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[✗] Infernic Castors; Firearms


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Allow me to delve into a bit of history and ballistic theory here. Firstly, the initial method of making barrels, primarily for blunderbusses because they don't need as smooth of a bore to hold a single projectile, due to holding a cluster of small projectiles, was simply to hammer a bunch of nails and other scrap into a circular tube, welding all the while. That being said, this was a long, slow process, usually halted by the necessity of other, more urgent projects. A musket barrel, notice not a rifle barrel, took even longer, because the weapon first had to be forged, due to the fact that cast iron was weaker and heavier, and then milled with a drill and oil press. There wasn't any sort of mass-manufacturing of arms and cartridges until after the industrial revolution, where you had machines that could rapidly mill barrels. The only other way to crank out weapons on any sort of rapid scale would be to put a pack of individuals to work, all doing the same thing. And that's not to include making use of the trigger mechanisms, which requires skill more akin to that of a fledgling watchmaker. 

Now, to ballistics. The assumption is that these weapons will be an effective replacement of crossbows, longbows, arbalests, shortbows, recurve bows, and every other ranged combat apparatus being used thus far. Asides from the fact that making and acquiring these will be difficult, there's also the fact that early firearms were nothing even close to being as effective as their modern counterparts. The biggest benefit of ballistics to date is rifling, something missing in these early weapons. Without rifling to put the spin on the projectile and stabilize it, the bullet being fired is much more likely to miss. This is why you had those great big lines during firearm battles. It was to increase the chances of targets actually being hit. Now, when rifling became common practice, that became a horrible method of fighting because you could actually hit your target at that point. It's why there was such long barreled weapons, because that would assist in accuracy to some degree. But these are weapons seen in the 18th century, towards the end of the century. We're talking starting weapons. Let's consider range, firstly. The longbow, and by extension the properly trained bowman, had a maximum effective range of roughly 300 meters. Accounts vary, lengthening or shortening that distance, but this is still a long way. So important was the ability of the bowman to hit his target at that range that archery was the only sport or art allowed to be practiced on Sundays, bar none. No training of any sort was done except for that conducted by archers. Of course, this was a fully trained bowman, not your average peasant or warrior. Which is why recurve and short bows were so popular amongst hunters, due to them requiring less strength to use, but similar levels of skill. The crossbow is the exception, being a layman's weapon. It took less skill to use, and a superbly made crossbow could even begin to hit targets at the distance that the longbow could. However, getting such a weapon was an expensive affair, and most crossbowmen and arbalesters were equipped with weapons made using cheaper, less refined techniques. Still much easier to hammer out than a firearm. Now let's look at the firearms. The longest effective range against moderately armored targets is the long musket, being about 63 meters, where 1 meter equals 1 block in game. To fire it, it takes between 3 and 5 emotes, as opposed to an archer's 2. At such range, without rifling, the chances of landing a hit where the musketeer was aiming is lackluster. This range falls well within the range of a longbow and even a decently made crossbow or a shabbily made arbalest. A crossbow can be loaded, aimed, and fired in three emotes. The bow, as I said earlier, can achieve the same thing in two. Given that the aggressor has decent eyesight, they are able to competently land shots on the musketeer, because their projectile will fly straighter, for as far, and still be dangerous. The only time a firearm shines is in close quarters, where it has the velocity and impact to actually make something happen. And, even then, this breaks from history in that plate armor will be able to stop the round, at the cost a sizable dent. The only weapon that will make a hole through plate, a big one, at that, is the blunderbuss, which quickly becomes less effective. Now, I won't get into the concept of bulletproof body armor, as the real danger isn't stopping the bullet but the force of the bullet as it tries to transfer through. That's why ceramic body armor craters and polystyrene armor lets the bullet melt it and freeze in place. It's why steel alone isn't necessarily a good choice, because that big dent dimpling inwards will still cause damage. The nice benefit of most armor at this time, however, is there's standoff between the plate and the body, and there's padding and chain mail in between.

There's one last thing, to reinforce the mechanical point. Anything being done to dodge having to roll for the weapon as it fires, skimping on emotes, and trying to make the weapon without lore approval is powergaming. If it's done, it's as punishable as a mage calling down lightning with one emote. The weapon can't be acquired through event loot, the powder can't be made by alchemists outside of the circle, and it'll be tracked who all has the weapon. I would even go so far as to make it a requirement that there be a paper trail for if the weapon is looted, with the original owner informing the right people of the weapon having been snagged. The looter, however, would soon find themselves out of powder and shot, and carrying around a nice club, provided that the weapon doesn't malfunction or misfire in some way.

