[✗] Tahariaen Clericalism - The Clerics of Tahariae

[Gone 868]

7 hours ago, Sir K Andruske said:

Back to my first point:

 

Why does Tah Cleric spells need to effect non-tainted descendents? Why should it harm them? No matter how you put it Light shouldn't really have an effect on things non-tainted and the like. Does anyone else feel this way? 

 

I agree and can't remember a Cleric ever being able to harm a non-tainted being before. Why should they be able to now? You have normal weapons if you need to defend yourself against someone that isn't tainted.

[Lynx 158]

9 hours ago, Sir K Andruske said:

Back to my first point:

 

Why does Tah Cleric spells need to effect non-tainted descendents? Why should it harm them? No matter how you put it Light shouldn't really have an effect on things non-tainted and the like. Does anyone else feel this way? 

 

 

1

 

 Orb of light has always done blunt damage to things for the longest time, even before I became a cleric which was two years ago. From what I remember it's the only ability we have that does this and was a utility against Necromancers whom are not considered tainted but are still hunted and homunculus who fall under that category as well depending on who you talk to.

 

 It's because of this servers very loose use of the term "taint" and "corruption" and Tahariae's version of such. It's hard to say what we can and cannot effect half the time because of this loose definition and everyone's thought on it being different so a spell that does blunt damage is something that is need for people that partake in a dark art claimed to not "taint" or effect their body but still not considered a grey life(normal descendant) by Tahariae. 

 

 I hope that answers your question somewhat and helps you understand why it is needed.

[BrandNewKitten 2788]

35 minutes ago, Lynx said:

 Orb of light has always done blunt damage to things for the longest time, even before I became a cleric which was two years ago. From what I remember it's the only ability we have that does this and was a utility against Necromancers whom are not considered tainted but are still hunted and homunculus who fall under that category as well depending on who you talk to.

 

 It's because of this servers very loose use of the term "taint" and "corruption" and Tahariae's version of such. It's hard to say what we can and cannot effect half the time because of this loose definition and everyone's thought on it being different so a spell that does blunt damage is something that is need for people that partake in a dark art claimed to not "taint" or effect their body but still not considered a grey life(normal descendant) by Tahariae. 

 

 I hope that answers your question somewhat and helps you understand why it is needed.

0

 

 

 

What I understand from your comment is that its added to fill a weakness. In which case I offer a "why?" Again again. Two "dark beings" aren't affected by the combat magic de-taintifyer and so ALL beings have to be affected to make up for it?

 

This lore and the theme of this lore has to do with light. Purifying light shaped into things. Its still light. Even if you condense it it shouldn't solidify. It just gets brighter, maybe hotter. 

 

I know it has been there forever but with all the talk about magic lately it seemed fitting that I bring up the one grievance I had. Cleric magic is strong and doesn't need Arcanism spells (because that is what it is in effect to those non-tainted beings. Aka a projectile that deals concussive damage) to fill its small gaps.

 

Not that I am complaining about it being an Arcanism spell as I have always seen this type of magic to exist on a spectrum with arcanism and shade magic but when you actually dig into the lore it looks like a singular addition to further the holy power creep. 

 

In my opinion:

 

Clerics > Dark beings 

Commonfolk > Clerics

Dark Beings > Commonfolk

 

But instead right now it is:

 

Clerics > Dark Beings

Commomfolk < Clerics

Dark Beings > Commonfolk

 

 

Give one up for the common man. Not trying to be forceful though. Just trying to get a point across. 

[- Pastry 931]

On 7/30/2017 at 9:07 AM, SquirtGun said:

Why hat is Divine Wardenism still in here as a different subtype when there hasn't been a teacher for it in over a year and we still haven't been grandfathered it since that skype group 6 months ago?

 

To be honest I should be at the point where I can teach.

And speaking of which, Divine Warden and Holy Alteration should be combined. Holy Forges could be d o p e.

[ski_king3 0]

The orbs of light have always harmed regular folk.

