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[✗] Gunpowder, Cannon and Arquebus Lore


Hanrahan
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Aggressive Preface

 

This lore will not open the Pandoras box of badly written gun lore. We will not have sniper rifles and revolvers, nor helicopters and miniguns. The reason for that is we have a very strict lore team who supervises the accepting of lore who most assuredly will not accept and tolerate a player using a minigun if they do not tolerate minor infractions of lore such as pink Ologs. ;)

 

Secondary preface:

 

Many of the rules I have laid out are simply a 'Throw out to the wind', and most likely subject to change with further discussion with the War team and Tech teams. I would suggest focusing on the RP guidelines of usage, and the lore behind the weaponry.

 

 

 

Gunpowder, Cannon and Arquebus Lore

 


 

Summary

 

    The above topics have been a very big debate and issue in lotc both mechanically and lore wise, with a number of questions as to how to prevent powergaming, ruining the feel of the server, disrupting whatever pvp balance that people pretend there is, and more so whatever RP combat balance people pretend there is. In this I shall try to address every single point of contention with not only a rebuttal, but with the beginnings of lore behind it.

 

 

The Lore

 

    Cannons have been known to the four races before, until one of the key sources of ignition was lost due to geographical movement and little raw nitrate ore could be found within the new continents. The lack of the chief ingredient of the explosive powder forced a stop to most artillery production, as a cannon without propellant was of no use at all. However, in the late 17th century it made a startling comeback in a most unexpected source. Throughout the centuries, peasant farmers used a roundabout way of manufacturing the craved ingredient that the  world has long forgotten about, at least in scientific circles. Over the course of a year in a peasant household, a large tub in a separate cellar from the house would be filled with the feces of both human and animal residents. By the month's end, it would be an extremely foul mess of decaying and composting material - which would then be dumped piecemeal into another large bin of boiling water. Left over the course of a few days with a dumping of wood shavings, a thin white crystalline scum would form over top, and be siphoned off. This substance called ‘Calfgut’ would then be stored and used as meat preservation, a substitute for brine where none could be had. Little did the average peasant know however, that this ‘Calfgut’ was in fact the Nitre of old Asulon and Aegis, and of incredible value as a principal part of the manufacture of powder.

 

The exact discovery of this occurred in the late 17th century, a chemist finally made the connection between Nitre and Calfgut, and seized upon it. Most of the 13th century scrolls of the manufacture had however not been preserved, due to the utter lack of need for their recipes with the absence of Nitre, thus the method of mixing had to be rediscovered. This so far was the largest hitch in the rediscovery of the powder - mixing it with every alchemical substance they could find, from iron fillings to bark to thanium powder to vegetable dust. Eventually, the exhaustive list of substances were ruled down to a smaller list, involving sulfur, Nitre and charcoal.

 

The ratios were another lost puzzle piece, and it took a great deal of funding, explosions and time to rediscover a sensible ratio - the powder being mostly Nitre, to keep the more volatile ingredients from exploding from static contact, pressure or heat. Once that puzzle piece fit in, it was time to learn how to cast cannons, which would be another issue entirely. The basic concept was of course there, that much had not been lost, but the finicky techniques of keeping the cannon together was a mystery to be solved.

 

Inspirations were taken from Manna cannons, at least in form - but the forges of the Empire had not been equipped or built to deal with casting for anything larger than a suit of armour. Clearly, larger industry was needed. Of course with most mold casting, a divot in rock or hardened clay is made with the molten metal poured into it, then cooled and refined into whatever it may be, an arrowhead or a spear point. For the casting of one-piece cannons, a different method would have to be found. A number of methods were tried, with mixed success, until a clever smith invented a casting method of clay and sand casting, making a hollow mold, that with sufficient reinforcement and size could carry the weight of a cannon.

 

As for the Matchlock, it was only a matter of time before someone had the idea of a portable cannon in miniature - experimentation occurred with powder ratios and shrinkage of the barrel, until a satisfactory balance was found between lethality and convenience. The result was a relatively light weapon with a long barrel, and wooden stock to give shouldering capability for stability. As for the technology involved, it is hardly more complex than a cannon - a trigger activates a hook with a burning wick to flick down upon the open hole, thus igniting the gun, and away one goes.