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1 hour ago, Skellington said:

we dont need guns pls stop

 

We dont need 50 different magic types either.

59 minutes ago, Skellington said:

then it'll go to one-shot killing everyone

Rules would be set just like magic has rules, One-shot kills in any form is not allowed so no it wont happen, if it does tell them to read the server rules. Why should you be allowed to shoot magic missiles but not use a gun. They could easily be regulated to fit the server just like magic and everything else.

 

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rubbing-bridge-of-nose.gif

 

The only thing my mind can produce as an opinion is a loud and ubnoxious "mmmmegghhh"

I'm seriously in dubio regarding guns. On one hand I like the idea of gunslinger types, on the other I think this will pose quite a significant cultural switch of the entire server as bows / crossbows will soon be no longer needed once these guns are more easily obtainable goods.

 

I see no issues balance wise, as I am very certain this will go well with proper moderation in place. I'm just a bit in between.

 

If they would've been more crude, as if an in between between crossbows and actual muskets: a boomstick. A handcannon that can wildly miss but cause some damage, instead of pin-point guns that, when hit, form a near instant kill. [edit: I really mean JUST this concept. So this would be the only technological advancement for a long while. We're going from bows/crossbows to fairly expert made firearms that in actual history took quite some time to be developed]

 

My issue is more that of the immediate cultural change, with bows and crossbows currently being the only ranged forms of regular combat. (Excluding magic)

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23 minutes ago, HedgeHug said:

gunslinger types

"C'mon Joey, Ya'h two momfs late on yer rent. "

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tumblr_ndnranmOHX1socz3go3_250.gif

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I like having guns in my fantasy, the system looks pretty well balanced, and the idea of alchemy-focused instead of magic-focused firearms sound cool thematically. +1

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so instead of making the powder hyper-volatile, which yes is very fun to do and leads to "interesting consequences"

 

wouldn't it make more sense for the powder to oxidize the barrel, preventing it from being left in the chamber at risk of permanently damaging the barrel to inoperability?

 

also pretty sure that rapid unscheduled disassemblies of early firearms usually were the result of overloading powder, which really isn't a concern with cartriged shot because those had correct powder proportions.

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8 minutes ago, Destroyer_Bravo said:

so instead of making the powder hyper-volatile, which yes is very fun to do and leads to "interesting consequences"

 

wouldn't it make more sense for the powder to oxidize the barrel, preventing it from being left in the chamber at risk of permanently damaging the barrel to inoperability?

 

also pretty sure that rapid unscheduled disassemblies of early firearms usually were the result of overloading powder, which really isn't a concern with cartriged shot because those had correct powder proportions.

 

 

I think both can work. The volatility fits well with the alchemical make-up of the item though.

 

These firearms aren't exactly parallel to IRL firearms, but I see your point. I'll add something about proportions in a moment.

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8 minutes ago, The Fire Mind said:

 

I think both can work. The volatility fits well with the alchemical make-up of the item though.

 

These firearms aren't exactly parallel to IRL firearms, but I see your point. I'll add something about proportions in a moment.

 
 

I mean, cartriged shot can fail due to improper powder preparation or whatever but should be less likely to do so. The "compression" angle doesn't make any sense because by that logic the powder should detonate within storage due to the "pressure" from the storage vessel, and the weight of powder on the top pushing down.

 

Also, all guns should be able to pierce a breastplate in their first range increment. The smaller bullets have enough energy behind them and a small enough surface area that penetration at ranges under 10 yards should not be difficult.

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1 minute ago, Destroyer_Bravo said:

 

I mean, cartriged shot can fail due to improper powder preparation or whatever but should be less likely to do so. The "compression" angle doesn't make any sense because by that logic the powder should detonate within storage due to the "pressure" from the storage vessel, and the weight of powder on the top pushing down.

 

Not really, considering you need to put it in a very tight space/compress it in a small barrel. It won't be in that sort of state if you pour it in a powder horn or keep it in a paper cartridge 

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Bravo, bravo. This is what we've been waiting for.

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48 minutes ago, Destroyer_Bravo said:

Also, all guns should be able to pierce a breastplate in their first range increment.

I will admit, I was giggling about the shotguns having video game tier balancing while we were writing it.

 

2 hours ago, HedgeHug said:

 

The way are trying to do it, with gunsmithing app and crafting cooldown, is to try and make them have a very slow introduction, and always have a state of rarity.

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