 

Personally, I think the whole "holy magic only hurts spooks" is super problematic. It lets holy magic users bullshit tiring, purely combative spells as ones used to "test" dark magic users to see if they're actually tainted or not, something that for the longest time has been a huge redline that holy magic users have repeatedly tried to violate as of late. Making it so they can hurt normal people is hardly an advantage, if anything it means they can't pull a "dark magic test" out of their ass with god-given spells meant purely to be combative.

[Lynx 158]

49 minutes ago, Sir K Andruske said:

 

 

What I understand from your comment is that its added to fill a weakness. In which case I offer a "why?" Again again. Two "dark beings" aren't affected by the combat magic de-taintifyer and so ALL beings have to be affected to make up for it?

 

This lore and the theme of this lore has to do with light. Purifying light shaped into things. Its still light. Even if you condense it it shouldn't solidify. It just gets brighter, maybe hotter. 

 

I know it has been there forever but with all the talk about magic lately it seemed fitting that I bring up the one grievance I had. Cleric magic is strong and doesn't need Arcanism spells (because that is what it is in effect to those non-tainted beings. Aka a projectile that deals concussive damage) to fill its small gaps.

 

Not that I am complaining about it being an Arcanism spell as I have always seen this type of magic to exist on a spectrum with arcanism and shade magic but when you actually dig into the lore it looks like a singular addition to further the holy power creep. 

 

In my opinion:

 

Clerics > Dark beings 

Commonfolk > Clerics

Dark Beings > Commonfolk

 

But instead right now it is:

 

Clerics > Dark Beings

Commomfolk < Clerics

Dark Beings > Commonfolk

 

 

Give one up for the common man. Not trying to be forceful though. Just trying to get a point across. 

0

 

 At the same time could you not say that Arcanism is just condensed mana drawn from the void? Mana that normally has an air like quality? Light is simply mana gifted from an Aengul rather than the users own source, this is explained in a different post on deific powers. It is not far fetched to be able to condense mana into a solid matter as is done in many magic forms.

 

I will point out as well taint and corruption does not mean singularly dark beings in Tahariaes definition, but people and things that twist the natural things into something unnatural such as a necromancer takes normal life force and turns it into necrotic taint. It is the changing of these things that makes it considered "tainted" or "corrupted". It is merely a tool to be used against those that cause such magic but deny any form of it effected their body in a corrupt way.

 

 As well orb of light has been around far longer than Arcanism, dating back to late Aegis and early Asulon from the Paladin order made by Braxis so what I do not understand is how we would be drawing from a magic you had written after the fact? Either way many magics have similarities on the server, though an issue that is something a little to far gone to fix.

Edited August 2, 2017 by Lynx

[BrandNewKitten 2788]

54 minutes ago, Lynx said:

 At the same time could you not say that Arcanism is just condensed mana drawn from the void? Mana that normally has an air like quality? Light is simply mana gifted from an Aengul rather than the users own source, this is explained in a different post on deific powers. It is not far fetched to be able to condense mana into a solid matter as is done in many magic forms.

 

I will point out as well taint and corruption does not mean singularly dark beings in Tahariaes definition, but people and things that twist the natural things into something unnatural such as a necromancer takes normal life force and turns it into necrotic taint. It is the changing of these things that makes it considered "tainted" or "corrupted". It is merely a tool to be used against those that cause such magic but deny any form of it effected their body in a corrupt way.

 

 As well orb of light has been around far longer than Arcanism, dating back to late Aegis and early Asulon from the Paladin order made by Braxis so what I do not understand is how we would be drawing from a magic you had written after the fact? Either way many magics have similarities on the server, though an issue that is something a little to far gone to fix.

0

 

 

But it is all about theme and consistency.

 

In Arcanism's lore, if you have read it, it has everything to do with density and the changing of density. It is not mana or natural element. It is an evoked substance that is able to be shaped and reinforced or loosened. This is part of the core theme. What I am saying is that these few cleric spells do not fit the theme of the rest of the lore. If light is the substance you "evoke" as a cleric and there is no other mention of it condensing or harming gray-beings other than in one (maybe more its a lot of words) spot it is an irregularity. However Paladins weilding similar magic in condensed forms makes sense since it is apart of their core theme. 

