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[Shelved]Lore Amendment: Plants Can't Have Babies


Wendigo
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The Kharajyr can't have children with descendants, I'm of the opinion Bryophites should be the same way. I could be wrong but I'm fairly certain we're not meant to even insinuate anything goes on between descendants and Kharajyr through FTB. (This is certainly the preference by the by, I just don't see why it should be any different for plants in the same way it's disallowed for Kharajyr because it's pretty much bestiality.)

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4 hours ago, Swgrclan said:


I think you're in desperate need of staying on track with the subject, because I think you have a knack for flying off the handle to nudge at things that do actually have more defined purpose that what can be boiled down to green versions of normal people. These "pokemon evolutions" of undead have provided roleplay in their own right time and time again, each of them are distinctive unless you're 40% blind and can't read or don't care to try to distinguish them, and more notable members are known for having provided quality roleplay to those that would receive it or approach them.

I didn't ***** about anyone's writing style or inspirations, I insisted that the quality and design of RP presented by the Byrophites is nothing different to what every other normal character portrays, and so the entire race loses a semblance of what it means for it to become unique. And what is this nonsense about "letting people roleplay what they want", like we have no form of standards here? Do you think touting "let people RP what they wanna RP :3" justifies dumbing down roleplay quality because you think allowing a horde of literal green bean people and slice-of-life ghouls to prance around and plague everyone's hubs is a good thing? I don't want to see people twist a concept up until they're essentially snowflake versions of normal player races because it does usher in this highschool roleplay bullshit, which has no business being here, because it doesn't fit, and the day it suddenly fits is the day the server's gone down the gutter.

Get off of your morally posturing high horse.

 

Honest to christ I would rather see slice of life ghouls watering gardens than another cookie-cutter "villain" character that exists only to brood and swing his sword at people. I would gladly roleplay on the Inuyasha forum on fanfiction.net if it meant I would not have to listen to another whiny, pretentious hack moan about how people are "dumbing down" his hackneyed, monotonous, squinting-at-people-from-a-dark-corner "quality roleplay." 

 

It's funny how, despite the fact that I have made less of a conscious effort to roleplay with bryophites than I have with ghouls, I can remember more distinct bryophite characters than I can undead. Maybe there's something to be said about "normie slice of life characters" that just can't be said about a group of people all vying to be the most tedious, monotone edgelord, and it's simply more compelling to roleplay with special characters than to listen to someone wax philosophical with stolen Dark Souls quotes and generic, Rick and Morty nihilism. Maybe green plant people fit into the LoTC setting better than the entire made-up history that's meant to justify Xionism as an ideology. 

 

You quite simply have nothing to argue. Your roleplay, or the roleplay of the "notable members" of the Undead isn't better than anyone else's, and I invite you to prove me otherwise. Every ET application thread that has ever been posted is littered with phrases like "quality roleplay" because it means literally ******* nothing. If you have nothing to say about your roleplay other than your friends' hollow praise, you've nothing to say about other people's "highschool bullshit." 

 

I tout "let people RP what they wanna RP :3" because I'm self-aware enough to know that not everyone enjoys my tastes, and I don't enjoy everyone else's. I'll "stay on topic" when you tell me what's wrong with the roleplay outside of smug, meaningless catchphrases like "highschool roleplay bullshit" and when you use your chops as a former lore team member to actually develop an argument.

 

Edited by tavern_roleplay
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For what it's worth, I think the Bryophites are fine. Yes, most of the Bryos I've interacted with go whole hog into Slice of Life RP. Is that a bad thing? Not everyone can be the glorious paladin in golden armor, wielding the Ashbringer astride a white horse. Not everyone can be the immortal soul of a necromancer god who wants to dominate all life. Spooky Scary Skeletons and Bogeymen need "normies" to terrify. Heroes need "normies" to protecc.

Bryophites being capable of breeding freely with non-Bryophites is fairly disturbing, as you're having sweet sweet lovins' with a literal bush. From what I understand, Cerridwen is an Aspect. She is the Aengul of plants and life. Aspects don't really give a rat's ass about people according to the druids I talk to. If becoming a bryophite were, say, a conscious decision, rather than an "Oh **** this moss forced me to change. Guess I'm stuck this way.. WHEEE~!" Perhaps this way it could be roleplayed with an appropriate gravity.

