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Kardel

Reform the LT

48 posts in this topic

I'm gonna keep this short and sweet.

 

As a longtime member of the community (I've been actively wasting my time here since 2012) and (albeit my tenure was brief) a former LT,  I think the LT needs to be completely reformed. First, all lore should be made canon. The LT should determine if the lore is well written and if it is distinct from other pieces of lore. If both of these criteria are met, the LT should document the lore and add it to a redaction file.

 

It should then be the responsibility of the LTs to redact pieces of lore so that they fit together and create a cohesive server lore base. Old lore should be kept as a basis just for a starting point. This way, the LT accepts community input into LotC's RP while also creating a living server lore that can be edited to meet the community's needs.

 

Instead of filtering and censoring lore, the LT should archive and redact lore. 

 

Historically server lore has been whatever some LT in his mom's basement thought was cool. Setherien is the worst example of this (literally ******* deathwing stop appropriating culture). Supremacy once wanted me to write lore about a giant worm because he played some game in which a giant worm ate buses. Why should the 1% dictate what the rest of the server does? All Roleplayer's voices matter. If more RPers could contribute lore of their interest to LotC, we'd naturally have a larger base: if people have the opportunity to have their fun, more people will come to have fun supply n'demand easy peasy. 

 

This way ETs and GMs could make their own lore at will and offer the server with cool new RPing opportunities. Radical! 

 

Also, the server's plotlines won't be run by whichever RP group happens to be in charge at that moment (i.e. in Anthos it was the druids, then it was the high elves, now i think its a mix between elves, edgies and suticans idk). 


Edited by Kardel

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y'all ever seen a loremag?  90% of the lore we vote on/implement is written by members of the community that aren't on the lt.  the idea that we're secretly controlling what lore gets written is a little misinformed.

 

that being said, i don't mind being more transparent.  if you have any questions about how the lt works you can send me a message :)

 

edit:  i'm sorry that you had a bad experience when you were on the team, whenever that was.  the team isn't perfect, we have our own changes coming up soon (hopefully!), but it has changed since you were on it.

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I didn't think someone could come up with a simple solution that would fix the fetid, decaying edifice that is our lore team but look, you just came around and did it.

 

+1

 

11 minutes ago, fighting evil by moonlight said:

y'all ever seen a loremag?  90% of the lore we vote on/implement is written by members of the community that aren't on the lt.  the idea that we're secretly controlling what lore gets written is a little misinformed.

 

that being said, i don't mind being more transparent.  if you have any questions about how the lt works you can send me a message :)

 

 

I'd be willing to believe that 100% of the lore you implement is written by members of the community that aren't on the LT, but 100% of the lore you implement is also written by the members of the community you like. The LT having the final decision on whether something is canon gives you and your friends far too much authority. 

 

I mean, right now, why do people have fireball-shooting power gloves, magical supercomputers, and immortal indestructible vampire characters that are perfectly identical to regular humans? It's because all of that lore got accepted, despite objections from the community, because the LT liked the people behind it or thought it was cool. This isn't a sustainable way of doing things and it's making the playerbase unhappy. 


Edited by tavern_roleplay

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52 minutes ago, tavern_roleplay said:

but 100% of the lore you implement is also written by the members of the community you like

 

This is just tinfoiling lol the LT is made up of players from all different main playerbases who we "like" is rarely ever a consensus. Lore submissions are judged by their quality and whether they have a place on the server, not by who wrote them. I can't stop you from believing otherwise, but you can't insist we're nepotist on a baseless assumption either.

 

Also, LT have never accepted a piece of lore where the majority of people posting on the submission are against it. If a piece of lore is accepted now is causing issues with the playerbase then look back to its lore submission and see how many people gave it their support.

 

As for redacting and shelving lore, thats generally never a permanent solution too. Because it pisses off the people who use the magic and causes them and their friends to stir up a storm about the LT, and its hard for magics to STAY shelved because shelving magic tends to spur that magic's community to rally and make said magic active again. (see, ascended).

