Jump to content

[✗] Tahariaen Clericalism - The Clerics of Tahariae


Farryn
 Share

Recommended Posts

59 minutes ago, SeventhCircle said:

 

I've already made my personal view point to you on this particular issue multiple times but I'll restate it here.

It's incredibly silly that our magic doesn't hurt Ascended, keepers or druids soul trees. If Tah's mission is for the world to be completely pure they can not be left on the earth. It makes zero sense just cause they're the 'friends' of tah for them to be spared unless Tah isn't really that devoted to his own mission. not only that but it seems strange we have such strict tenants and utterings while tah himself is like Mehhhhhhhhh they're not really impure whatever even though there on the same level of impurity as literally all 'dark' begins/constructs. They're souls/physical forms are changed and distorted from the natural descendant forms aka they're unnatural and hence impure. You can't be unnatural and pure that just silly.

0
 

 

I have said this time and time again: Ascended, Keepers, and Soultrees will never be affected by a clerical light. I have told you this a good amount of times.

Keepers are not what Taharie would deem impure by any means. They are actual brings of pure holy light. Filled with divine ichor. Tah literally gave such blueprints to Xan to have Xan's versions made. Why would Tahariae suddenly go against Xan, the Aengul that Tahariae is closest to, and kill his creations which he helped make in the first place? It is utterly pointless and just wastes a lot of lore.

 

With Soul Trees - they are completely nature. Their souls and body are not corrupted by taint, they are just a soul in a tree and have a body made out of natural wood and natural products. If Tahariae's light did affect soul trees - our magic may as well harm every tree, flower, and grass since they are with the Aspects. Our magic never harms or impact nature. Tahariae and the Aspects are on good terms and has accepted what the druids are doing - this coming from the Tahariae lore writer.

 

With the Ascended - yes, they are immortal but Tahariae does not care that they are immortal. They still have a biological body and they wield the power of light through the form of holy flames. The Ascended heal what the clerics cannot heal, they heal the very soul from taint and curses that the clerics cannot remove else we'll damage the soul. Why would Tahariae get rid of the Ascended because they are just immortal and can help souls?

 

The issue here is that you believe firmly that Tahariae is full on "PURGE EVERYTHING UNNATURAL AT ONCE". However, Tahariae is not that blinded by his views. He is a powerful and logical entity that can see full well that the soul trees do not defy what he wants in the realm - because they are natural, made of trees within the mortal realm. The Keepers were personally created through Tahariae's help and aid his war brother - Xan - in keeping order within the realm. The Ascended heal impurity where the clerics cannot because of how sensitive the souls are. And both the keepers and Ascended follow a similar mission to the clerics - eradicate the darkness. All three groups are not even false life like the Homunculi or unnatural life: Their bodies have been modified to suit the needs of their deity and their duty, which help towards bringing forth purity. They are still mortals in the sense they have a natural made body.

 

Tahariae would rather have these three groups around, assisting in eradicating the major impurity (dark beings and dark mages), rather than have the clerics focus entirely on eradicating these minor groups instead of focusing on the major impurity.  The clerics have always followed and accepted that these three groups are not impure, long before you became a cleric. If they wanted this, then action would have been taken way before I became a cleric. Therefore I am not changing this lore from how it has always been because of two people - I am staying true to lore and what the majority wants.

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Farryn said:
  • How is War Clericalism butchered?
1
 

With the time limits you placed upon the combat spells (20 Minutes), it was indeed butchered.

 

You removed Weapons and Shields, things we use regularly, without even mentioning it in the change log.

 

The new additions are fine, but they don't adjust the core issue of Clericalism. We aren't the best healers. We were one of the better types at combating the dark creatures. And because of this, losing combative prowess and ability to manipulate our light into other weapons and defenses makes little sense. We're taking two steps back and one step forward by losing key aspects to our arsenal for limited utility spells when our patron wishes for us to eradicate the darkness. 

 

Clerics want more freedom with their light, we want to be able to take it further and have it evolve with us as we spend years along side it, we want the ability to think outside of the box.

 

If your argument is going to be "Its too much like Paladins", Tah and Xan are 'brothers'. Tah gave them the blueprints to Keepers. If you're going to say that Tah is allied and working with these Aenguls, then there's no reason why we couldn't share some abilities at a weaker skill level, similar to how paladins are able to heal at a lesser ability.