 

A conscious decision to permanently change one's race and genetics and curse, much akin to the Azdrazi, would do well at creating such a gravity.  Instead of "green people with additional downsides and the same curse." We have a subrace that can have babies the same way Kharajyr do. This is to say, without going into some fetishes best left unexplored. You trade your original curse for one that changes you in a way not dissimilar to Azdrazi. Forced worship of nature. The inability to learn or utilize voidal or dark magics. Being extremely allergic to fire. Perhaps not even needing to eat?

There is of course, more than one way to handle the "Unholy spawn of Iblees herself!" that is Bryophites being capable of engaging in Woo-hoo! and producing descendant offspring. If this is even something that matters, what with literal Undead being capable of making babies. Yes, you're flesh and blood because you drank this really creepy potion. Congratulations. You're still a corpse, as is shown when you revive.

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29 minutes ago, tavern_roleplay said:

 

Honest to christ I would rather see slice of life ghouls watering gardens than another cookie-cutter "villain" character that exists only to brood and swing his sword at people. I would gladly roleplay on the Inuyasha forum on fanfiction.net if it meant I would not have to listen to another whiny, pretentious hack moan about how people are "dumbing down" his hackneyed, monotonous, squinting-at-people-from-a-dark-corner "quality roleplay." 

 

It's funny how, despite the fact that I have made less of a conscious effort to roleplay with bryophites than I have with ghouls, I can remember more distinct bryophite characters than I can undead. Maybe there's something to be said about "normie slice of life characters" that just can't be said about a group of people all vying to be the most tedious, monotone edgelord, and it's simply more compelling to roleplay with special characters than to listen to someone wax philosophical with stolen Dark Souls quotes and generic, Rick and Morty narcissism. Maybe green plant people fit into the LoTC setting better than the entire made-up history that's meant to justify Xionism as an ideology. 

 

You quite simply have nothing to argue. Your roleplay, or the roleplay of the "notable members" of the Undead isn't better than anyone else's, and I invite you to prove me otherwise. Every ET application thread that has ever been posted is littered with phrases like "quality roleplay" because it means literally ******* nothing. If you have nothing to say about your roleplay other than your friends' hollow praise, you've nothing to say about other people's "highschool bullshit." 

 

I tout "let people RP what they wanna RP :3" because I'm self-aware enough to know that not everyone enjoys my tastes, and I don't enjoy everyone else's. I'll "stay on topic" when you tell me what's wrong with the roleplay outside of smug, meaningless catchphrases like "highschool roleplay bullshit" and when you use your chops as a former lore team member to actually develop an argument.

 

 

Making a post surrounding your thoughts goes a long way, which is what the original poster of the thread did. If you have your own issues with the server then that's something else for a different thread. There's no reason to derail something else, which is completely unrelated, just to try and get a point across and jab at another player. I'd address issues you have with Xionism and what not but there's no real reason to do so in this thread. This one is about why someone thinks plant people should not be able to have sex with descendants, and furthermore why they shouldn't then get pregnant with a descendant baby. People have different tastes, but some things can be distinctly unfitting, unless you'd also argue that Kharajyr and descendants should just be able to do the same as Bryophites purely because they have a different taste in RP. There's a place for everything, but I'd argue that setting a precedent of not having sex with anthropomorphic cats simultaneously means not having sex with anthropomorphic plants for obvious reasons.

 

I don't see any argument defending this piece in the lore from you aside from targeting separate pieces of lore and the players involved with them. What part of a Bryophite having sex is integral to the players' of said Bryophites enjoyment? What does this add and detract from the server and the players in it? Why should they be a form of exception compared to Kharajyr when in all reality, the Kharajyr would want it for the same reason as the Bryphite player base? If you don't see the core of the argument there then that's a different issue altogether.