 

 

The Mechanics

 

Mechanically we have two different fields here, cannons for sieges and battles, and muskets and pistols for day to day usage.

 

Cannons on the battlefield are a simpler beast to deal with, both in RP and PVP mechanically. I have always thought there is extremely little difference between a cannon and a catapult in LotC due to the mechanics of how we use them. A GM reads a code as to how to ‘play’ the cannon, and once operated successfully by a crew, the GM would then ‘fire’ the cannon, and based upon the pre-written code, do damage accordingly. The code will be as follows.

 

To use a cannon on a battlefield, a flat cost of usage would be 1500 Minas.

 

 

Once the cannon is properly built, a team of men will have to go through the proper emotes as to work it before it can fire, as any other piece of LotC siege machinery.

 

  • A man must take a powder charge and stuff it in the barrel.

  • A man must then load a stone ball shot.

  • Ram the shot in.

  • Lock the wheels in place if on land, push it forward if on sea.

  • Punch a needle through the ignition hole.

  • Apply the the fire via smouldering stick.

  • Fire the cannon.

  • Swab the cannon.

  • Repeat.

Now, the actual effects of the cannon will depend on the substance being fired upon. For anti-infantry attacks, I would suggest a firecharge be thrown launched from a dispenser that could sit on the front of the cannon.

 

As for siege mechanics, that’s a different animal altogether, but not so difficult to tackle, I reckon. It would depend on two factors - the size of the cannon, and the material and size of the wall.

 

  • Should the cannon be a 1x4 barrel culverin, one block may be removed if the substance the target hits is wooden, or a wall of stone 1 block deep.

  • Should the cannon be a large barrel bombard of 1x1x5 it will do five to six blocks worth of damage to a wooden structure, or stone structure of one blocks depth. Should a stone wall be more than one block in depth, it will do one or two block’s damage to the structure.

  • The actual firing range will be limited, with a maximum block range of 25 blocks.

 

Muskets (Matchlocks, to be specific)

 

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With Cannons done, I would now like to move onto the matchlock rifle. The deep seated fear in the community is that the weapons will be overpowered, overused, and abused like any other incredibly powerful magic or tool. My idea is to mostly circumnavigate this by implementing a physical, mechanical series of weapons using the old Anthos staff model. This would work to the servers benefit in two ways.

 

  • To Refresh, in Anthos, there were charged staves that shot out a line of fire that upon hitting someone did a large amount of damage and did minor knockback. Essentially, an arrow that didn’t drop down, but traveled straight. Coupled with a long reload time, you essentially have a mechanical PVP rifle. Long reload? Check. Ammunition in the form of Emeralds? Check. Straight fire shooting and little skill to use? Check.

 

  • Because of the complexity, and let’s face it - the danger of powergaming, nobody wants to see every old peasant whip out a preloaded matchlock and sock a bullet into the Emperor’s chest - I would mandate that to rp using a pistol or musket, you must have the MC item on your person as well, or the RP is considered void.

 

  • In order to build these muskets and handguns, I believe the best way to regulate it would to either put it behind a fairly skillful tinkerer and smith - for the parts and assembly, of course, make it a multi-skill build, or have GMs name the item as someone in RP builds it. Both would make the process slow, and give rarity to the items.

 

  • The obtaining of gunpowder could remain as it is in Nexus crafting, or it could be edited to reflect the methods of which it’s gathered - which would take some plugin crafting. I would suggest a drop of poop when you kill cows, then you put the poop into a cauldron and boil it into Nitre/Gunpowder, or go the extra mile and make them combine it with charcoal and ‘Sulphur’ (Possibly a drop of magma powder while mining), then combine all of that into gunpowder.

 

  • Mechanically, they would work like the staffs of Anthos did.

    • Slow reload, five to ten seconds.

    • Consumable ammunition, a firework charge.

    • Incredibly high damage output - enough to pop a man in full iron armour.

 

  • As for the RP useage of the matchlock weapons, that is another can of worms entirely. Like every other form of RP, it is susceptible to idiocy, and unfortunately we cannot make a rule against that. However, we can try our best with clear, concise guidelines. It’s too heavy handed to write every single rule for these, but here are a series of guidelines that might have a go at reducing the abuse these weapons might face.

 

  • As with all weaponry of a ranged variety, it cannot be a one shot weapon.