 

But it doesn't really matter that its been around since Aegis. Seeing how all other magic from Aegis have changed it isn't a stretch to say this could too. The point of a rewrite is to bring up things that need changing and as a non-cleric this is the one thing I believe should at least be re-looked at. Also! Although dubbed and written by me In Anthos, Arcanism is a more distinct rehashing of the first magic used in Aegis. Not that I am attempting to pull seniority.

 

Ski's point on how it can be too advantagous to have it unaffect gray-beings is the only solid argument I have seen so far as to why it should remain. This goes for chains of light as well. Clerics performing random checks on dark beings specifically is a problem addressed by our report system. Clerics doing tasked checkups on willing cities is just their roleplay.

 

Thematically (in other realms and lore) war clerics usually substitute some of their magic power for mortal weapons. Is that not a common occurence here? Could the effect be different for gray-beings? Minor Rejuvenation? 

[Lynx 158]

11 minutes ago, Sir K Andruske said:

 

But it is all about theme and consistency.

 

In Arcanism's lore, if you have read it, it has everything to do with density and the changing of density. It is not mana or natural element. It is an evoked substance that is able to be shaped and reinforced or loosened. This is part of the core theme. What I am saying is that these few cleric spells do not fit the theme of the rest of the lore. If light is the substance you "evoke" as a cleric and there is no other mention of it condensing or harming gray-beings other than in one (maybe more its a lot of words) spot it is an irregularity. However Paladins weilding similar magic in condensed forms makes sense since it is apart of their core theme. 

 

But it doesn't really matter that its been around since Aegis. Seeing how all other magic from Aegis have changed it isn't a stretch to say this could too. The point of a rewrite is to bring up things that need changing and as a non-cleric this is the one thing I believe should at least be re-looked at. Also! Although dubbed and written by me In Anthos, Arcanism is a more distinct rehashing of the first magic used in Aegis. Not that I am attempting to pull seniority.

 

Ski's point on how it can be too advantagous to have it unaffect gray-beings is the only solid argument I have seen so far as to why it should remain. This goes for chains of light as well.

 

Thematically (in other realms and lore) war clerics usually substitute some of their magic power for mortal weapons. Is that not a common occurence here?

0

 

While I would agree normally if Dark beings actually went along with being effected by holy magic but in all reality the only thing it effects is Shades, Frost witchs, and necrotic creations. Other than that our magic holds no effect. We substitute it for normal weapons out of necessity not want which is why Squirtgun and I have brought up the point of war clericalism needing more work. It is bland left how it is and not to say that is on Farryn. What you want us to remove is the only tool we have that is actually effective at fighting dark mages. Take away for a second the fact it can harm grey life, just because it can doesn't me we as clerics can. There are codes against that and if one were to do it they would be disconnected for it. 

Edited August 2, 2017 by Lynx

[BrandNewKitten 2788]

3 minutes ago, Lynx said:

While I would agree normally if Dark beings actually went along with being effected by holy magic but in all reality the only thing it effects is Shades, Frost witchs, and necrotic creations. Other than that our magic holds no effect. We substitute it for normal weapons out of necessity not want which is why Squirtgun and I have brought up the point of war clericalism needing more work. It is bland left how it is and not to say that is on Farryn. What you want us to remove is the only tool we have that is actually effective at fighting dark mages. Take away for a second the fact it can harm grey life, just because it can doesn't me we as clerics can. Their are codes against that and if one were to do it they would be disconnected for it. 

0

 

 

But are they actually disconnected for it? That clause would make sense if there was a karma tally for them. Hurt a grey-being and big man in the sky goes "Yo. Strike one." After three strikes you are out & have to make a pilgrimage or something. 

(Cuz everyone loves a good pilgrimage. #knightsofthenine) 

 

I think I may be sounding a bit pretenious and because I feel I have made my point as thouroughly as I can I will leave this here. 

 

It is a nice write-up Farryn!