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5 minutes ago, tavern_roleplay said:

 

Honest to christ I would rather see slice of life ghouls watering gardens than another cookie-cutter "villain" character that exists only to brood and swing his sword at people. I would gladly roleplay on the Inuyasha forum on fanfiction.net if it meant I would not have to listen to another whiny, pretentious hack moan about how people are "dumbing down" his hackneyed, monotonous, squinting-at-people-from-a-dark-corner "quality roleplay." 

 

It's funny how, despite the fact that I have made less of a conscious effort to roleplay with bryophites than I have with ghouls, I can remember more distinct bryophite characters than I can undead. Maybe there's something to be said about "normie slice of life characters" that just can't be said about a group of people all vying to be the most tedious, monotone edgelord, and it's simply more compelling to roleplay with interesting characters than to listen to someone wax philosophical with stolen Dark Souls quotes and generic, Rick and Morty narcissism. Maybe green plant people fit into the LoTC setting better than the entire made-up history that's meant to justify Xionism as an ideology. 

 

You quite simply have nothing to argue. Your roleplay, or the roleplay of the "notable members" of the Undead isn't better than anyone else's, and I invite you to prove me otherwise. Every ET application thread that has ever been posted is littered with phrases like "quality roleplay" because it means literally ******* nothing. If you have nothing to say about your roleplay other than your friends' hollow praise, you've nothing to say about other people's "highschool bullshit." 

 

I tout "let people RP what they wanna RP :3" because I'm self-aware enough to know that not everyone enjoys my tastes, and I don't enjoy everyone else's. I'll "stay on topic" when you tell me what's wrong with the roleplay outside of smug, meaningless catchphrases like "highschool roleplay bullshit" and when you use your chops as a former lore team member to actually develop an argument.

 

 

6 minutes ago, tavern_roleplay said:

 

Honest to christ I would rather see slice of life ghouls watering gardens than another cookie-cutter "villain" character that exists only to brood and swing his sword at people. I would gladly roleplay on the Inuyasha forum on fanfiction.net if it meant I would not have to listen to another whiny, pretentious hack moan about how people are "dumbing down" his hackneyed, monotonous, squinting-at-people-from-a-dark-corner "quality roleplay." 

 

It's funny how, despite the fact that I have made less of a conscious effort to roleplay with bryophites than I have with ghouls, I can remember more distinct bryophite characters than I can undead. Maybe there's something to be said about "normie slice of life characters" that just can't be said about a group of people all vying to be the most tedious, monotone edgelord, and it's simply more compelling to roleplay with interesting characters than to listen to someone wax philosophical with stolen Dark Souls quotes and generic, Rick and Morty narcissism. Maybe green plant people fit into the LoTC setting better than the entire made-up history that's meant to justify Xionism as an ideology. 

 

You quite simply have nothing to argue. Your roleplay, or the roleplay of the "notable members" of the Undead isn't better than anyone else's, and I invite you to prove me otherwise. Every ET application thread that has ever been posted is littered with phrases like "quality roleplay" because it means literally ******* nothing. If you have nothing to say about your roleplay other than your friends' hollow praise, you've nothing to say about other people's "highschool bullshit." 

 

I tout "let people RP what they wanna RP :3" because I'm self-aware enough to know that not everyone enjoys my tastes, and I don't enjoy everyone else's. I'll "stay on topic" when you tell me what's wrong with the roleplay outside of smug, meaningless catchphrases like "highschool roleplay bullshit" and when you use your chops as a former lore team member to actually develop an argument.

 


If you got your head out of your ass and used your eyeballs to read the last two things you've replied to instead of, again, groaning incessantly like a child about my Miyazaki grimdark fantasy preferences you would actually grasp what my complaint about these Byrophites is. I will spell it out one more time - and note this isn't an invitation to whittle out five more snarky, cunty paragraphs that remark about MUH LORE preferences because you play the "pick on x person because they derive inspiration from a video game or nip animation series" trend in a scrambling, misunderstood defense against what I've been saying.

Byrophites shouldn't be normalized. If they want to be a creature instead of some borderline vaccine-induced gaggle of green normie people, they need to express they deviate from actual mortal characters. The fact they're green, plant-based versions of people breaches any semblance of them being a "creature" instead of a "race" in the server.

