Murder is not a natural thing at all. According to the statistics, suicide trumps murder cases 7/1.


There are many other philosophers and other very knowledgeable people that are wrong in this world. Humans are not perfect, we are all different. You can be a Vegan, you can be a meatatarian. Though it is highly encouraged to examine yourself and others to figure out the truth behind what is 'fact' and what is simply, your feeling on this topic.

 

And I'm done!

 

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a roughly equivalent number of animals are killed through large-scale agricultural production of produce and meat (for the same amount of calories/food produced)

 

they just aren't animals we care about : ) 

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I used to be vegetarian, and I can tell you that it was somewhat bad for my body. I felt tired, my allergies were really active; I wasn't in a specifically bad condition, but after resuming eating meat I felt way better. I understand eating animals is morally wrong, and I fully support refusing it, but you do have to bear in mind that some people may need that bit of meat.

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Ima go eat a steak brb

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If we don't kill the animals they overpopulate and starve, I'd rather be murdered than starve.

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19 hours ago, Lord Sagan said:

But none of those are complete proteins. Also, tofu is bad for you.

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There are many people who are vegan who live full and healthy lives. Unless the assumption is that the healthy ones are lying and eating meat or something, there are manageable ways to exist.

 

19 hours ago, Lark said:

Reading back to the first thing that made sense is what space said "Is it possible to have a vegan world"

 

Yeah, it totally is at this point. It would totally be possible. If everyone was growing their own food in say a nice little hydroponic towers (theoretically since I am basing this on the assumption that this sort of technology would be available within the next decade or so) then yes, everyone go vegan and we wouldn't need to eat animals.

 

But to hit the moral point, yes you are killing an animal for consumption of its flesh. Let us disregard nutrition for a moment and just get into the gristle (see what I did there) of the issue. Many people eat meat because it tastes good, for chefs, there is a lot you can do with meat and really turn it into a piece of art. But that sounds weird doesn't it? Using the cooked flesh of another living thing to make art? Sounds like something out of Borderlands. Like making meat bicycles. 

 

As you said in your previous post, "According to most societies morals, eating meat is wrong." And you are correct, it is wrong. It is completely and utterly wrong to eat meat. You are killing another living, SENTIENT Being. But then we get into, what defines a living being, and is it wrong to eat another living being? Plants are living beings, where do you draw the boundary? Where is the line that says, "This is okay to eat because it doesn't scream out loud vs This isn't okay to eat because it does." Shellfish doesn't make a sound when you kill it, are we talking all meat or seafood as well then?

 

I think it comes down to necessity. Yes it is morally wrong to consume another living thing, but necessity dictates we need to eat other living things to survive. Without our REASONING, we are still just animals. So we're still predators, and sometimes prey. 

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Following your logic, the flaw at the end is that it is not necessary to eat meat for the vast vast majority of us.

 

17 hours ago, Niccum said:

I thought I should add in that my household pets, i.e. dogs and cats, all serve a purpose around my rural home. Dogs keep the big rodents and birds away and cats keep the small rodents away. I assume it is morally acceptable for them to do such as well.

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I don't know, pets is a bit of a separate debate that I have ot think about. On one hand, I can see how it's basically just slavery. On the other, you can argue that this is beneficial for the animal. It is interesting.

 

16 hours ago, Imam Faiz Kharadeen said:

the human race can not sustain itself with lettuce and berries, meat makes up a heavy part of a healthy diet as well as helps feed impoverished areas. we still have poverty and hunger crisis's that goes on quite often across the world, does your measly little peanut brain really think the world can sustain itself on vegan sh1t? you'll just increase the world hunger problem, or heavily decrease the human population by trying to force everyone to stop eating meat

 

 

i chose humanity over animals any day. we do not have the tech to feed every single person with a meatless diet. we physically can not sustain ourselves well with a vegan diet either, you literally become sick. 

 

vegan argument is trash, go home hillary clinton supporter

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Yes it can. If your requirement for necessity for not eating meat is that the world could sustain itself without meat, then I hope once it is proven to you that the world can be sustained without meat you will switch? Because otherwise we're sorta talking past one another.

 

16 hours ago, KiausT (The Alpha ****) said:

My morals are different than your morals, therefore eating meat is morally okay. 

 

 

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But you need to justify your morals. If your morals are that eating meat is ok then there is more to it. For example, you need to justify what separates every human and every other animal-- If you do not, this is just based on feeling which is silly because you can justify anything on that. 'I hate x people.' 'Why?' 'Well they are different/Well I just feel like I like them' or whatever.

 

16 hours ago, Astraaeus said:

This debate is frivolous. Whether to eat meat or not should be left to the choice of the consumer, whether they want to be informed or not, is their choice. They hold the right to choose what they want in the supermarket and should not be restricted to choose plants only. You can't change how people think or how society works, only the laws that nudge it.

 

If society could be changed more easily, I'm sure there would be a lot less social issues with all the social justice warriors popping up. Unfortunately society is a longer machine to repair whereas laws can be changed faster. Banning all meat consumption is really the only way you could have this vegan society instantly, which would lead to bigger problems.

