[Magic][Deity] The Divine Scoundrels

[ShameJax 1391]

7 minutes ago, Evocress said:

 

I'll ask, what contributes as basic knowledge? You're unable to teach yourself until you learn the progress of creating a curse yourself without aid. 

-

Extremely Basic knowledge is learning how to connect and develop a puppet. 

Yet, creating curses by yourself is T3. Which is above basic knowledge. 

-

Stealing a puppeteers magic will not make you know how to perform curses as they're learnt through trial and error. All puppeteers magics are created in different ways with curses giving them a unique pattern. You simply cannot steal these curses.

 

Getting down to puppets 'Extremely basic knowledge' meaning a T1 puppet. You wouldn't know how to create puppets for higher curses as you'll be unable to perform them on the clay, moss and wheat puppet you'll start learning at.

-

As you cannot advance in any way shape or form. You'll be stuck at T1 and unable to progress further even with an OOC-overseer. 

0

 

Apprentice is generally recognized as tier 2, which places you right at the point where you may enter tier 3. In most magics one has learned the basics to the point that they can self teach it once they've gone through tier 2, as you yourself have said. They do not steal the curses, rather the understanding of it to allow for them to create their own.

[E__V__O 1984]

1 minute ago, ShameJax said:

Apprentice is generally recognized as tier 2, which places you right at the point where you may enter tier 3. In most magics one has learned the basics to the point that they can self teach it once they've gone through tier 2, as you yourself have said. They do not steal the curses, rather the understanding of it to allow for them to create their own.

 

 

I believe I stated this:

 

 

Quoted from the guide:

 

Then if I go into the teaching construct, you won't learn how to even formulate your own curses until the very last day as that's when you get T3. 

-

 

Though as curses are taught until that point, you'll be getting basic knowledge of:

Connecting.

Imbuing a puppet with a curse. 

 

You wouldn't:
Get knowledge of how to construct puppets / what puppets you require.

Understand how to create your own curses. 

 

This means, you're physically unable to even progress. You cannot steal a magic and know the whole process of creating a curse as that is a theory lesson with training and time. 

-

 

You state: 

9 minutes ago, ShameJax said:

Apprentice is generally recognized as tier 2, which places you right at the point where you may enter tier 3. In most magics one has learned the basics to the point that they can self teach

 

This is not the case with Soul Puppetry as I said above you hit T3 when you learn how to create your own curses. 

[ShameJax 1391]

5 minutes ago, Evocress said:

 

I believe I stated this:

 

 

Quoted from the guide:

 

Then if I go into the teaching construct, you won't learn how to even formulate your own curses until the very last day as that's when you get T3. 

-

 

Though as curses are taught until that point, you'll be getting basic knowledge of:

Connecting.

Imbuing a puppet with a curse. 

 

You wouldn't:
Get knowledge of how to construct puppets / what puppets you require.

Understand how to create your own curses. 

 

This means, you're physically unable to even progress. You cannot steal a magic and know the whole process of creating a curse as that is a theory lesson with training and time. 

-

 

You state: 

 

This is not the case with Soul Puppetry as I said above you hit T3 when you learn how to create your own curses. 

0

 

I'll add in a precaution for soul puppetry that you must have help from a soul puppeteer to progress, as I wasn't aware that in the early stages it was so reliant on a teacher to aid you. If any other magic has a clear reason as to why that would need to be the case feel free to let me know, this lore is designed to focus on the more interesting questions.

 

I'm also adding in a note under progression that any advanced ability must be taught. (IE Blood Magic rituals)

[EdgyMagey 787]

The major problem is people casting magic that they'd OOCly not know the limits of,

 

must be heavily moderated

[ShameJax 1391]

1 hour ago, EdgyMagey said:

The major problem is people casting magic that they'd OOCly not know the limits of,

 

must be heavily moderated

0

 

Yeah, I put that in as a con of it. Also an OOC overseer is required no matter what - so that would pretty much give them OOC knowledge of it.

[BrandNewKitten 2788]

 

Celestialism is a tier 5+ ability that is usable only after a ritual. Afterwards it is only able to be used after 1-3 weeks of being muted (silenced/no magic) and then esch ability is learned seperately/you also need t5 transfig. 

 

I think it is dope to include it but thought I would comment to expressly say just stealing Celestialism won't get you anywhere. You will need more resources! But so very cool dude!

[ShameJax 1391]

7 minutes ago, Sir K Andruske said:

 

Celestialism is a tier 5+ ability that is usable only after a ritual. Afterwards it is only able to be used after 1-3 weeks of being muted (silenced/no magic) and then esch ability is learned seperately/you also need t5 transfig. 