 

 

[Farryn 812]

13 hours ago, Sir K Andruske said:

Back to my first point:

 

Why does Tah Cleric spells need to effect non-tainted descendents? Why should it harm them? No matter how you put it Light shouldn't really have an effect on things non-tainted and the like. Does anyone else feel this way? 

 

 

0

 

 

If you mean in regards to certain war cleric spells?, I will add onto what Lynxy said.

 

It's mostly because the light in terms of Orb of Light and Chains of Damned are relatively physical and can still cause harm to people and the surrounding environment. A near solid orb of light will still cause a knockback on descendants but it will not cause pure harm - the amount of damage it would cause is just a few scratches and the descendant having the breath knocked out of them.  

Palm of Light is a blinding spell that sends forth a powerful flash of light - eyes cannot withstand flashes of light and they can leave us stunned as it is a natural reaction from the eye and the flash, despite coming from a descendant friendly magic, will still be a side effect from the spell being used. The brightness will still harm those who are facing the cleric when they use this spell. This is perfectly natural. Chains of Damned may be an attack but with its ability to grapple around people, clerics can also use it to rescue descendants who have fallen down a hole and struggle to get up, or help bind down an attacking descendant till the guards arrive. Orb of light can help blow apart a structure that is blocking a pathway or rubble that has a descendant underneath. However, clerics are advised not to use the spells to harm the descendants unless utmost necessary - out of self defence, if the descendant is clearly aligned with the enemy, or if it is to assist a descendant (using Chains of Damned to get a descendant to safety).  

Another thing - clerics do not fully focus on dark beings alone, we still need to focus on dark mages who are complete descendants who know a form of magic that is dark. The clerics will still need to be able to combat both the mage and the dark magic itself, especially when it comes to a scenario where the cleric has lost their physical weapon and needs another tool at their disposal - the cleric will be heavily at a disadvantage when it comes to facing a dark mage if their magic cannot do at least some form of effects that can help turn the tides.  So if some of the spells just phrase through the descendants, these spells would lose the mundane purposes and be fully combat, unable to be used just as creatively here and prevents clerics from defending themself in a scenario where a certain war cleric spell will be needed to stop a dark mage.

This lore is still going by what Ventusyr has wrote within the current clerical lore. Within the War Clerical section, just before the spells, Ventusyr wrote this following paragraph:

This lore was accepted and this is how war clericalism has always been roleplayed. The spells do harm the descendants but the worse they can do are a series of scratches, minor pains, and temporary blindness. Whereas with those tainted, the harm would be much worse.

------------------------------

 

I will add on for everyone that the War Clericalism set here is not focused 100% on combat. Yes, I know it is called 'WAR Clericalism' for the exact reason of disposing taint and 'spooks' but I want to give the clerics the ability to use war cleric spells in a more interesting way. Some of the spells can be used in more mundane means such as assisting and ensuring the rescue of descendants when faced with the scenarios I listed above. War Clericalism is still combat majorly, but some of the spells now hold other roles should the cleric be able to use such spells creatively and so that they can co-op with clerics who know Priest Healing instead of just being unable to heal if they do not take up the healing subtype. War Clerics now also hold the ability to save lives with their spells, not just having to be in a fight but in a situation where one of the spells will help when nature strikes, when a descendant is trapped and cannot get out. A war cleric can now aid in using their spells to rescue, instead of fully fighting.

 

But if there is one thing I do want to make clear, it's this: War Clericalism, or any combat magic, should not be fully relied on in a fight - especially given the clerical exhaustion and how long the cleric can keep going. Yes, we can send orbs of light from range and The clerics need to consider the use of their magic carefully and use it to gain an advantage point in a fight, not expect themselves to immediately win because they have the type advantage. We should not fully rely on the magic and expect the clerics to be powerful combat mages like the paladins. The paladins are fine - that is what they are based around, but the clerics are not the best combat mages.