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I don't think this is relevant or correct, but it's a separate discussion on the purpose of debate and that sort of thing.

 

13 hours ago, Sky said:

Today I learned, just like opinions, everyone has their own moral compasses. Wowee.

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But you have to justify the morals in some way. I guess I shouldn't have worded it like tha,t my bad-- 'Meating eat is morally unjustifiable without taking large leaps.'

 

Wowee

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i'll reply to others later, zzzz

 

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54 minutes ago, Space said:

 

 

Yes it can. If your requirement for necessity for not eating meat is that the world could sustain itself without meat, then I hope once it is proven to you that the world can be sustained without meat you will switch? Because otherwise we're sorta talking past one another.

 

 

 

Boi, now u got me talkin in CAPS.

 

The world literally can not sustain itself without allowing meat to be on the menu. If you attempt to force a meatless diet on the entire world, it will only have severe repercussions such as loss of population, deformities, and illnesses. Meat, mainly chicken, beef, and pork, make up a great percentage of the food industry network (estimated at like 65%). What happens when you cut meat completely out of the question?

Well, first the environment gets better. Less pollution, people can breathe easier. THIS IS THE ONLY GOOD THING ABOUT IT!

 

TWO, jobless. Meat agricultural industry is like over 1billion jobs, which includes the production and sale of animal products. Force Veganism on everyone? Boom, now we got an economic problem to solve.

 

Three, our bodies literally can not sustain itself without animal products. Eating red meats is literally smashed into our genetic code, its what helps strengthen our immune system. You can find proteins sure, but what about Creatine? What about Vitamins b12? DHA? You literally can not find a handful of essential nutrients that is available in red meats in plants. Plus, its no secret that people get sick quite easily when you go vegan, hell even being vegetarian can make you sick. I have a good many handful of friends who are either vegetarian or vegan who are sick literally every month. Quite literally every month, their immune system is so ****. Why are they always getting sick? Could be they just have weak immune systems, could be the new meatless diet they pushed themselves on. Irregardless, my theory is that they get sick more often due to lack of nutrients. Rip.

 

Four, world can't sustain itself. Do you honestly believe we can feed the entire world without meats, when meats makes up a heavy percentage of food supply? Developing countries will find it 100x harder to get to our standards of living on strictly a green diet. The world itself would find difficulty in surviving as well. You gotta remember, we have seasons on earth meaning a great many plants can not be grown or harvested during a specific season. So trying to get a vege good when its not in season will not only be difficult but will most likely be costly as well. Some countries will find it heavily difficult to even produce its own food if their in a climate that can't allow for growable conditions, meaning they have to rely heavily on imports which would become more expensive than it already is. Why? Because most countries have some sort of agricultural standing, usually in the meat industry. They're able to feed their people, but still require imports. Cut out what they were able to already produce? Means more imports, more money to spend.

 

Five. No, I will not reduce myself to consuming fake meats or food produced by the science community (In case you were going to bring that up as a counter argument). Thats the best way to get cancer, eat natural fam.

 

 

All in all, I can go on forever as to why making the entire world a vegan planet is bad but the main argument is that the world will not sustain itself. Populations will shrink, developing countries would suffer, poverty would increase, and so forth.

 

Plus, meat is ******* delicious. I love cheese and fish too, and ICECREAM and COOKIES, and BROWNIES! I love candy, and kebabs, and sandwiches. Everything that contains animal products is good af! And I'm healthy af from eating it all. Woop woop

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6 hours ago, Space said:

But you need to justify your morals.

I believe that animals are inferior to humans. Animals are meant to be eaten, be it in the wild or by humans. It is not abuse to kill an animal humanely and consume its parts. Odds are, that would have happened to the animal anyways.

Another thing, what would keep population levels of animals down if we didn't eat them? And, in some parts of the world, humans hunt down pests that devestate the environment, such as lion fish, and they get profit from it. It would be a waste to just kill the animals and not eat them. (Unless you know what you know what you are doing, don't eat a lionfish. Those are poisonous as **** and must be cooked by a professional.)

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I like the taste of meat and my diet is already limited enough by being unable to eat anything with gluten in it.

 

Gluten free bread sucks

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oh god what the **** has this turned into!?! why did you fall for this *****'s bait?

 

guess i may hop on anyway,

 

meat is tasty and i don't give a **** about animals, idc if they feel pain or if they are factory farmed as it doesn't affect me, questioning my morals wont do ****

 

If ur gonna tell me 'it's bad for the planet' fine; i don't give a **** either

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think of how many farmers will lose their jobs if the world would not eat meat.

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On 2017-07-08 at 6:20 PM, Imam Faiz Kharadeen said:

 

Boi, now u got me talkin in CAPS.

 

The world literally can not sustain itself without allowing meat to be on the menu. If you attempt to force a meatless diet on the entire world, it will only have severe repercussions such as loss of population, deformities, and illnesses. Meat, mainly chicken, beef, and pork, make up a great percentage of the food industry network (estimated at like 65%). What happens when you cut meat completely out of the question?

Well, first the environment gets better. Less pollution, people can breathe easier. THIS IS THE ONLY GOOD THING ABOUT IT!