 

Then of course, you get into WHICH magics to shelf. You remove inactive-spook-magic-A and the spooks will complain. Why not target the Holies? So you remove some niche holy group and the holies point fingers at the spook magics. And so forth. So we're stuck between either being mobbed by a playerbase for bias, or enforcing false neutrality (removing equal amounts of magics from all magic groups even if some magic groups need less magics removed).

 

Hence removing magics permanently is never possible unless you also plan on holding your ground in the face of a resurgent playerbase who wants to make the magic active again. And if the LT brick walled a group of players trying to get active again and build RP, that would be pitchforks and torches to us.

 

So you can't please everyone. We get yelled at for removing magics, we get yelled at for adding them. When we deny new magics, we're the cause of the server's stagnation and circlejerk. When we accept new magics, we're diluting, over-saturating and making the lore a mess. Take your pick.

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In my experience on the LT most members supported really redundant or odd things, such as random aenguldaemons that were fundamentally pointless. Not only this but it is well know among lore writers that any form of non-medieval technology needs to have some Thomas cock powered trait, such as the magical guns or rune canons. There's nothing wrong with commonsense progress, but sadly the LT seems relatively backwards in their thinking.

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1 hour ago, fighting evil by moonlight said:

[snip]

 

Sort of random, sort of on point, any chance lore mag votes can be done in a public forum that no one can touch but can watch? 

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It REALLY depends on what LT you get. Sometimes, yes, LT members are unhelpful, or rude, or just flat out ignore you, such as whining when you ask a question they've been asked before, reading PMs and ignoring them, the list goes on.

 

but there's good ones too. I've had lore team members who have helped me out with some lore so it fits into lore, or answering questions.

 

i do think the loremag is a big iffy to me. As I understand it, if lore isn't either loved or hated it just kinda sits there. If this is correct it really does need to be changed. There should be a definitive yes or no. But, again, I could have misinterpreted how it works based off what an lm said, so if I'm wrong please by all means correct me

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1 hour ago, Sky said:

 

Sort of random, sort of on point, any chance lore mag votes can be done in a public forum that no one can touch but can watch? 

 

 

Well peronally I respond to all lore subs prior to voting so people know what I vote and why. I dont mind standing behind my opinion. BUT to make that a general rule is gonna open individuals up for harassment and targeting in game and through PMs. Despite the voting process the acceptance or rejection of lore is a team decision. Individual LMs should have the choice to reply in public or not.

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I completely agree with you on this one. The Ironguts for example have lots of unwritten/Un-canon lore wich they rp but only with one-another as others would neglect it. The rp the lore is based on is canon and happened but lore never got written. The LT should either deny it or accept it by making a post on the issue and many others! Never fear, i'll be taking this advice into the LT if i get accepted ;3

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3 minutes ago, Tidemanno said:

I completely agree with you on this one. The Ironguts for example have lots of unwritten/Un-canon lore wich they rp but only with one-another as others would neglect it. The rp the lore is based on is canon and happened but lore never got written. The LT should either deny it or accept it by making a post on the issue and many others! Never fear, i'll be taking this advice into the LT if i get accepted ;3

 

This is a very common thing among the dwarven clans and the orcish clans, it stems from how back in the day (not stating this LT is doing this) the LT were very negligent towards said two races, so they tended to keep their lore within themselves but because of this, a lot of inconsistencies are coming around and issues, such as how a certain orc clan has olog blood and that the ironguts had aengul blood in their bloodline.

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7 hours ago, Tidemanno said:

I completely agree with you on this one. The Ironguts for example have lots of unwritten/Un-canon lore wich they rp but only with one-another as others would neglect it. The rp the lore is based on is canon and happened but lore never got written. The LT should either deny it or accept it by making a post on the issue and many others! Never fear, i'll be taking this advice into the LT if i get accepted ;3

 

If you have unofficial lore you want to make canon, please submit it as a lore submission. If the lore is just history-based and not magic lore, then you're free to just RP it without LT approval.