I don't even know who you are, but I can EASILY tell why you're thrown into a panic to defend the ridiculous idea of plant people becoming pregnant and then birthing humanoid, mammalian spawn.
f74d67596a09b7c7e5a8e69dacdf8ecb.png That's probably why.

I see where you're coming from with this "keep the elitists from ******* everything up" standpoint, and I'm not blaming you here from taking that position, but what I'm trying to get across is that these undead races you whinged about were distinctive enough to poise themselves in a unique manner in RP, and therefore are deserving of being categorized as creatures because they're different from everyone else in various defined aspects. They are incapable of being normalized, even if helped with some nonsense like the Draught of Incite (I'll take the blame for that one), and that distances them from the primary racial groups.

The Byrophites, however, lack little distinction other than being leafy and flammable. Do they act normally? Check. Does their plantmatter-based composition physically differentiate them from everyone else? As far as I've seen in roleplay, no. Can they use magic? Check. Can they make children? Check. Can they essentially be incorporated as a race like Humans and Elves because of these facts? Yeah. That's bad, and sets a bad precedent.

The reason I've rambled about "roleplay integrity" and "roleplay quality" is because this server is objectively not supposed to be like an anime Highschool roleplay setting where everyone can be everything at once - this is factual. It doesn't matter what your viewpoint is here, because the composition of the entire ethos and setting doesn't allow it. However, when we start allowing things like Byrophites, who only exist to marginally differentiate themselves from everyone else, yet become acceptable at the same time because they may as well be no different, we're going to see a lack of specialty in the entire concept surrounding playable creatures because people will just start expecting things to start strolling through. It's the same deal with magic -- there's too much of it. In fact, it's the same deal with undead things as well. There's too much **** and it's being normalized; the weight and the potential experience behind these concepts is dimished the more **** that comes out and is normalized.
 

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thats it im bringing out the lawn mower

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1 hour ago, ⅢSliceⅢ said:

 

Making a post surrounding your thoughts goes a long way, which is what the original poster of the thread did. If you have your own issues with the server then that's something else for a different thread. There's no reason to derail something else, which is completely unrelated, just to try and get a point across and jab at another player. I'd address issues you have with Xionism and what not but there's no real reason to do so in this thread. This one is about why someone thinks plant people should not be able to have sex with descendants, and furthermore why they shouldn't then get pregnant with a descendant baby. People have different tastes, but some things can be distinctly unfitting, unless you'd also argue that Kharajyr and descendants should just be able to do the same as Bryophites purely because they have a different taste in RP. There's a place for everything, but I'd argue that setting a precedent of not having sex with anthropomorphic cats simultaneously means not having sex with anthropomorphic plants for obvious reasons.

 

I don't see any argument defending this piece in the lore from you aside from targeting separate pieces of lore and the players involved with them. What part of a Bryophite having sex is integral to the players' of said Bryophites enjoyment? What does this add and detract from the server and the players in it? Why should they be a form of exception compared to Kharajyr when in all reality, the Kharajyr would want it for the same reason as the Bryphite player base? If you don't see the core of the argument there then that's a different issue altogether.

 

See, this is a solid argument that addresses the thread topic. I don't have answers to the questions you're posing. I do have answers to Swgr's smug, off-topic editorializing, which happen to be that I find his RP preferences obnoxious and his attitude completely repugnant. I don't know how it's a hard concept that when you insult people in an argument, it's okay and not off-topic to defend those people. Maybe if you weren't using the thin facade of "argument" to pass off your special preferences as legitimate criticism, I would respect anything you were saying. 

 

1 hour ago, Swgrclan said:

 

I don't even know who you are, but I can EASILY tell why you're thrown into a panic to defend the ridiculous idea of plant people becoming pregnant and then birthing humanoid, mammalian spawn.
 

 

I'm not. 

