Merkaken 516 Share Posted November 18, 2017 I'm honestly very conflicted about this lore... I love that the Ikuras language is being reused, it truly deserves to as it was a huge undertaking for the original creator of the language. however, I have a couple of issues, one minor and one major im not really a huge fan of renaming the language just because of slme added lore. It's a minor thing, I know, and I know I'm biased as a prior phobism user, so I mean take this criticism with a grain of salt. I just don't like renaming it simply, as I understand, because Ikuras' influence is waning. The manor issue i have is that it no it no longer come natural to anyone that isn't undead. I find that odd and am not a huge fan of it. I understand you can learn it if you're a dark arts user/someone with a tampered soul, but that's not what it used to be, unless something changed a while ago and I didn't know. The black language was was meant to be for those who have gone insane. Not someone who was a little cooky or eccentric, someone who is legitimately insane, regardless of magic or soul type. It was something that came naturally to you slowly as you went more and more insane, and even more natural if Ikuras touched your soul, like with the Phobism users. Now it seems like a "spooky only" thing. I really don't think it should be locked like that. It should be for any who has truly gone/goingn insane. If i misinterpreted something, or my concern is mistaken or anything like that, please by all means correct me. I truly do love that the black language is being used for Undead, that is a very neat addition, it's just those concerns that bother me. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dard 725 Author Share Posted November 18, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Fury_Fire said: Im pretty sure there are translators you can make out there that you can just stick a word in english and then the word in whatever language you come up with. Heard some people talking about that in my normal discord recently - that might make it easier. Also personally dont believe it should be forced on to people; I always get triggered when people who play something try and make lore for something else. ie. Golemancers acting as lore representatives for golems, or necromancers acting as representatives for ghouls or liches. Unless you do play one of these creatures being affected by this lore and im full of **** 0 Upvote I play a guy who can understand it (provided this goes through). I did edit out the part earlier where it was something that was a bit forced for its users, and made clause it where its based on interpretation of the player if they want to go full balls to the wall or not. If someone doesn't want to do it, they don't have to. If someone wants a little, they can use a little of the language. If someone wants to go ham and full on immerse themselves, they can have at it. 41 minutes ago, Merkaken said: I'm honestly very conflicted about this lore... I love that the Ikuras language is being reused, it truly deserves to as it was a huge undertaking for the original creator of the language. however, I have a couple of issues, one minor and one major im not really a huge fan of renaming the language just because of slme added lore. It's a minor thing, I know, and I know I'm biased as a prior phobism user, so I mean take this criticism with a grain of salt. I just don't like renaming it simply, as I understand, because Ikuras' influence is waning. The manor issue i have is that it no it no longer come natural to anyone that isn't undead. I find that odd and am not a huge fan of it. I understand you can learn it if you're a dark arts user/someone with a tampered soul, but that's not what it used to be, unless something changed a while ago and I didn't know. The black language was was meant to be for those who have gone insane. Not someone who was a little cooky or eccentric, someone who is legitimately insane, regardless of magic or soul type. It was something that came naturally to you slowly as you went more and more insane, and even more natural if Ikuras touched your soul, like with the Phobism users. Now it seems like a "spooky only" thing. I really don't think it should be locked like that. It should be for any who has truly gone/goingn insane. If i misinterpreted something, or my concern is mistaken or anything like that, please by all means correct me. I truly do love that the black language is being used for Undead, that is a very neat addition, it's just those concerns that bother me. 0 Upvote So, your concern about the renaming, its more so not that it was that Ikuras' power was waning more so that he lost his influence over it and it was something taken by undead. It comes natural to Necromancers, Mystics, people with darkened souls, they just can't speak it. With how Dark Arts are being rewritten, it doesn't make sense to me that Soul Puppeteers would understand it when Soul Puppetry is basically a darker voidal art (unless I'm misunderstanding it). The point for mortal beings (and draughted undead) not being able to speak it was to add context to the fact the language is produced by resonance and not vocals. I didn't think it would be appropriate for me to add methods in which necromancers, mystics and darkened mortals. Rather, if the writers of those lores wished to add caveats for venues to speak it, then that would make more sense to me. I will admit I have a certain vision for the language, but I have been trying my best to pay proper homage to the people who worked on the lore before me. The truth of the matter is that it is very seldomly used, at least as I've seen it in the time I've been on the server. I would love to see it, become something more mainstream like Blah. I can tell that a lot of you are a bit touchy with me doing anything with this lore. I didn't know Watyll, I joined back in July of this year. The amount of effort in his lore is amazing, but the fact of the matter is that it just is sitting there collecting dust and has fallen out of use. Maybe my rewrite doesn't do him justice. I can't presume to know what he would have wanted other than the fact that he probably would not have wanted the things he worked on to fade out use. Edited November 18, 2017 by Dardonas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kardel 1047 Share Posted November 18, 2017 dont you dare step on