 

1 hour ago, Farryn said:

 

  • Orbs no longer burn and are considered a defence? - Orbs of light are still offensive but I do understand where you got confused. "Spells such as Pulsing Light, Orb of Light and Sacred Aegis are more defence based or vanish a few seconds after contact, meaning that the burning effect will not occur for these spells as contact will never be held at a longer period upon contact with a dark being or mage." Orb of Light is not defensive but its categorised with Sacred Aegis in terms of that they do not cause a much of a burning effect due to the orb exploding and vanishing in a matter of seconds.1
 

 

Then reword it as such. The people that are going to be looking at this are either ones trying to learn how to use their magic in RP or those fighting Clerics and will simply shrug off an orb thrown at them because its categorized as a "defensive" spell. This is a current issue that we have as Holy Vs Dark, determining how powerful an attack is or how resilient something is to an attack. Muddying the waters unintentionally is only going to cause issues down the line.

 

1 hour ago, Farryn said:
  • Tahariae - That is your view of how clericalism should work but this lore is going by how clericalism has always worked and operated, one that everyone - both clerics and non clerics- do prefer when it comes to this. I'm trying not to rely fully on Tahariae's lore to explain why something is affected, and I am going by many lores and I do not hold the right to suddenly go "Boom! Keepers and Ascended are negatively affected!". It's not fair on the other groups if I change their own lore. Honestly, Tahariae is not that hell bent on eradicating everything impure. He can be logical and understanding, know when to take advantage of something and when to focus on the major issues. If anything, if it helps to eradicate the greater impures (dark beings), then it can remain until the greater threat is gone then that lesser impurity is focused on. Furthermore, this is to keep in line with the keeper, ascended, and soul tree lores that cannot be affected negatively by clerical magic. And yes, the clerics can certainly decide such when it comes to homunculi, etc. However, the followers of other deities that Tahariae is allied with will and always will be unharmed by clerical magic.1
 

 

That is not my view of how Clericalism should work. That is how it has worked. Tahariae is depicted as Judge, Jury, and Executioner. There is no chance to plead a case or look for a happy medium. You're either pure and his light doesn't burn you or you're impure and the light burns you. This is how it has always worked and is confirmed by LT. Tah is the Hitler of the Aenguls.

 

There is no reason for Clerics to be using their magic on Ascended, Keepers, or Soul Trees unless they are being fought in the first place. All have their own ways of healing themselves. Truthfully, because of them being unnatural beings, being followers of an Aengul other than Tah, and having the ability to naturally remedy their own wounds, it makes little sense why Tah would want them to be healed in the first place as thats just a misuse of his Light which breaks a Tenent. Have them heal themselves unless unable. 

 

I get that we want to all hold hands and sing campfire songs and have holy orders be best buddies, but it makes little sense. Yes, they all work for the "Greater Good" of the Realm, but deep down, each Aengul has their own agenda they're trying to push. Even between Xan and Tah who are brothers, the differences run deep. And brothers fight ALL the time, some of the bloodiest battles in fiction and non-fiction have been between siblings that wanted the same goal but didn't see eye to eye about how to reach it. It'd be interesting to allow the magic to hurt them, but allowing the players to decide can create tension and dynamic RP within the holy orders. You'd have those that would be strictly following Tah's words, those that want to do whats best for the realm, and those with mixed emotions.

 

And god knows least two of the other holy orders magic works on us.

 

2 hours ago, Farryn said:

Honestly, Tahariae is not that hell bent on eradicating everything impure. He can be logical and understanding

 

Ok, you made me laugh out loud.

 

Having Clerics jump off cliffs because he wanted them to show loyalty, then disconnected them when they refused is logical and understanding.

Shaming Clerics that have sex outside of marriage or drink a bit is logical and understanding.

Severing the connection forever and refusing an individual to ever return to his service is logical and understanding.

Even you said, he never forgets.


Tah isn't logical or understanding. If he was, he wouldn't be depicted as the sole person in a court room within his realm, he wouldn't task his followers to purge and destroy every dark being, regardless of their nature or creation.

 

I remember when Zer0 once told me that if my child ever became a Dark Mage or Being and I couldn't bring myself to destroy it, that Tah would disconnect me.

 

2 hours ago, Farryn said:

 

  • You have Divine Curism in place of Priest Healing throughout, needs to be changed. - I have checked and I do not see any signs of 'Divine Curative' anywhere on the Priest Healing. I am certain I rechanged it all back to Priest Healing.

 

Wouldn't post it if it wasn't there.

f406dd313bb71119fc635212d00fce02.png

 

2 hours ago, Farryn said:

Shades - Alright. Do you know who is the Shade LM so I can talk with them on it?