 

1 hour ago, Swgrclan said:

 

If you got your head out of your ass and used your eyeballs to read the last two things you've replied to instead of, again, groaning incessantly like a child about my Miyazaki grimdark fantasy preferences you would actually grasp what my complaint about these Byrophites is. I will spell it out one more time - and note this isn't an invitation to whittle out five more snarky, cunty paragraphs that remark about MUH LORE preferences because you play the "pick on x person because they derive inspiration from a video game or nip animation series" trend in a scrambling, misunderstood defense against what I've been saying.

Byrophites shouldn't be normalized. If they want to be a creature instead of some borderline vaccine-induced gaggle of green normie people, they need to express they deviate from actual mortal characters. The fact they're green, plant-based versions of people breaches any semblance of them being a "creature" instead of a "race" in the server.
 

 

If you could go a single sentence without throwing a spastic fit, I think I could read what you were saying, and possibly even agree with it. But you're just too conceited. You started the "pick on x person because they derive inspiration from a video game or nip animation series" by flailing your arms and shrieking "this is anime high school bullshit!!!" and you gave me the opportunity to pick on your RP preferences when you started this argument by snarking at someone else's RP preferences. The fact that I think your roleplay is obnoxious is tertiary to the fact that you seem to think your roleplay preferences should be enforced on everyone else.

 

1 hour ago, Swgrclan said:

 

I see where you're coming from with this "keep the elitists from ******* everything up" standpoint, and I'm not blaming you here from taking that position, but what I'm trying to get across is that these undead races you whinged about were distinctive enough to poise themselves in a unique manner in RP, and therefore are deserving of being categorized as creatures because they're different from everyone else in various defined aspects. They are incapable of being normalized, even if helped with some nonsense like the Draught of Incite (I'll take the blame for that one), and that distances them from the primary racial groups.

The Byrophites, however, lack little distinction other than being leafy and flammable. Do they act normally? Check. Does their plantmatter-based composition physically differentiate them from everyone else? As far as I've seen in roleplay, no. Can they use magic? Check. Can they make children? Check. Can they essentially be incorporated as a race like Humans and Elves because of these facts? Yeah. That's bad, and sets a bad precedent.

The reason I've rambled about "roleplay integrity" and "roleplay quality" is because this server is objectively not supposed to be like an anime Highschool roleplay setting where everyone can be everything at once - this is factual. It doesn't matter what your viewpoint is here, because the composition of the entire ethos and setting doesn't allow it. However, when we start allowing things like Byrophites, who only exist to marginally differentiate themselves from everyone else, yet become acceptable at the same time because they may as well be no different, we're going to see a lack of specialty in the entire concept surrounding playable creatures because people will just start expecting things to start strolling through. It's the same deal with magic -- there's too much of it. In fact, it's the same deal with undead things as well. There's too much **** and it's being normalized; the weight and the potential experience behind these concepts is dimished the more **** that comes out and is normalized.
 

 

I don't think your distinction between undead and descendants is meaningful, especially if you consider the sort of characters that become undead. People created ghoul characters in Axios so they could have the necrolyte buff in PvP, people create ghoul characters now so they can emote not feeling pain or bleeding in roleplay combat. These characters are so empty and one-dimensional that there isn't really a difference between how they act living or dead. 

 

The simple fact is, if we were sliding down the slippery slope of "and then they'll be playing pink haired anime high school girls," we reached the bottom of that slope already. It is almost universally agreed that there are too many CA's, too many for it to mean anything to be a special creature, too many for the lore team to manage efficiently. The problem I have is that while I would like creatures to be "special," I do not want a group of people trying to copy whatever video game/TV/anime setting they like into the LoTC setting and punishing other players for roleplaying outside of that vision. It was Game of Thrones in 3.0, Dragon Age in 4.0, the Witcher in Vailor and Soulsborne in Axios. 

 

I agree that it's silly that a plant should be able to pop out a human baby, except that it's a fantasy setting and if you take fantasy too seriously it collapses into a sludge of grimdark edge bullshit. The best fantasy settings embrace the inherent silliness of a world populated by magical elves and plant people, and invite the viewer to do the same thing. That's what make them entertaining. Being the killjoy that takes everyone out of their immersion to tell everyone that circumstances predicated on literal magic could not happen does not help anyone.