watyll's legacy add on to his lore don't rewrite, he was brilliant and this is uninspired and frankly amateurish -1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultan 3949 Share Posted November 18, 2017 (edited) On the basic concept that I find it disgusting that people think its alright to rewrite other peoples lore I am giving it a -1. I did not like it when people started rewriting my lore nor do I find it fine if your rewriting lore that was done by someone that has passed away. Edited November 18, 2017 by Sultan 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merkaken 516 Share Posted November 18, 2017 40 minutes ago, Dardonas said: I play a guy who can understand it (provided this goes through). I did edit out the part earlier where it was something that was a bit forced for its users, and made clause it where its based on interpretation of the player if they want to go full balls to the wall or not. If someone doesn't want to do it, they don't have to. If someone wants a little, they can use a little of the language. If someone wants to go ham and full on immerse themselves, they can have at it. So, your concern about the renaming, its more so not that it was that Ikuras' power was waning more so that he lost his influence over it and it was something taken by undead. It comes natural to Necromancers, Mystics, people with darkened souls, they just can't speak it. With how Dark Arts are being rewritten, it doesn't make sense to me that Soul Puppeteers would understand it when Soul Puppetry is basically a darker voidal art (unless I'm misunderstanding it). The point for mortal beings (and draughted undead) not being able to speak it was to add context to the fact the language is produced by resonance and not vocals. I didn't think it would be appropriate for me to add methods in which necromancers, mystics and darkened mortals. Rather, if the writers of those lores wished to add caveats for venues to speak it, then that would make more sense to me. I will admit I have a certain vision for the language, but I have been trying my best to pay proper homage to the people who worked on the lore before me. The truth of the matter is that it is very seldomly used, at least as I've seen it in the time I've been on the server. I would love to see it, become something more mainstream like Blah. I can tell that a lot of you are a bit touchy with me doing anything with this lore. I didn't know Watyll, I joined back in July of this year. The amount of effort in his lore is amazing, but the fact of the matter is that it just is sitting there collecting dust and has fallen out of use. Maybe my rewrite doesn't do him justice. I can't presume to know what he would have wanted other than the fact that he probably would not have wanted the things he worked on to fade out use. 0 Upvote Yes, people are a bit touchy on the lore that Wattyl made. I don't think anyone expects you to be on his level by any means, nor should they. I agree with Kardel's statement (though it could've been rather softer). Im in no way opposed to additions to wattyl's lore, and I can understand wanting to bring that back. However, like I said, I said, I don't agree rewriting it by any means. If I can just give my two cents, leave the name as it is, do not change it, leave alone the part where those who are insanely can naturally learn it. The only thing that should stay in this lore, in my opinion, should be the addition of undead learning it naturally. Again, no one is saying to write lore like wattyl by any means. Just do not change it aside from additions. This language should not be an altered-soul person and undead only thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Respect 5430 Share Posted November 18, 2017 8 hours ago, Dardonas said: It'll become as much of a thing as *speaks in Blah* 0 Upvote good point Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfate786 1639 Share Posted November 18, 2017 I don't get it, why not just make it Latin? Wouldn't it be easier to speak? Wouldn't it also have benefits for actually learning since learning Latin is an actual accomplishment? Edit: Also, there's nothing wrong with re-writing other people's lore if the lore is outdated and the person that wrote the lore is inactive/banned. In fact, lore that is outdated and is not used widely on the server should be canned/shelved or re-written. This is just my opinion of course as keeping outdated lore that isn't used as often as it should results in new lore pieces being denied because "it's similar to this piece of outdated lore that no one uses". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelesh 319 Share Posted November 18, 2017 3 hours ago, drfate786 said: I don't get it, why not just make it Latin? Wouldn't it be easier to speak? Wouldn't it also have benefits for actually learning since learning Latin is an actual accomplishment? Edit: Also, there's nothing wrong with re-writing other people's lore if the lore is outdated and the person that wrote the lore is inactive/banned. In fact, lore that is outdated and is not used widely on the server should be canned/shelved or re-written. This is just my opinion of course as keeping outdated lore that isn't used as often as it should results in new lore pieces being denied because "it's similar to this piece of outdated lore that no one uses". 0 Upvote This isn't the case of someone being banned or being inactive; this is someone who has died. Changing his lore now that he has passed away isn't the same as changing someone's lore who has gone inactive of their own free will. His work is the memory we have of him on this server. He didn't choose to leave, he didn't choose to leave this behind. Leaving his work as he meant for it to be is the most we can do for someone who worked so hard for this server. I have no idea what you mean about Latin though. Latin is Flexio. Why would Ikuras speak Flexio/want others to speak Flexio? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarsies 6024 Share Posted November 18, 2017 On the grounds of sensitivity for a deceased close friend, and I'll mind my language, please don't do this. Al'tahrn-Durngo deserves additions, and lots of them. The lexicon is as thick as Sprat's left leg; plenty of new words and grammar sets can be added but changing anything within its heart is morally wrong. This shouldn't be done. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dard 725 Author Share Posted November 19, 2017 (edited) 18 hours ago, Merkaken said: I'm honestly very conflicted about this lore... I love that the Ikuras language is being reused, it truly deserves to as it was a huge undertaking for the original creator of the language. however, I have a couple of issues, one minor and one major im not really a huge fan of renaming the language just because of slme added lore. It's a minor thing, I know, and I know I'm biased as a prior phobism user, so I mean take this criticism with a grain of salt. I just don't like renaming it simply, as I understand, because Ikuras' influence is waning. The manor issue i have is that it no it no longer come natural to anyone that isn't undead. I find that odd and am not a huge fan of it. I understand you can learn it if you're a dark arts user/someone with a tampered soul, but that's not what it used to be, unless something changed a while ago and I didn't know. The black language was was meant to be for those who have gone insane. Not someone who was a little cooky or eccentric, someone who is legitimately insane, regardless of magic or soul type. It was something that came naturally to you slowly as you went more and more insane, and even more natural if Ikuras touched your soul, like with the Phobism users. Now it seems like a "spooky only" thing. I really don't think it should be locked like that. It should be for any who has truly gone/goingn insane. If i misinterpreted something, or my concern is mistaken or anything like that, please by all means correct me. I truly do love that the black language is being used for Undead, that is a very neat addition, it's just those concerns that bother me. 1 Upvote 17 hours ago, Kardel said: dont you dare step on watyll's legacy add on to his lore don't rewrite, he was brilliant and this is uninspired and frankly amateurish -1 2 Upvote 9 hours ago, Sorcerous said: This isn't the case of someone being banned or being inactive; this is someone who has died. Changing his lore now that he has passed away isn't the same as changing someone's lore who has gone inactive of their own free will. His work is the memory we have of him on this server. He didn't choose to leave, he didn't choose to leave this behind. Leaving his work as he meant for it to be is the most we can do for someone who worked so hard for this server. I have no idea what you mean about Latin though. Latin is Flexio. Why would Ikuras speak Flexio/want others to speak Flexio? 0 Upvote 5 hours ago, Zarsies said: On the grounds of sensitivity for a deceased close friend, and I'll mind my language, please don't do this. Al'tahrn-Durngo deserves additions, and lots of them. The lexicon is as thick as Sprat's left leg; plenty of new words and grammar sets can be added but changing anything within its heart is morally wrong. This shouldn't be done. 0 Upvote So, to all of you with concerns, I removed the rewritten lore of the Black Language, I am appreciative of the feedback, and I did not mean to step over any boundaries with someone who has had a profound impact on the community. My intent was not to offend, but to bring my own ideas into the mix with some outdated and under-practiced lore in attempt to help add more flavor to the spook/dark mage RP that has grown in the community. I am solely focusing on the resonance aspect I came up with, as well as any other elements that may come up within that. I am open to input and collaboration for those who express the desire to work on that. Right now, I'll leave this as a WIP while I decide what more to do with it. Edited November 19, 2017 by Dardonas 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarsies 6024 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Good on you, my dude. An open attitude like this makes me quite literally colon closing parenthesis. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sporadic 2799 Share Posted November 26, 2017 On 11/18/2017 at 12:24 AM, Dardonas said: making things extra spooky. This is serious lore. I'm conflicted. On the one hand, I really appreciate lore that envelops and standardizes a specific lore subgroup. Larger-scale organization is sorely lacking and lore like this pushes us in the right direction. On the other hand, I see all kinds of player disagreements stemming from the fact of how people use and interpret "Resonance:. I also remember the Undead just speaking Latin in Aegis as a way to communicate and sound "extra spooky". I feel like Latin translates to the limited medium of MC chatboxes better than a 'resonance' can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dard 725 Author Share Posted November 28, 2017 On 11/26/2017 at 3:18 AM, Sporadic said: This is serious lore. I'm conflicted. On the one hand, I really appreciate lore that envelops and standardizes a specific lore subgroup. Larger-scale organization is sorely lacking and lore like this pushes us in the right direction. On the other hand, I see all kinds of player disagreements stemming from the fact of how people use and interpret "Resonance:. I also remember the Undead just speaking Latin in Aegis as a way to communicate and sound "extra spooky". I feel like Latin translates to the limited medium of MC chatboxes better than a 'resonance' can. 0 Upvote So, in terms of player disagreement should I work more so on clarification, red lines, and examples, you'd say? I left it somewhat open to interpretation because I did not want to be a creative stickler for whatever someone might be able to come up. In terms of Undead speaking Latin, there is a language that exists that Watyll created, the Black Language. I feel it would be counter-intuitive to create a whole new system for spooks to talk to each other when one already exists, its just underpracticed and has died out in current roleplay. I did attempt to consolidate/rewrite it into this writeup, but I removed that aspect of the post because many saw that as disrespectful to Watyll. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperorFlam 3447 Share Posted March 15, 2018 You can resubmit this in the Lore Submission subforum when it is no longer in its WIP state. If you have any further questions, feel free to send me a PM over the forums or discord at Flamboyant#8856 Topic moved to Denied Lore forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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