 

The one at the time was Thomas, so you'll have to poke Flam about it. Speaking of this type, why are Frost Witches suddenly less effected/resistant to Holy Magic? They're cursed and the curse has seeped into their physical form, changing their bodys make up to look monsterous and drive them to feast on human flesh. Its both ideally and physically unnatural and impure.

 

2 hours ago, Farryn said:
  •  Divine Wardens - I still see potential within Divine Wardens for the clerics and it is a truly interesting concept for the clerics to have. Although you are right we've been waiting to be grandfathered up to tier 5 Divine Wardens so we can teach it. Since Pandan has not been responding, I will talk to the MT and see about having our characters (along with the chosen teachers) grandfathered up to tier 5 Divine Wardens when the revamp event occurs so that we can actually begin teaching it. We never got to see Divine Wardens in actual roleplay  aside from the creation of sunwells because of the lack of teachers and who knows, maybe it'll be just as good as it sounds compared to just reading the lore. Let's at least give it a proper shot.

I'm all for this if they actually allow us to utilize the magic. Either allow us or scrap it entirely, letting it sit around does nothing for anyone, Flam.

 

2 hours ago, Farryn said:
  • Blessing items to have spell effects - MArts. They are best to infusing a spell within an item. The war blessing is just the simplest attack blessing there is and I feel as though blessings that involve infusing a spell within an object will require a MArt. You can still bless many weapons and many other objects. The only blessing that allows for storing light is storage light - war blessing gives the aurum effectiveness to non-aurum weapons, healing blessing allows for bandages, cloth, etc to be able to heal wounds under tier 3.

Can you make it clear in the blessing section than that once a Cleric blesses a weapon with a war blessing that it will trigger when it comes into contact with taint, like our old blessings did? Reading it currently, it makes it seem like only Clerics can benefit from such a blessing and we can't proactively bless a normal persons weapon to help them fight.

 

Do the healing blessings allow non-Cleric people to benefit from them? I didn't believe so which is why I'm suggesting it be a possibility to Holy Enchant. Maybe even as an addition to Holy Alteration or a new sub-type itself if it needed to be. Healing is the only real use I can think of atm that could benefit from it, having bandages with a Minor Wound spell imbued in it that a medic can use to try and heal minor wounds that would need to be recharged after use or replaced entirely. 

 

2 hours ago, Farryn said:

Tier is misspelled in one of the headers, think it's in the explanation one - Thank you for pointing that out.

 

No problem, friendo.

 

2 hours ago, Farryn said:

Shields - You got Sacred Aegis. May not be the best shield but it's still a shield. It was either that or no shields at all, the paladins get a little mad when I try and make stronger wide shields for us. Angering lions is not the best thing for a stag to do.

 

 See first quote. Lets take back our Keepers and ability to heal then, ya?

 

2 hours ago, Farryn said:

Limiting or ceasing the amount of purity on an area - It's meant to be impurity and it serves the purpose to stop taint from spreading over land, therefore giving time for druids and shamans to gather up and remove it before the taint grows into a size that they cannot handle.

 

I knew what you were trying to say since I understand wards, but someone reading this would be confused.

Link to post
Share on other sites

In the past, shades could be healed by priest healing but it would be more than mild discomfort, instead being really painful. Not sure if this was meant as an intentional change or not, but saw that it said they would just face mild discomfort and figured I'd mention that.

 

Not sure what the larger dispute is regarding shades, I admittedly haven't read all of this, but I am a shade and an LM and am happy to discuss things accordingly.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with squirt on clerics having more freedom with manipulating their light. The current spells for war clerics should act more like a base which a cleric can mess around with once they're in the higher tiers, as opposed to removing and adding spells. 

 

Just an idea, if war cleric magic is unstable and chaotic, wouldn't it make sense to have spells that released the energy like the palm of light spell as opposed to shaping and creating objects out of it?

Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, ski_king3 said:

Yah, the LT and MT basically never do the whole "x deity sends down a message to its followers informing them of y person's crimes and breaking of their oaths." However, it happens very occasionally when a deity magic user does things like going on killing sprees or torturing innocents.