 

You may be saying: "Farryn, we'll be weak against the dark though" - "Farryn, it's our duty to depose of dark beings and mages" - you are right. The clerics do have the role of fighting the darkness, it is the duty of the clerics to stop the darkness spreading and to keep purity. We should be stronger in combat... but we're not as strong as the paladins for one reason. Combating the dark is only half of our duty - there is still another part of the duty that the clerics have and one that is VERY important given that the paladins and ascended are weak in this area. The paladins are made for combat as they are devoted more to fighting living threats such as the drakaars, undead, etc. The Ascended are made to ensure the protection of souls and that all the souls are protected from.  So where does that leave the clerics? To restore purity?

 

There is something I will say: The Paladins and the Ascended lack one faction that the clerics are truly the best in, one factor that is very important when it comes to fighting- Clerics are the best magical healers, tied with the monks. We are utterly powerful when it comes to healing, compared to the paladins and Ascended. The paladins can heal some wounds but not all of them - the Ascended can take the wounds upon themselves but the wounds still take a good amount of hours to naturally heal. As for the clerics? We only face exhaustion but we can heal more wounds than the paladins can ever heal and the wound will be permanently gone without a scar, the cleric will not face the exact pain or bear the wounds like the ascended do. The clerics hold the most important role, they actually save lives from death's doors - a cleric can save someone from the most severe of wounds that mundane and alchemical means cannot heal, we can heal diseases, rejoin limbs that have been cut off, even restore eyesight should a cleric be that powerful. Neither paladins or ascended can do what the clerics can, and that is a role that all the clerics should truly be proud of and be a little more focused on.

 

The paladins and ascended have sacrificed something to become powerful in an area. The paladins are powerful in combat but at the cost, they had to sacrifice their healing to become better warriors, while the ascended have sacrificed their wards so that they can become stronger in a different area. They had to give up some power within an area to become stronger within another and the same applies to the clerics: We are strong in healing but not the best at combat. That has always been a common fact - we can still fight but we cannot bring full destruction to a dark being we are facing alone, a cleric can still take down a dark being or dark mage with proper use of their magic and understanding of the creature before us. However we will struggle a little more than the paladins, who’s spell roster is made for combat. If multiple clerics work together then yes, but clerics have always been naturally weaker. Else, clerics would be powerful in both healing, warding, and combat and would become extremely unbalanced - the complete opposite to what this revamp intended to do. This revamp was not to make the clerics combat heavy - it was part of a major project to make the holy magics more defined with their roles.

 

The paladins willingly gave up their healing to make the clerics better healers, the Ascended willingly gave up their warding to make the clerics better warders. They disliked doing this but they did it so that our community of clerics would have more strengths. Therefore we had to give up something in return - and that was being powerful fighters. Delmodan and Jallentime made their order’s lores weaker in healing and warding so that we could become strong in them, therefore I want to do the same through making clerics weaker in combat (not too weak of course) so that the clerics are balanced and that we aren’t giving the middle finger to the other two.

 

“We aren’t the best healers”, I apologise Squirtgun, Seventh, and everyone who disagrees but you are wrong. The clerics come out as the strongest healers out of the paladins, ascended, and all over magics. The monks may be stronger but they are not active, their magic has been shelved. The clerics are the strongest active healers on the server and we will never be powerful in combat. The clerics will never harm the Ascended or Keepers because of canon lore and the fact the clerics were never once told by LT or Tahariae RPly to go after them ever since the first clerical lore was written back in Anthos-Asulon. It will make no sense for Tahariae to decide such after 4-5 realms where the Ascended and Keepers have been around.

I know you all  want change but what you want is the change that none of us want, nor ever need. I respect that you want to make the clerics strong but you must understand that the clerics of Tahariae never were the powerful combat users. Our great healing comes at a cost but I have made war clericalism different and more helpful. We can fight but we are not the paladins, but we are clerics and aiding people for purity is what we strive to do This is for the sake of keeping the clerics balanced, just like how the paladins and ascended are now balanced. The Ascended and Keepers are not impure and they will never be affected negatively by the clerical light. This is not because they are my friends… it’s because this is canon lore and I would rather not break it and cause more loopholes in the paladin, ascended, and clerical lores after the lore writers, both now and old, put so much effort into writing them and to not suddenly mess up any roleplay between the orders over something that has never happened for 3-4 years.