  • Due to the burning wick nature of the matchlock, the fuse must be lit as an RP action before use.

  • If it is raining and outdoors, make sure you notice this. The gun will not work.

  • Although a gun, it is by no means a modern weapon. Wounds are eminently survivable, and no more dangerous than a crossbow bolt or arrow. In some cases, less damaging.

  • Muskets can be carried preloaded, but the pan must still be filled with ignition powder and the wick must be lit before they are fired.


 

Now, because of the nature of people (inherently noob), a roll system would be the best way to settle disputes before they happen with range and accuracy citations and all that garbage we see with crossbows.

 

  • If it is not raining, the shooter must roll for a successful ignition, and score 5+/20. (Roll over 5 to fire your musket.) If the shooter rolls under a 5, they must emote putting powder into the pan of their musket again.

  • Instead of the shooter rolling for accuracy, the target will roll for it instead. To not be hit, the person being shot at must roll above 15/20. (Roll over 15 to not get hit by a musket.)

  • Any shot that lands (the victim rolls below 15/20) will translate into a wound, with the lower number increasing the severity and accuracy. Should a man fire, and the shot victim rolls a 1, the shot would find it’s mark and be as damaging as possible. (The closer your roll is to 1, the more injured you are.)

  • At extremely close ranges - two blocks or less, (I.E. execution-type scenarios where the target is not moving very fast or immobilized.), the shooter will roll for ignition, like any other scenario. The target, however, will be hit no matter what.

  • When you fire the weapon, you must announce over shout: [!] A Gunshot echoes over the landscape. [!]

 

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Plate armour will not stop a bullet, don’t talk about that.

 

Edited by Hanrahan
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Well written, but no thank you. I like the server's base lore how it is. I don't think that any sort of gunpowder firearms work well with the lore and Minecraft mechanics

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12 minutes ago, Hanrahan said:

 

  • Mechanically, they would work like the staffs of Anthos did.

    • Slow reload, five to ten seconds.

    • Consumable ammunition, a firework charge.

    • Incredibly high damage output - enough to pop a man in full iron armour.

If this were to be implemented I would like to see a large chance to misfire and miss its target (perhaps shots don't head in an exactly straight path and are more likely to miss the target depending on the distance of the intended target). Also 1 shotting somebody in full armor is simply not interactive. Perhaps just half-health them.

 

 

But even with all of those things I still have no interest in seeing this lore on the server. I agree with what has already been said in the comments:

2 minutes ago, Balthasar said:

Well written, but no thank you. I like the server's base lore how it is.

0
 

 

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I like this though muskets and flintlock pistols need a re-write in my opinion. Pistols should be able to malfunction at close range aswell, either jamming or exploding. 1-3 explode, 4-8 jam, 9-17 is a miss from medium range but a hit at close range (I.E 2 or 1 block away, maybe 3 i'll have to check) and an 18-20 is a hit regardless of it being medium or close. These weapons are not designed for long range so forget about your gobbo sniper ideas bois! Idk about muskets though, i'd assume its the same but on a 9-10 it flies off course (due to the long barrel this is rare) 11-17 its a medium range hit and 18 to 20 is 'long' range hit (i'd still say its not that far away though)

 

Edit: Im willing to help with writing own lore for muskets and flintlocks, seeing that thks system COULD be un-balanced

Edited by Tidemanno
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Oh boy here we go.

 

So normally I would tend to give more feedback on the lore itself but the lore itself, I think, is very straightforward. It's roughly parallel to European technological history with references to previous instances of firearms being seen within the LotC setting. What is obviously the really important thing here is the precedent this lore sets, the massive theme change we end up with, and the various rebalancing we would have to consider for this.

 

My personal opinion doesn't matter much but I do have personal experience of player attitudes being fluid season-to-season. I think a definite, VERY definite risk here is that players will poll to want tech (or magi-tech, at least, judging from current poll status), but will quickly change their mind when the implementation of it is lackluster or not what they expected. If this happens, and it COULD happen no matter how skilled the writers and LMs working on it, retconning becomes insanely difficult. And in that case we opened the flood gates and we're stuck with a theme that doesn't quite work, and many people writing sub-par lore to get a piece of it.

 

But at least the spotlight will of be off of magic for once ;)

 

just kidding...