Edited by tavern_roleplay
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24 minutes ago, tavern_roleplay said:

 

-Snip-

 

 

I don't see how the aforementioned precedent isn't an argument.

 

This is also assuming that a player base previously against anything like Kharajyr reproducing with descendants would swap opinions when it comes to plants as opposed to cats. It's the same basis, and it adds nothing to the RP surrounding the race. The only positive I can see being added from this is wholly founded in a perspective where anyone should be able to do what they want from the argument of people having different tastes; that positive being that if someone wants their character to have sex with a plant they're now enabled to do so. Granted, this would also be a saving grace for the Kharajyr to do the same since it's under the same premise and scenario.

 

You're not defending anyone, you're just voicing your opinion on a separate topic while eluding to the thread via quoting what Swgr's said thus far in a mocking fashion. Aside from those minor notes you're then typing out paragraphs on the Undead and your dislikes on them. If you have an issue with that you're going to hold a lot more ground making your own thread with thought out criticisms.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, tavern_roleplay said:

 

See, this is a solid argument that addresses the thread topic. I don't have answers to the questions you're posing. I do have answers to Swgr's smug, off-topic editorializing, which happen to be that I find his RP preferences obnoxious and his attitude completely repugnant. I don't know how it's a hard concept that when you insult people in an argument, it's okay and not off-topic to defend those people. Maybe if you weren't using the thin facade of "argument" to pass off your special preferences as legitimate criticism, I would respect anything you were saying. 

 

 

I'm not. 

 

 

If you could go a single sentence without throwing a spastic fit, I think I could read what you were saying, and possibly even agree with it. But you're just too conceited. You started the "pick on x person because they derive inspiration from a video game or nip animation series" by flailing your arms and shrieking "this is anime high school bullshit!!!" and you gave me the opportunity to pick on your RP preferences when you started this argument by snarking at someone else's RP preferences. The fact that I think your roleplay is obnoxious is tertiary to the fact that you seem to think your roleplay preferences should be enforced on everyone else.

 

 

I don't think your distinction between undead and descendants is meaningful, especially if you consider the sort of characters that become undead. People created ghoul characters in Axios so they could have the necrolyte buff in PvP, people create ghoul characters now so they can emote not feeling pain or bleeding in roleplay combat. These characters are so empty and one-dimensional that there isn't really a difference between how they act living or dead. 

 

The simple fact is, if we were sliding down the slippery slope of "and then they'll be playing pink haired anime high school girls," we reached the bottom of that slope already. It is almost universally agreed that there are too many CA's, too many for it to mean anything to be a special creature, too many for the lore team to manage efficiently. The problem I have is that while I would like creatures to be "special," I do not want a group of people trying to copy whatever video game/TV/anime setting they like into the LoTC setting and punishing other players for roleplaying outside of that vision. It was Game of Thrones in 3.0, Dragon Age in 4.0, the Witcher in Vailor and Soulsborne in Axios. 

 

I agree that it's silly that a plant should be able to pop out a human baby, except that it's a fantasy setting and if you take fantasy too seriously it collapses into a sludge of grimdark edge bullshit. The best fantasy settings embrace the inherent silliness of a world populated by magical elves and plant people, and invite the viewer to do the same thing. That's what make them entertaining. Being the killjoy that takes everyone out of their immersion to tell everyone that circumstances predicated on literal magic could not happen does not help anyone.


I typed up a couple paragraphs of some snarky nonsense but I don't think I want to put in the mental fortitude necessary to partake in roleplay morality arguments. I will agree that some points are valid but that some of mine are better than others you've put forward.

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And on this day, Tavern_Roleplay stood up against the Scholars of the First Sin.

 

DEXATI20180114065331.png

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I never thought I'd see so much debate about pregnant plants. 

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this entire thread is idiotic. utter chaos. jesus christ you people need help sometimes.

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This thread is dead. Why are you people still arguing about literally nothing? We've come to a conclusion. If you people actually read the stuff from Crayphish, they're in the middle of rewriting that part of the lore basically to be only between bryophites, to be ritualistic and non sexual as far as reproduction goes, and to be far more MAGICAL in nature. 

 

This thread should be closed. 

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