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The Buchteln


Babehab
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14 minutes ago, Yollyy said:

I'm so confused with what you're trying to say...

 

Not all spirits have to exist and behave in exactly the same way basically. 

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9 minutes ago, Krugalicious said:

However, other aspects, such as them being able to learn other magics, and a spirit being jealous of another deity...well, given the nature of spirits, there aren't as many problems as you seem to believe.

This would need to be done through a Shamanism re-write or amendment. Not through a proposal of a sub-type.

10 minutes ago, Krugalicious said:

Spirits as a concept need to extend further than mere variations of shamanism and shamanistic creatures, and as stated before, a revised version of this lore could set the standard for more things of this nature.

Spirits are what defines the Shamans and vice versa. Deities are the defining factor of their magic. If you want spirits to influence outside of Shamanism then the same should go for the Aspects and Aenguls also. If that's the case then there should be an entire overhaul of how you want deity magic to work. Though by the current way it works I believe that all my points are pretty valid and fair criticism of the proposed piece. 

6 minutes ago, zaezae said:

Not all spirits have to exist and behave in exactly the same way basically. 

Sure, they act differently but there will always be some general principles to guide what they can do, how they act and such. It is generally expected that they would follow those guidelines in a consistent manner.

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19 hours ago, Babehab said:

The obscure spirit Joretel looked upon the Clerics of Tahariae, and longed for such loyal and devoted servants.

 

Firstly, Spirits don't long for servants because anything that happens in the Mortal Realm benefits them anyway. Shamans are practically Mortals who have the capabilities to walk about the Spirit Realm, serve and make deals with the Spirits, and commune the way Spirits wish to recieve sacrifices.

 

09575e2118fa6b9448fb4dd93fce1d85.png
 

A Tahariaen Cleric would hold no influence whatsoever with the Spirits simply because they worship another Deity and not the Spirits themselves. That's also not to mention that Farseers are more than often the Shaman form of a Cleric. It wouldn't be rational for someone (especially one who receives a magic from the deity) to be completely devoted to the Aengul as well be completely devoted to the Spirits.

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24 minutes ago, Humanistic said:

 

Firstly, Spirits don't long for servants because anything that happens in the Mortal Realm benefits them anyway. Shamans are practically Mortals who have the capabilities to walk about the Spirit Realm, serve and make deals with the Spirits, and commune the way Spirits wish to recieve sacrifices.

 

09575e2118fa6b9448fb4dd93fce1d85.png
 

A Tahariaen Cleric would hold no influence whatsoever with the Spirits simply because they worship another Deity and not the Spirits themselves. That's also not to mention that Farseers are more than often the Shaman form of a Cleric. It wouldn't be rational for someone (especially one who receives a magic from the deity) to be completely devoted to the Aengul as well be completely devoted to the Spirits.

 

Cleric was essentially an example. I suppose you would've said the same if I used Izkuthii as an example instead.

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1 hour ago, zaezae said:

Not all spirits have to exist and behave in exactly the same way basically. 

 

#Notallspirits ?

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My dear shamanic friends have spoken all that I would've said before me. So I'll simply lay emphasis on the fact that you should've contacted some of us before writing lore regarding Spirits & Shamanic attributes.

 

The food trick with Veist is already possible with Witchdoctory right now.

I stopped reading at about that point.

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4 hours ago, HedgeHug said:

My dear shamanic friends have spoken all that I would've said before me. So I'll simply lay emphasis on the fact that you should've contacted some of us before writing lore regarding Spirits & Shamanic attributes.

 

The food trick with Veist is already possible with Witchdoctory right now.

I stopped reading at about that point.

 

Good. I really appreciate you guys commenting though. I took the legitimate complaints and made edits where I thought it was necessary. The rest really just consisted of "I ran out of things to whinge about so I took quotes out of context or simply didn't take the time to read it in my rage", "My headcanon spirits don't act like this, why did he give her complex emotions?", and "This is similar to my magic so I'm upset".
And yes, I should've consulted a shaman player or someone that's well versed in spirit lore, but with such aggressive responses as these, is it really a wonder I didn't?
All in all I feel you've increased the chances of it being accepted in the first place, so thank you.

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22 minutes ago, Babehab said:

And yes, I should've consulted a shaman player or someone that's well versed in spirit lore, but with such aggressive responses as these, is it really a wonder I didn't?

I think it's more of people wanting it to be correct and making any sense than aggressive.

Edited by Yollyy
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21 minutes ago, Babehab said:

And yes, I should've consulted a shaman player or someone that's well versed in spirit lore, but with such aggressive responses as these, is it really a wonder I didn't?

If you had worked with Shaman players and representatives I am confident you would have ended up finding yourself with better lore and more people to support that lore. But you didn't. So this is the obvious response that you should have anticipated in all honesty.

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On 10/24/2017 at 2:39 AM, Babehab said:

She sought out skilled chefs and bakers, those she deemed worthy to carry out her will, and bestowed her teachings upon them.

To be clear this should not entail Old Blah, right?

On 10/24/2017 at 2:39 AM, Babehab said:

Becoming a Feastmaster

To become a Feastmaster, a specific, special broth must be brewed, the chefs hissing quiet prayers to Joretel in Old Blah. Should the prospective chef drink the broth, they would lose consciousness, briefly communing with Joretel. From there, the spirit bestows her blessing upon them.

I'd like to see an elaboration on the possibility of somebody being rejected to know the gift of the spirit and that the prospective Feastmaster would need to know the Old Blah before communing with the spirit. 

On 10/24/2017 at 2:39 AM, Babehab said:

-A Feastmaster may practice other magics, excluding those of another deific figure.