 

I am sorry but… that’s what I have to say.

Any mistakes that need to be fixed will be fixed, such as errors in spelling, grammar, changelog, etc. However, I appreciate all of the feedback that was given.

[GDPR 014 23]

On 7/30/2017 at 5:03 PM, Tsuyose said:

dont talk to me or my aengul again.

 

but ill sure tickle xan's pickle

[Bvie 1754]

2 hours ago, Sir K Andruske said:

 

But are they actually disconnected for it? That clause would make sense if there was a karma tally for them. Hurt a grey-being and big man in the sky goes "Yo. Strike one." After three strikes you are out & have to make a pilgrimage or something. 

(Cuz everyone loves a good pilgrimage. #knightsofthenine) 

 

 

I've been on the receiving end of this, where someone lied to another Cleric that I used holy magic against an innocent person 6 IRL months prior.

 

They didn't even ask for my side of the story, didn't listen to anything I tried to say, and attempted to disconnect me when I hadn't even known the spell they were accusing me of using against the individual OR when I was being accused. 

 

But apparently thats OKAY to do. Yet, the accusing cleric killed my unborn child (The most innocent of all innocents) by trying to do this, by putting stress and anger on an expectant woman, and got away with it. 

 

Clericalism is a mess.

 

 

As for why I feel holy magic should affect mortals, besides being the tool to fight dark mages, is that mortals aren't totally pure. They're classified as Grey, having both light and dark within them, the ability to become something impure as they're not pure. 

 

Its why our magics physical and blunt aspects will work on them, but not the burning affect. Chains would hold them in place, but not burn. Orbs would be hitting them with blunt damage, but no holy light damage, etc.

1 hour ago, Farryn said:

 

“We aren’t the best healers”, I apologise Squirtgun, Seventh, and everyone who disagrees but you are wrong.

2

 

 

Sorry to say, but even LT says we're not the strongest. Not even the second. Flam can confirm.

[BrandNewKitten 2788]

2 hours ago, Farryn said:

 

If you mean in regards to certain war cleric spells?, I will add onto what Lynxy said.

 

It's mostly because the light in terms of Orb of Light and Chains of Damned are relatively physical and can still cause harm to people and the surrounding environment. A near solid orb of light will still cause a knockback on descendants but it will not cause pure harm - the amount of damage it would cause is just a few scratches and the descendant having the breath knocked out of them.  

Palm of Light is a blinding spell that sends forth a powerful flash of light - eyes cannot withstand flashes of light and they can leave us stunned as it is a natural reaction from the eye and the flash, despite coming from a descendant friendly magic, will still be a side effect from the spell being used. The brightness will still harm those who are facing the cleric when they use this spell. This is perfectly natural. Chains of Damned may be an attack but with its ability to grapple around people, clerics can also use it to rescue descendants who have fallen down a hole and struggle to get up, or help bind down an attacking descendant till the guards arrive. Orb of light can help blow apart a structure that is blocking a pathway or rubble that has a descendant underneath. However, clerics are advised not to use the spells to harm the descendants unless utmost necessary - out of self defence, if the descendant is clearly aligned with the enemy, or if it is to assist a descendant (using Chains of Damned to get a descendant to safety).  

Another thing - clerics do not fully focus on dark beings alone, we still need to focus on dark mages who are complete descendants who know a form of magic that is dark. The clerics will still need to be able to combat both the mage and the dark magic itself, especially when it comes to a scenario where the cleric has lost their physical weapon and needs another tool at their disposal - the cleric will be heavily at a disadvantage when it comes to facing a dark mage if their magic cannot do at least some form of effects that can help turn the tides.  So if some of the spells just phrase through the descendants, these spells would lose the mundane purposes and be fully combat, unable to be used just as creatively here and prevents clerics from defending themself in a scenario where a certain war cleric spell will be needed to stop a dark mage.