0
 

dont talk to me or my aengul again.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly I still stand by the fact you could have done a lot better of a job on war clericalism, not to say it is your responsibility to work on everything but if you want to put that much effort into healing, which while important I still fail to see the reason why everyone thinks is the most valuable magic for Tahariae. A Aengul that dispite what you may think is written as a selfish and irrational being whose OCD on everything being the way he wants it effects his judgement in every call. Not to mention the stealing of followers from a certain Deity at one point whether cannon or not, he is in no way a "good guy". He doesn't even want his followers to heal people because they are hurt but imperfected. I suggest that until war clericalism is reworked to a better degree in which the people that currently use it are satisfied that this remain for healing and blessing and war clericalism is held off for now. I offered my help on such, but what I was writing is still being written. Either way I won't tell you what to do with your post, I am just merely giving a suggestion. Other than war clericalism everything seems alright, I've still yet to give it an in depth read. But from what I can tell war clericalism seems to remain a bland magic for which is supposed to be the main tool in a deities arsenal. 

Edited by Lynx
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Lynx said:

 A Aengul that dispite what you may think is written as a selfish and irrational being whose OCD on everything being the way he wants it effects his judgement in every call. Not to mention the stealing of followers from a certain Deity at one point whether cannon or not, he is in no way a "good guy". He doesn't even want his followers to heal people because they are hurt but imperfected. 

 

Indeed. Just because they're an Aengul doesn't mean they're good. The title of Aengul is just public perception, they're viewed by the mortals as being the "good guy". He's quite cruel, in truth. Which makes it logical that his light/magic would affect any and all that didn't align themselves with purity and put it to the player's choice of how intense they wished to follow their patrons ideals. 

 

Tahariae is a mess, honestly. Lets just kill him off and start fresh. Right? @The Pink Lion :P

Link to post
Share on other sites

Tah is one of the strictest Aenguls.  That is correct that he isn't kind by any means, however, he has a certain view on what purity is and how he wants his clerics to act on it. By lore, Xan and Tah are brothers in arms. They hold no war against one another. Xan owes Tah a debt given him saving Xan. Itherals were the first creations of pure holy beings. Tah then gave xan the blueprints for him to make keepers. Their magic and beings are what one can state purity truly is and cannot be corrupt in any manner. The ascended are that of Aerial. While yes, their views on how to handle things do not follow with Tah, their very beings still hold a pure, holy flame within themselves and cannot be corrupted nor tainted to cause clerics to enact that of purity within Tah's eyes. Soul Tree druids fall into this given what we are looking here is that of nature. A soul within a tree that isn't tainted nor tampered with. The husk is pure nature, which Tah's magic has washed over and purified it of taint and corruption numerous times. The only reason why Tah would have issue with a Tree Lord is if that tree lord fell corrupted. Other than that, its really not even a priority for him at all. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess one other note I'll toss in is that how Tah has been perceived and RPed has changed vastly over the past four or so years. Initially, Tah was basically a nice Aengul, not much more. But eventually clerics started RPing him differently/interpreting what being the Aengul of Purity meant, and the lore eventually caught up with that. Not sure when Farryn started being a cleric, but it very well could have been during the times of Tahariae the Nice Aengul rather than Tahariae the ****.

 

Also, get rid of the lame utterings and stuff, make them optional flavor stuff it's much cooler that wayyyyyyyyyyyy.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel like those arguing that Tah magic should be capable of harming Keeper's have absolutely no clue what they're talking about especially in regards to Xan's history with Tahariae. Which from what I'm reading is probably true. Tahariae aided Xan in creating his own version of the Itharel, now known as Xan's Keepers. The cleric, Daniel Baelish (Itharel and head macho man at the time i believe) specifically aided in this by helping Xan create the first Keeper, Herun Athna. Further, Xan and Tahariae have a great amount of history spanning back towards the creation of the aengul Xan. When Xan fell, it was his battle brother Tahariae whom revived him so the duo could continue their great conquest.  Now why exactly would Tahariae allow his magic to harm his brother in arms?  

Link to post
Share on other sites

After reading through this, there are some points i enjoy, but many i dislike, and because im a lazy peice of ****, and most people already wrote them out, please direct your attention to squirtguns post,

Link to post
Share on other sites

I really think that, in regards to ALL magic lore, any sort of mechanism of 'bad behavior' detection should be scrubbed from all lore. I think it's terrible form to have a character changing event predicated on a staff member tattle telling. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with squirt. I mean most of the points I don't like are similar to Squirt. Go check that cuz I'm also a lazy piece of ****

Link to post
Share on other sites

Back to my first point:

 

Why does Tah Cleric spells need to effect non-tainted descendents? Why should it harm them? No matter how you put it Light shouldn't really have an effect on things non-tainted and the like. Does anyone else feel this way? 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...