 

I think it is dope to include it but thought I would comment to expressly say just stealing Celestialism won't get you anywhere. You will need more resources! But so very cool dude!

0

 

I'll remove celestialism from the list, then. I wasn't a particularly large fan of the morph I gave it, I found that one particularly difficult to come up with. Thank you though!

 

If anyone else has any other suggestions feel free to let me know. You can contact me here, or find me through Skype or Discord (both found on my profile page).

[BrandNewKitten 2788]

40 minutes ago, ShameJax said:

I'll remove celestialism from the list, then. I wasn't a particularly large fan of the morph I gave it, I found that one particularly difficult to come up with. Thank you though!

 

If anyone else has any other suggestions feel free to let me know. You can contact me here, or find me through Skype or Discord (both found on my profile page).

0

 

 

That morph is already a thing for shades using celestialism anyways. 

 

I would suggest allowing a tier 5 arcanist who is also a scoundrel to trigger the ability to use Celestialism permenantly through stealing. Meaning they can undergo the initial ritual in a different way.

 

Example:

 

- Tier 5 Scoundrel (with tier 5 arcanism) knocks out and steals from a Celestialist. 

-> Scoundrel undergoes the metamophosos to recieve their celestial aura. -> This is a physical change and thus becomes permanent. -> Transfig is still required  for certain aspects but Celestialism may be learned normally now.

 

If you have Celestialism and are Scoundrel stealing from a Celestialist could help advance you in one of the many facets of the magic. A warped point being whatever is created degrades/cannot be refueled. 

 

This is totally up to you though. Celestialism adds many unique spells on top of Arcanism. Each of which could have a warped version through this if you so choose to pursue it's development. 

 

 

[ShameJax 1391]

13 minutes ago, Sir K Andruske said:

 

That morph is already a thing for shades using celestialism anyways. 

 

I would suggest allowing a tier 5 arcanist who is also a scoundrel to trigger the ability to use Celestialism permenantly through stealing. Meaning they can undergo the initial ritual in a different way.

 

Example:

 

- Tier 5 Scoundrel (with tier 5 arcanism) knocks out and steals from a Celestialist. 

-> Scoundrel undergoes the metamophosos to recieve their celestial aura. -> This is a physical change and thus becomes permanent. -> Transfig is still required  for certain aspects but Celestialism may be learned normally now.

 

If you have Celestialism and are Scoundrel stealing from a Celestialist could help advance you in one of the many facets of the magic. A warped point being whatever is created degrades/cannot be refueled. 

 

This is totally up to you though. Celestialism adds many unique spells on top of Arcanism. Each of which could have a warped version through this if you so choose to pursue it's development. 

 

 

0

 

I'll contact you tomorrow with a section for that, it's really too late for me to think competently.

[ShameJax 1391]

Celestial Arcanism updated. If there are any other experts in a magic that sees an issue and would like to help out with their respective arts, please do.

[GodEmperorFlam 3447]

Thank you for submitting your piece! Unfortunately, between having a project concerning 6.0, evaluating the lore trials, and focusing on clearing out the pending lore, the team will be unable to have a loremag completed within a week. This will be put under review and a verdict will be given around the 29th (roughly 2 weeks from now). I apologize for the inconvenience.

[GodEmperorFlam 3447]

This lore is pending, you will be contacted regarding the issues raised by the lore team so you may fix it. You have 2 weeks to make the changes, beginning from when you are contacted. Once you have edited your piece, send me a forum PM and your piece will be reviewed to ensure the changes have been made.

[ShameJax 1391]

This lore has been updated. Changes may be found in the changelog spoiler at the bottom of the post.

[Blundermore 2733]

I'm not quite sure on other deity based lore for magic but I'm pretty certain that under the current rewrite for the Ascended a Divine Scoundrel would be able to steal the magic of an ascended, but would lack the means to use it.

In order to use Ascended magic, a Descendant must go through a process of rebirth, that has them being taken by Aeriel in both soul and body and effectively rewritten to become a physical extension of herself. 
Because of this, the powers the Ascended actually wield are not theirs to call their own, the Ascended instead are merely borrowing power from Aeriel however this power in order to be utilized requires the means that only an Ascended can produce. As they act as conduits in which the powers of Aeriel are drawn through using their own ember.

Effectively, though perhaps a Divine scoundrel could perhaps steal the power of Aeriel, which in itself seems a little silly how you would divert that power to yourself from a literal Anguel connecting to a physical extension of herself, you'd effectively have the nail but not the hammer to use it. I.e. without the extreme soul and body changes an Ascended goes through during rebirth, a divine scoundrel would never be capable of using Ascended magic. Divine Scoundrels lack the Ember within them to even call forth the power of Aeriel to begin with at will, meaning they lack the means of which to use Ascended magic even as a Demi Ascended, whom possess a small Ember in their current state. 