 

TWO, jobless. Meat agricultural industry is like over 1billion jobs, which includes the production and sale of animal products. Force Veganism on everyone? Boom, now we got an economic problem to solve.

 

Three, our bodies literally can not sustain itself without animal products. Eating red meats is literally smashed into our genetic code, its what helps strengthen our immune system. You can find proteins sure, but what about Creatine? What about Vitamins b12? DHA? You literally can not find a handful of essential nutrients that is available in red meats in plants. Plus, its no secret that people get sick quite easily when you go vegan, hell even being vegetarian can make you sick. I have a good many handful of friends who are either vegetarian or vegan who are sick literally every month. Quite literally every month, their immune system is so ****. Why are they always getting sick? Could be they just have weak immune systems, could be the new meatless diet they pushed themselves on. Irregardless, my theory is that they get sick more often due to lack of nutrients. Rip.

 

Four, world can't sustain itself. Do you honestly believe we can feed the entire world without meats, when meats makes up a heavy percentage of food supply? Developing countries will find it 100x harder to get to our standards of living on strictly a green diet. The world itself would find difficulty in surviving as well. You gotta remember, we have seasons on earth meaning a great many plants can not be grown or harvested during a specific season. So trying to get a vege good when its not in season will not only be difficult but will most likely be costly as well. Some countries will find it heavily difficult to even produce its own food if their in a climate that can't allow for growable conditions, meaning they have to rely heavily on imports which would become more expensive than it already is. Why? Because most countries have some sort of agricultural standing, usually in the meat industry. They're able to feed their people, but still require imports. Cut out what they were able to already produce? Means more imports, more money to spend.

 

Five. No, I will not reduce myself to consuming fake meats or food produced by the science community (In case you were going to bring that up as a counter argument). Thats the best way to get cancer, eat natural fam.

 

 

All in all, I can go on forever as to why making the entire world a vegan planet is bad but the main argument is that the world will not sustain itself. Populations will shrink, developing countries would suffer, poverty would increase, and so forth.

 

Plus, meat is ******* delicious. I love cheese and fish too, and ICECREAM and COOKIES, and BROWNIES! I love candy, and kebabs, and sandwiches. Everything that contains animal products is good af! And I'm healthy af from eating it all. Woop woop

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I don't think that first part is accurate or supported by any evidence, but that's besides the point. We're not talking about the world going vegan. We're talking about individauls.

 

The free market will decide what happens with those people who lose their job :^) capitalism

 

Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence.

 

We would just feed the world with the food we're giving the animals (which 90% of those calories are wasted raising the animal anyways). Also, refer to my first staement.

 

Anti-GMO is propaganda fear mongering.

 

I enjoy those things too. Doesn't make it right to eat them. If you think that does give you a right to eat them, there are many things that bring pleasure that you don't do or that society decided we shouldn't do.

 

On 2017-07-08 at 9:16 PM, KiausT (The Alpha ****) said:

I believe that animals are inferior to humans. Animals are meant to be eaten, be it in the wild or by humans. It is not abuse to kill an animal humanely and consume its parts. Odds are, that would have happened to the animal anyways.

Another thing, what would keep population levels of animals down if we didn't eat them? And, in some parts of the world, humans hunt down pests that devestate the environment, such as lion fish, and they get profit from it. It would be a waste to just kill the animals and not eat them. (Unless you know what you know what you are doing, don't eat a lionfish. Those are poisonous as **** and must be cooked by a professional.)

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Why are they inferior? What trait separates an animal and a human? Why are they meant to be eaten?

 

Idk before humans animals didn't seem to have much an issue with overpopulation- Atleast, when they did, the population levels would lower as food supplies got over-eaten, etc.

 

On 2017-07-08 at 11:27 PM, Aqua Vita said:

I like the taste of meat and my diet is already limited enough by being unable to eat anything with gluten in it.

 

Gluten free bread sucks

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I like cool TVs doesn't mean I should be able to take whatever cool TV I want

 

On 2017-07-11 at 3:40 PM, Chaw said:

oh god what the **** has this turned into!?! why did you fall for this *****'s bait?

 

guess i may hop on anyway,

 

meat is tasty and i don't give a **** about animals, idc if they feel pain or if they are factory farmed as it doesn't affect me, questioning my morals wont do ****

 

If ur gonna tell me 'it's bad for the planet' fine; i don't give a **** either

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Why don't you give a **** about animals? What separates an animal and a human?

 

On 2017-07-11 at 6:52 PM, Jacobcraft04 said:

think of how many farmers will lose their jobs if the world would not eat meat.

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Irrelevant because that's not what the discussion is about, but these jobs could easily stay in the agricultural sector. People will still need to eat.

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I had counter argument but the forums deleted them, so I'm just going to paraphrase them. Also, you can't just ask why and have that as a counter argument. This is a debate, not a philosophical quest. 

 

Everything organic and safe to eat is meant to be eaten. Animals, plants, even humans fall into this category. 

 

Animals are inferior because they are not the same species as me. My species will always be more important than another species, therefore all other species are inferior. 

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