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12 hours ago, WuHanXianShi14 said:

This is just tinfoiling lol the LT is made up of players from all different main playerbases who we "like" is rarely ever a consensus. Lore submissions are judged by their quality and whether they have a place on the server, not by who wrote them. I can't stop you from believing otherwise, but you can't insist we're nepotist on a baseless assumption either.

 

-I'm going to cut out this first paragraph, not because I don't want people to see me making an ass out of myself, but because what I wrote is wrong.- 

 

Nowhere did I say the Lore Team was one entity with a single consensus about everything, but the Lore Team is made up of groups of like-minded players who, overall, have more similar opinions than different ones. It's painfully obvious that "certain groups" have ingrained in the lore team and made it easier for "certain groups" to get accepted lore. There are actually no human roleplayers currently a part of the lore team, unless you count Edel I guess. Oren, Norland, the Frostbeards and Urguan have zero representation in this lore team, and are coincidentally the sort of people who are tired of the same FromSoft-aping, powerful characters-before-good storytelling, "holies versus spooks" magical tripe that has been consistently churned out by our Lore Team over the past year. 

 

I'm not spouting baseless assumptions about what's happening here. I could be wrong, but I am in no way tinfoiling. The server's lore; it's history and the consistency of its setting are things I would like to preserve, and that the Lore Team couldn't seem to give less of a **** about. The fact that people have inserted Mordring and all sorts of made-up characters into the Iblees storyline is concerning to me. The fact that Xionist in-character mythology is being made canon is concerning to me. The fact that people can now receive lightning-shooting power gauntlets from their LT friends is infuriating. 

 

If you're too afraid to remove bad lore because someone will yell at you, there is something wrong. You should have the authority to make your own decisions as for what is best for the setting, not what is best for the health of certain player groups. If this isn't possible, there needs to be major changes to the Lore Team. As it stands, the Lore Team does not work for most of the server. This cannot continue.


Edited by tavern_roleplay

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1 hour ago, tavern_roleplay said:

 

Flamboyant - main character is a cleric

shimmeringbliss - main character is a cleric

bestscarface76 - main character in (?)

chihiros - main character in Devirad

Luv - main character in Devirad

_Sug - main character in Devirad

Niv_Mizzet - main character a high elven MArt manufacturer

Leo - main character in the Dominion

Vaynth - main character in the Dominion

Taufirewarrior - main character in the Dominion

Edeldrache - hasn't been on in so long he no longer has personas

Sporadic - main character (?),

Spoduminister - main character (?), 

Humanistic - main character an orc

 

Very diverse team, all of the players are from different playerbases. The people who roleplayed in Skyfall aren't overrepresented. Clerics aren't overrepresented. People who write Xionist lore aren't overrepresented. The Dominion is not in any way overrepresented. Magic roleplayers aren't overrepresented. 

 

Nowhere did I say the Lore Team was one entity with a single consensus about everything, but the Lore Team is made up of groups of like-minded players who, overall, have more similar opinions than different ones. It's painfully obvious that "certain groups" have ingrained in the lore team and made it easier for "certain groups" to get accepted lore. There are actually no human roleplayers currently a part of the lore team, unless you count Edel I guess. Oren, Norland, the Frostbeards and Urguan have zero representation in this lore team, and are coincidentally the sort of people who are tired of the same FromSoft-aping, powerful characters-before-good storytelling, "holies versus spooks" magical tripe that has been consistently churned out by our Lore Team over the past year. 

 

I'm not spouting baseless assumptions about what's happening here. I could be wrong, but I am in no way tinfoiling. The server's lore; it's history and the consistency of its setting are things I would like to preserve, and that the Lore Team couldn't seem to give less of a **** about. The fact that people have inserted Mordring and all sorts of made-up characters into the Iblees storyline is concerning to me. The fact that Xionist in-character mythology is being made canon is concerning to me. The fact that people can now receive lightning-shooting power gauntlets from their LT friends is infuriating. 