This lore is still going by what Ventusyr has wrote within the current clerical lore. Within the War Clerical section, just before the spells, Ventusyr wrote this following paragraph:

This lore was accepted and this is how war clericalism has always been roleplayed. The spells do harm the descendants but the worse they can do are a series of scratches, minor pains, and temporary blindness. Whereas with those tainted, the harm would be much worse.

------------------------------

 

I will add on for everyone that the War Clericalism set here is not focused 100% on combat. Yes, I know it is called 'WAR Clericalism' for the exact reason of disposing taint and 'spooks' but I want to give the clerics the ability to use war cleric spells in a more interesting way. Some of the spells can be used in more mundane means such as assisting and ensuring the rescue of descendants when faced with the scenarios I listed above. War Clericalism is still combat majorly, but some of the spells now hold other roles should the cleric be able to use such spells creatively and so that they can co-op with clerics who know Priest Healing instead of just being unable to heal if they do not take up the healing subtype. War Clerics now also hold the ability to save lives with their spells, not just having to be in a fight but in a situation where one of the spells will help when nature strikes, when a descendant is trapped and cannot get out. A war cleric can now aid in using their spells to rescue, instead of fully fighting.

 

But if there is one thing I do want to make clear, it's this: War Clericalism, or any combat magic, should not be fully relied on in a fight - especially given the clerical exhaustion and how long the cleric can keep going. Yes, we can send orbs of light from range and The clerics need to consider the use of their magic carefully and use it to gain an advantage point in a fight, not expect themselves to immediately win because they have the type advantage. We should not fully rely on the magic and expect the clerics to be powerful combat mages like the paladins. The paladins are fine - that is what they are based around, but the clerics are not the best combat mages.

 

You may be saying: "Farryn, we'll be weak against the dark though" - "Farryn, it's our duty to depose of dark beings and mages" - you are right. The clerics do have the role of fighting the darkness, it is the duty of the clerics to stop the darkness spreading and to keep purity. We should be stronger in combat... but we're not as strong as the paladins for one reason. Combating the dark is only half of our duty - there is still another part of the duty that the clerics have and one that is VERY important given that the paladins and ascended are weak in this area. The paladins are made for combat as they are devoted more to fighting living threats such as the drakaars, undead, etc. The Ascended are made to ensure the protection of souls and that all the souls are protected from.  So where does that leave the clerics? To restore purity?

 

There is something I will say: The Paladins and the Ascended lack one faction that the clerics are truly the best in, one factor that is very important when it comes to fighting- Clerics are the best magical healers, tied with the monks. We are utterly powerful when it comes to healing, compared to the paladins and Ascended. The paladins can heal some wounds but not all of them - the Ascended can take the wounds upon themselves but the wounds still take a good amount of hours to naturally heal. As for the clerics? We only face exhaustion but we can heal more wounds than the paladins can ever heal and the wound will be permanently gone without a scar, the cleric will not face the exact pain or bear the wounds like the ascended do. The clerics hold the most important role, they actually save lives from death's doors - a cleric can save someone from the most severe of wounds that mundane and alchemical means cannot heal, we can heal diseases, rejoin limbs that have been cut off, even restore eyesight should a cleric be that powerful. Neither paladins or ascended can do what the clerics can, and that is a role that all the clerics should truly be proud of and be a little more focused on.

 

The paladins and ascended have sacrificed something to become powerful in an area. The paladins are powerful in combat but at the cost, they had to sacrifice their healing to become better warriors, while the ascended have sacrificed their wards so that they can become stronger in a different area. They had to give up some power within an area to become stronger within another and the same applies to the clerics: We are strong in healing but not the best at combat. That has always been a common fact - we can still fight but we cannot bring full destruction to a dark being we are facing alone, a cleric can still take down a dark being or dark mage with proper use of their magic and understanding of the creature before us. However we will struggle a little more than the paladins, who’s spell roster is made for combat. If multiple clerics work together then yes, but clerics have always been naturally weaker. Else, clerics would be powerful in both healing, warding, and combat and would become extremely unbalanced - the complete opposite to what this revamp intended to do. This revamp was not to make the clerics combat heavy - it was part of a major project to make the holy magics more defined with their roles.