 

When it comes to firearms ip se, I favor a compromise solution of the 14th century hand-cannon: A triggerless firearm that requires manual ignition to be fired. I think this solution would offer all of the "flavor" that characters require of their firearms: a newfangled technology that is unwieldy but very fun to experiment with, very much in its infancy. On the other hand, it would be much easier to balance and would retain its status as a niche item. The hand cannon, in medieval times, was used by a select few specialist troops of certain cultures (specifically Chinese), while the matchlock would historically go on to become the new battlefield staple that everybody uses. Obviously, in LotC, we don't want swordfights to be outphased by musket batallions.

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1 minute ago, Sporadic said:

Oh boy here we go.

 

Will edit.

 

I'm aware there's plenty of "Oh, can the techies do this?" And I'd like to discuss that with you if I can, because I don't want to ask the impossible of you.

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Just now, Hanrahan said:

I'm aware there's plenty of "Oh, can the techies do this?" And I'd like to discuss that with you if I can, because I don't want to ask the impossible of you.

 

 I am here with my LM hat on the tech point of view we can discuss later.

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Regardless of guidelines set, firearms are a detriment to roleplay. You can't realistically dodge an arrow or bolt from moderate range, never mind a thumb sized beats-all slug. No thanks, man.

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My only question is if the lore for these cannons is accepted, I would want to know how gunpowder cannons would compare to rune cannons (already lore accepted, and purchasable for sieges). Before lots of lore for these things get accepted people will have to balance them with pre-existing alternatives.

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11 minutes ago, Temp said:

Regardless of guidelines set, firearms are a detriment to roleplay. You can't realistically dodge an arrow or bolt from moderate range, never mind a thumb sized beats-all slug. No thanks, man.

 

You dont have to dodge them, just luck out and hope they miss wich they most likely will unless at close range AND at that range you should of already cut theor arm off, LITLERALY dissarming them. Read my comment above wich explains a system for it wich makes it balanced. (A run down of how the rolls SHOULD work)

Edited by Tidemanno
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I like the way you think Sporadic, and I think if we could sit down and make some nice healthy edits to that, I'd like to see it passed in your view. You've got a +1 compromise from me, friend.

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3 minutes ago, Tidemanno said:

You dont have to dodged them, just luck out and hope they miss wich they most likely will unless at close range AND at that range you should of already cut theor arm off, LITLERALY dissarming them. Read my comment above wich explains a system for it wich makes it balanced. (A run down of how the rolls SHOULD work)

 

But this doesn't make anything balanced. You're literally requiring fighters with ranged equipment to stand within spear poking distance to stand any genuine chance of getting a hit off. It defeats the purpose of the tool entirely but even with that in mind, sticking to any form of realism, folks wouldn't struggle to hit one another at moderate distances and gunpowder essentially made bulky suits of armor worthless. 

If I wanted to mess around on a renaissance/post-renaissance server, I'd look into joining a server with that theme.

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3 minutes ago, Temp said:

If I wanted to mess around on a renaissance/post-renaissance server, I'd look into joining a server with that theme

Exactly why we should keep this type of lore out of LoTC.

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22 minutes ago, Cpt_Noobman said:

My only question is if the lore for these cannons is accepted, I would want to know how gunpowder cannons would compare to rune cannons (already lore accepted, and purchasable for sieges). Before lots of lore for these things get accepted people will have to balance them with pre-existing alternatives.

 

My guess is that rune cannons could either be made into a cultural variant or a specialized artillery piece, preferably the latter. I would like to see reforms to siege engines because there is hardly any advantage or difference between current devices.

Edited by Fishy
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16 minutes ago, Temp said:

If I wanted to mess around on a renaissance/post-renaissance server, I'd look into joining a server with that theme.

 

yeah i'm with this guy... if your not into the fantasy rp anymore i'm sure there is a rp server with guns out there somewhere for you.

 

edit, idk just a rant well i'm sick:

also i mean idk if its just me but for the poster of this lore, if your gonna write game changing lotc lore, first of all i'd rather see some rp done for this. also, use exact dates not broad terms of centuries and stuff like that. you just use a general thing of oh this stuff got invented, who invented them, how were they invented in my pov its just a poor attempt to make us a renaissance server instead of a fantasy server. 

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