 

If you're too afraid to remove bad lore because someone will yell at you, there is something wrong. You should have the authority to make your own decisions as for what is best for the setting, not what is best for the health of certain player groups. If this isn't possible, there needs to be major changes to the Lore Team. As it stands, the Lore Team does not work for most of the server. This cannot continue.

 

I didn't see any dwarven or norland applicants last time the LT was recruiting.

 

vaynth rps in the dominion once in a blue moon, tau/will has characters in multiple playerbases as do I (currently my main character is with the canonist church). 

 

Three of the LT you listed you can't even attach one of your unfair labels to. Which is what it is really, you're making the baseless assumption that because LT have characters in certain playerbases (a good chunk of which you mislabeled) that 

 

1) there is some conspiracy to keep out dwarves/oreners/norlanders when in reality they just haven't applied when we were recruiting

 

2) having characters in a playerbase renders us incapable of being receptive to all lore as a whole. Since when, and where is your proof? I recall voting yes on plenty of void magic and dark magic and even corrupt draoi lore I found interesting despite having a druid character. 

 

And as it stands, we have LT who like you said, have backgrounds in the wood elves, dark elves, Frost witches, devirad, high elves, orcs, snow elves, humans (thats edel's speciality), etc.

 

We lack a dedicated dwarf LM right now, but hopefully will pick one up come our next recruitment. But this is due to lack of them applying, not our unwillingness to recruit them.

 

If you're going to accuse a team of bias by sheer virtue of the characters they play then you need to either reevaluate yourself or actually provide detailed examples of proof. 

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1 hour ago, tavern_roleplay said:

 

Flamboyant - main character is a cleric

shimmeringbliss - main character is a cleric

bestscarface76 - main character in (?)

chihiros - main character in Devirad

Luv - main character in Devirad

_Sug - main character in Devirad

Niv_Mizzet - main character a high elven MArt manufacturer

Leo - main character in the Dominion

Vaynth - main character in the Dominion

Taufirewarrior - main character in the Dominion

Edeldrache - hasn't been on in so long he no longer has personas

Sporadic - main character (?),

Spoduminister - main character (?), 

Humanistic - main character an orc

 

Very diverse team, all of the players are from different playerbases. The people who roleplayed in Skyfall aren't overrepresented. Clerics aren't overrepresented. People who write Xionist lore aren't overrepresented. The Dominion is not in any way overrepresented. Magic roleplayers aren't overrepresented. 

 

Nowhere did I say the Lore Team was one entity with a single consensus about everything, but the Lore Team is made up of groups of like-minded players who, overall, have more similar opinions than different ones. It's painfully obvious that "certain groups" have ingrained in the lore team and made it easier for "certain groups" to get accepted lore. There are actually no human roleplayers currently a part of the lore team, unless you count Edel I guess. Oren, Norland, the Frostbeards and Urguan have zero representation in this lore team, and are coincidentally the sort of people who are tired of the same FromSoft-aping, powerful characters-before-good storytelling, "holies versus spooks" magical tripe that has been consistently churned out by our Lore Team over the past year. 

 

I'm not spouting baseless assumptions about what's happening here. I could be wrong, but I am in no way tinfoiling. The server's lore; it's history and the consistency of its setting are things I would like to preserve, and that the Lore Team couldn't seem to give less of a **** about. The fact that people have inserted Mordring and all sorts of made-up characters into the Iblees storyline is concerning to me. The fact that Xionist in-character mythology is being made canon is concerning to me. The fact that people can now receive lightning-shooting power gauntlets from their LT friends is infuriating. 

 

If you're too afraid to remove bad lore because someone will yell at you, there is something wrong. You should have the authority to make your own decisions as for what is best for the setting, not what is best for the health of certain player groups. If this isn't possible, there needs to be major changes to the Lore Team. As it stands, the Lore Team does not work for most of the server. This cannot continue.

 

 

 

 

am I not LT anymore?

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