I'd still like to see this further limited. Generally spirits would grow envious or upset if one of their chosen followers made the decision that the spirits powers were not enough for them and they decided to go out and attempt to acquire more supernatural arts.

On 10/24/2017 at 2:39 AM, Babehab said:

Becoming a Susteknight

Still missing a mention of the Old Blah.

On 10/24/2017 at 2:39 AM, Babehab said:

[In OOC terms, a Susteknight with a TA collaborates with a Feastmaster to make a magic cupcake, then the student eats said cupcake and becomes just as delusional as their master. ]

What is the process from a character freshly become a Susteknight to an experienced one? What makes the experienced one more able to (have a TA) work with a Feastmaster to create the mythical cupcake

 

On 10/24/2017 at 2:39 AM, Babehab said:

-Susteknights are able to learn most other magics, aside from deific magics, and dark magics that fully corrupt or alter their being. The act would either break their mind beyond repair or cause them to literally eat themselves to death. This only results in a PK if they willingly let this occur.

To my understanding I believe that Veist would want complete control over his cursed subjects actions and would attempt to make it impossible for his subject to use powers outside of his control. For example give his subject the illusion of starving to prevent them from connecting to the Void.

-=-

 

 

Overall I'd still like to see some of the changes that I had previously mentioned but I would also like to see the changes that I have just mentioned. The edits are coming along well but I believe that there is still much to be amended.

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On 10/24/2017 at 12:39 AM, Babehab said:

Joretel grew envious of dedicated Izkuthii, longing for her own followers to spread mirth in her wake. She sought out skilled chefs and bakers, those she deemed worthy to carry out her will, and bestowed her teachings upon them.

 

Izkuthii are no different in the sense that they worship another deity being Llahir the Daemon of Trickery, Thievery, and Luck. The Spirits wouldn't reach out to another deity follower because they were created by Apohet the Daemon of Pride (though no-one would actually know this IRP) if one wanted influence with the Spirits they would have to fully devote themselves and not just a portion of their worship.

 

On 10/24/2017 at 12:39 AM, Babehab said:

Veist, Spirit of Tricks, Thieves, and Illusions observed the unfortunate events from afar, and saw opportunity. He opted to prey upon her desperation, offering his assistance in the matter.

The two collaborated, creating the craft of the Feastmasters.

Unbeknownst to the content and comfortable Joretel, Veist continued to work. He twisted the spirit’s vision to his own benefit, cursing unfortunate descendants to harvest dark energies for later mischievous use, these cursed descendants would come to be lightheartedly referred to as Susteknights.

 

The two Spirits 'collaborated' helping create the Feast-masters and Susteknights while Veist to his own benefit twisted Joretel's vision. This sounds less like collaboration but rather Veist backstabbing Joretel.

 

On 10/24/2017 at 12:39 AM, Babehab said:

-Susteknights are able to learn most other magics, aside from deific magics, and dark magics that fully corrupt or alter their being. The act would either break their mind beyond repair or cause them to literally eat themselves to death. This only results in a PK if they willingly let this occur.

 

 

Susteknights are practically created through the Spirits 'collaboration' meaning they would have been created through Shamanic means to begin with. Reaching towards other magics and teachings is practically spitting in the face of the Spirits that began their creation.

 

On 10/24/2017 at 12:39 AM, Babehab said:

Becoming a Feastmaster

To become a Feastmaster, a specific, special broth must be brewed, the chefs hissing quiet prayers to Joretel in Old Blah. Should the prospective chef drink the broth, they would lose consciousness, briefly communing with Joretel. From there, the spirit bestows her blessing upon them.

 

Old Blah is something that's passed from Shaman to Shaman and unless you have a teacher that knows Old Blah you wouldn't have RP knowledge of it. It was recently added to the forums but is not grounds for having RP knowledge of it. This sounds extremely familiar in relation to Witch Doctors.

 

On 10/24/2017 at 12:39 AM, Babehab said:

For the short time that this sound and feeling persists, if the Susteknight desires, they may summon forth a crude illusory imitation of the consumed being’s related magic, oftentimes to the detriment to both themselves and their opponent.

Like all illusion, Mimicking tricks the minds of those affected. Regardless of if they’re certain it’s real or not, their brain, and especially their body, will react reflexively to the stimuli.

 

I'm not really sure where I stand with this or where the other LT or MT might stand on this. It ultimately is only illusory magic but it's practically absorbing other's magics for the projection which is a bit of a stretch.

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37 minutes ago, Humanistic said:

Apohet the Daemon of Pride

92cce8add31f62bdc94830eba85a3edb.png **Daemon of Faith and Ambition

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4 minutes ago, Dunstan said:

92cce8add31f62bdc94830eba85a3edb.png **Daemon of Faith and Ambition

 


Sorry it can be a bit confusing and a mess when people shift something from one thing to another. 

 

20e71e2409c718b4f35028fc594e1e4c.png

 

All the same, the guidelines I mentioned are still relevant.

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3 minutes ago, Humanistic said:

 

https://www.lordofthecraft.net/forums/topic/121509-apohet-daemon/

 

875d053765934fec5a54d09d2913de9c.png

 

This would be the current lore.

What you quoted is from the RP archive. If I find the move history of that post exists i'll get back to you on that.

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22 hours ago, Babehab said:

And yes, I should've consulted a shaman player or someone that's well versed in spirit lore, but with such aggressive responses as these, is it really a wonder I didn't?

 

So you just post lore that heavily infringes existing core shamanic lore so you have a source for your magic instead of linking it to something else. If you want to write something with or about the spirits, many a shaman players would be more than glad to help out and inform you of how the existing mechanic works.

 

If you go ahead and completely ignore the presence of core lore and write something that proceeds to break such - you will get our reaction.

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