This also pretty much makes Demi Ascended and their weaknesses completely nonsensical if this lore is passed. You're pretty much Demi Ascended but better really. 
A Demi Ascended being a being that cannot produce a full ember within themselves but instead can learn Arcane magic. Limiting their abilities within the Ascended quite significantly. 
From what I'm reading you do not gain any such debuffs at all. So effectively under this current write up your lore makes the entire purpose of the Demi Ascended pointless, everyone in the Demi Ascended might as well be Divine scoundrels. Which is silly because Divine scoundrels lack an Ember completely yet somehow are better at Ascended magic than a Demi Ascended? That's just nonsensical nonsense sorry.


So to end, this lore pretty much completely writes around the issues faced by Demi Ascended without being impeded at all in the same way Demi Ascended are. If Divine Scoundrels are to gain Ascended abilities without any sort of debuffs then I do not see why the restrictions on Demi Ascended should be imposed at all. One rule for us and one rule for everyone else is not how it works. 

This lore, questionable whether or not you could even steal the power, does not give you the tools to use the powers of an Ascended, meaning that a Divine scoundrel could not ever steal the powers of an Ascended and use them
 

[ShameJax 1391]

7 hours ago, Blundermore said:

I'm not quite sure on other deity based lore for magic but I'm pretty certain that under the current rewrite for the Ascended a Divine Scoundrel would be able to steal the magic of an ascended, but would lack the means to use it.

In order to use Ascended magic, a Descendant must go through a process of rebirth, that has them being taken by Aeriel in both soul and body and effectively rewritten to become a physical extension of herself. 
Because of this, the powers the Ascended actually wield are not theirs to call their own, the Ascended instead are merely borrowing power from Aeriel however this power in order to be utilized requires the means that only an Ascended can produce. As they act as conduits in which the powers of Aeriel are drawn through using their own ember.

Effectively, though perhaps a Divine scoundrel could perhaps steal the power of Aeriel, which in itself seems a little silly how you would divert that power to yourself from a literal Anguel connecting to a physical extension of herself, you'd effectively have the nail but not the hammer to use it. I.e. without the extreme soul and body changes an Ascended goes through during rebirth, a divine scoundrel would never be capable of using Ascended magic. Divine Scoundrels lack the Ember within them to even call forth the power of Aeriel to begin with at will, meaning they lack the means of which to use Ascended magic even as a Demi Ascended, whom possess a small Ember in their current state. 


This also pretty much makes Demi Ascended and their weaknesses completely nonsensical if this lore is passed. You're pretty much Demi Ascended but better really. 
A Demi Ascended being a being that cannot produce a full ember within themselves but instead can learn Arcane magic. Limiting their abilities within the Ascended quite significantly. 
From what I'm reading you do not gain any such debuffs at all. So effectively under this current write up your lore makes the entire purpose of the Demi Ascended pointless, everyone in the Demi Ascended might as well be Divine scoundrels. Which is silly because Divine scoundrels lack an Ember completely yet somehow are better at Ascended magic than a Demi Ascended? That's just nonsensical nonsense sorry.


So to end, this lore pretty much completely writes around the issues faced by Demi Ascended without being impeded at all in the same way Demi Ascended are. If Divine Scoundrels are to gain Ascended abilities without any sort of debuffs then I do not see why the restrictions on Demi Ascended should be imposed at all. One rule for us and one rule for everyone else is not how it works. 

This lore, questionable whether or not you could even steal the power, does not give you the tools to use the powers of an Ascended, meaning that a Divine scoundrel could not ever steal the powers of an Ascended and use them
 

1

 

This is on my phone, so I really can't promise a thorough response. 

 

As I've stated in previous replies the magic does two things to allow this:

1. By stealing a portion of soul essence the scoundrel is capable of mimicking what allows for another holy practitioner to practice it, in this case it is the living flame.

2. The trinket is used as the means of casting the magic, not the scoundrel themselves. Given, due to this the trinket becomes a massive weak spot.

 

Over the demi ascended I understand what you're saying, and truly personally preferred how the ascended used to simply have different abilities in the silver sect rather than being limited to one thing. A scoundrel is also only capable of casting soulfire, just as a demi-ascended would - yet the scoundrel faces hordes of weaknesses in comparison to the hordes of benefits any ascended receives. While an ascended is immortal a scoundrel must put their life on the like to progress, while an ascended possesses a small regenerative capability a scoundrel becomes weak to ascended magic while casting and if their trinket is broken they are sent unconscious, while an ascended receives a strong barrier about their soul a scoundrel progressively loses willpower and becomes a creature of greed.