 

The paladins willingly gave up their healing to make the clerics better healers, the Ascended willingly gave up their warding to make the clerics better warders. They disliked doing this but they did it so that our community of clerics would have more strengths. Therefore we had to give up something in return - and that was being powerful fighters. Delmodan and Jallentime made their order’s lores weaker in healing and warding so that we could become strong in them, therefore I want to do the same through making clerics weaker in combat (not too weak of course) so that the clerics are balanced and that we aren’t giving the middle finger to the other two.

 

“We aren’t the best healers”, I apologise Squirtgun, Seventh, and everyone who disagrees but you are wrong. The clerics come out as the strongest healers out of the paladins, ascended, and all over magics. The monks may be stronger but they are not active, their magic has been shelved. The clerics are the strongest active healers on the server and we will never be powerful in combat. The clerics will never harm the Ascended or Keepers because of canon lore and the fact the clerics were never once told by LT or Tahariae RPly to go after them ever since the first clerical lore was written back in Anthos-Asulon. It will make no sense for Tahariae to decide such after 4-5 realms where the Ascended and Keepers have been around.

I know you all  want change but what you want is the change that none of us want, nor ever need. I respect that you want to make the clerics strong but you must understand that the clerics of Tahariae never were the powerful combat users. Our great healing comes at a cost but I have made war clericalism different and more helpful. We can fight but we are not the paladins, but we are clerics and aiding people for purity is what we strive to do This is for the sake of keeping the clerics balanced, just like how the paladins and ascended are now balanced. The Ascended and Keepers are not impure and they will never be affected negatively by the clerical light. This is not because they are my friends… it’s because this is canon lore and I would rather not break it and cause more loopholes in the paladin, ascended, and clerical lores after the lore writers, both now and old, put so much effort into writing them and to not suddenly mess up any roleplay between the orders over something that has never happened for 3-4 years.

 

I am sorry but… that’s what I have to say.

Any mistakes that need to be fixed will be fixed, such as errors in spelling, grammar, changelog, etc. However, I appreciate all of the feedback that was given.

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1 hour ago, SquirtGun said:

 

I've been on the receiving end of this, where someone lied to another Cleric that I used holy magic against an innocent person 6 IRL months prior.

 

They didn't even ask for my side of the story, didn't listen to anything I tried to say, and attempted to disconnect me when I hadn't even known the spell they were accusing me of using against the individual OR when I was being accused. 

 

But apparently thats OKAY to do. Yet, the accusing cleric killed my unborn child (The most innocent of all innocents) by trying to do this, by putting stress and anger on an expectant woman, and got away with it. 

 

Clericalism is a mess.

 

 

As for why I feel holy magic should affect mortals, besides being the tool to fight dark mages, is that mortals aren't totally pure. They're classified as Grey, having both light and dark within them, the ability to become something impure as they're not pure. 

 

Its why our magics physical and blunt aspects will work on them, but not the burning affect. Chains would hold them in place, but not burn. Orbs would be hitting them with blunt damage, but no holy light damage, etc.

 

Sorry to say, but even LT says we're not the strongest. Not even the second. Flam can confirm.

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Squirt your 4th paragraph is the most logical way to put it and I hadn't thought about it like that. Must be my helf purist bias coming through but despite that I agree with you.

 

 

And thank you Farryn for walking me through all that. It is nice to see people passionate about the magic they are writing for!

[Farryn 812]

1 hour ago, SquirtGun said:

 

Sorry to say, but even LT says we're not the strongest. Not even the second. Flam can confirm.

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Are you certain that he said clerics? Not paladins or another group?

[GodEmperorFlam 3447]

To clarify, now that monk magic is out of the way, I do think clerics hold a high position within the healing community. In terms of overall ability, clerics can be seen as the best. Paladins have shitty healing, and Ascended have the downside of crippling themselves with taking on the injuries, and alchemists (yes I consider alchemists as potential healers) can not handle taint or other spooky injuries. Druids are high up there with super herbs and it really depends how skilled they are before you can rank them on a power level.