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[✗] [Aengudaemon Rewrite] Wyrvun, Lord of the Deep Cold

75 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, Delmodan said:

*squints*

Just going to correct this right away. No. That's not how that even works. 

b93f70e4c82ec7eb0c6c6e106008fc29.png

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2 minutes ago, Aeldrin said:

Edel and I have been working on an official written religion based around Wyrvun for the Snow Elves, and literally had to stop because he's not nearly fleshed out enough to base an entire religion on. Aside from his fall and redemption, nothing is written about him, from which no values and beliefs can actually be derived. This rewrite is an absolute necessity if Wyrvun is to actually be used in roleplay, instead of locked away as some out-used deity until the Lore Team puts him out of his mercy by shelving him.UpvoteUpvote

 

The Brathmordakin as the dwarves understand and worship them have almost no aneguls or daemons to attribute them to in ANY canon lore. If you want to make a religion, write stuff up that develops through cultural structure not an attempt to change event or server lore to validate your beliefs.

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1 minute ago, Josh3738 said:

 

The Brathmordakin as the dwarves understand and worship them have almost no aneguls or daemons to attribute them to in ANY canon lore. If you want to make a religion, write stuff up that develops through cultural structure not an attempt to change event or server lore to validate your beliefs.

You removed Wyvrun from the Brathmordakin?... The Frostbeards rebelled because of this?...

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Just now, Treaty said:

You removed Wyvrun from the Brathmordakin?... The Frostbeards rebelled because of this?...

 

How is this in any way relevant to rewriting wyvrun lore?

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3 minutes ago, Josh3738 said:

 

The Brathmordakin as the dwarves understand and worship them have almost no aneguls or daemons to attribute them to in ANY canon lore. If you want to make a religion, write stuff up that develops through cultural structure not an attempt to change event or server lore to validate your beliefs.

 

Just a note, this is not a religion lore. I did not intend for it to be a religion lore, and I have a completely separate document for anything cultural. Even the Snow Elves are mentioned sparsely in this thread, because I wanted to modernize into a useable Aengul, losing as little of the original information on him (which is incredibly, incredibly sparse if you go to what is publicly available), Wyrvun.

 

Here's the thread, that, if you'll notice, stops at The Chaining of Ondnarch.

 

https://www.lordofthecraft.net/forums/topic/121441-wyrvun-aengul/

 

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Just now, Josh3738 said:

 

How is this in any way relevant to rewriting wyvrun lore?

You just brought up the Brathmordakin?

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5 minutes ago, Josh3738 said:

 

The Brathmordakin as the dwarves understand and worship them have almost no aneguls or daemons to attribute them to in ANY canon lore. If you want to make a religion, write stuff up that develops through cultural structure not an attempt to change event or server lore to validate your beliefs.

The Snow Elven culture has worshiped Wyrvun since 3.0. I'd say that's plenty of cultural development into the religion. Your suggestion would uproot 3-4 years of Snow Elven cultural practices, and it's literally in the lore that Wyrvun created the Snow Elves. Who else would the Snow Elves worship other than their creator?

 

This isn't about the religion so much as the fact that nobody can make an in-depth  religion based off of Wyrvun when basically no information exists about Wyrvun except that which relates to the 3.0 eventline.

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1 minute ago, Edel said:

snippity

about cernunnos taking over dominion of winter n such, while that sounds neat, it doesn't really work the aspects or make sense with cernunnos. just my two sense as a druid for the past few years. i'd change that bit.

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You are taking his words and taking quite a mile with it. The aspects guard over the natural balance and nature itself. There isn't a 'well Wyvern had the winter season control then Cernunnos steps in once he's out of the way'. There's not even a comparison there. They don't even control ice and snow. Nature's seasons are apart of just that, nature. There's no ruling over such. This Aengul was known for his powers over the ice and snow. A way to fix it is to just not mention it at all given nothing is even compared here. It just seems very randomly placed in. 

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3 minutes ago, Edel said:

 

Just a note, this is not a religion lore. I did not intend for it to be a religion lore, and I have a completely separate document for anything cultural. Even the Snow Elves are mentioned sparsely in this thread, because I wanted to modernize into a useable Aengul, losing as little of the original information on him (which is incredibly, incredibly sparse if you go to what is publicly available), Wyrvun.

 

Here's the thread, that, if you'll notice, stops at The Chaining of Ondnarch.

 

https://www.lordofthecraft.net/forums/topic/121441-wyrvun-aengul/

 

 

My point is that wyvrun doesn't need to be "modernized" as you put it to be worshiped as buff mentions.

 

3 minutes ago, Treaty said:

You just brought up the Brathmordakin?

 

As an example. Read through the previous remarks and it'll make more sense.

 

2 minutes ago, Aeldrin said:

The Snow Elven culture has worshiped Wyrvun since 3.0. I'd say that's plenty of cultural development into the religion. Your suggestion would uproot 3-4 years of Snow Elven cultural practices, and it's literally in the lore that Wyrvun created the Snow Elves. Who else would the Snow Elves worship other than their creator?

 

My suggestion is to NOT CHANGE ANYTHING, thereby preserving what has developed since we first vassalized you. The suggested changes, in my thought, don't need to be made to do what you want done as I explained in my comparison with the Brathmordakin.

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7 minutes ago, Archipelego said:

about cernunnos taking over dominion of winter n such, while that sounds neat, it doesn't really work the aspects or make sense with cernunnos. just my two sense as a druid for the past few years. i'd change that bit.

 

It didn't make sense to me that Wyrvun has always been, in every writing of him that I've found, called the "Lord of the Deep Cold", with dominion over everything frost and ice, and the Aengul of Winter is Cernunnos. My lore attempts to rectify that, by saying his control over the season is long gone, with the Aspect firmly in control. If you have a better solution, please tell me so we can work together to make everyone happy!

 

You are taking his words and taking quite a mile with it. The aspects guard over the natural balance and nature itself. There isn't a 'well Wyvern had the winter season control then Cernunnos steps in once he's out of the way'. There's not even a comparison there. They don't even control ice and snow. Nature's seasons are apart of just that, nature. There's no ruling over such. This Aengul was known for his powers over the ice and snow. A way to fix it is to just not mention it at all given nothing is even compared here. It just seems very randomly placed in. 

 

Also, my understanding was that Cernunnos was the Aengul of Fall and Winter - it says it in their lore page. If that understanding is incorrect, I can omit any mention of Cernunnos, though it wouldn't make sense for Wyrvun to have lost control over that overarching idea of winter/the cold.

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Just now, Edel said:

 

It didn't make sense to me that Wyrvun has always been, in every writing of him that I've found, called the "Lord of the Deep Cold", with dominion over everything frost and ice, and the Aengul of Winter is Cernunnos. My lore attempts to rectify that, by saying his control over the season is long gone, with the Aspect firmly in control. If you have a better solution, please tell me so we can work together to make everyone happy!

aspects dont hold dominion over the seasons

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3 minutes ago, Delmodan said:

You are taking his words and taking quite a mile with it. The aspects guard over the natural balance and nature itself. There isn't a 'well Wyvern had the winter season control then Cernunnos steps in once he's out of the way'. There's not even a comparison there. They don't even control ice and snow. Nature's seasons are apart of just that, nature. There's no ruling over such. This Aengul was known for his powers over the ice and snow. A way to fix it is to just not mention it at all given nothing is even compared here. It just seems very randomly placed in. 

Uhhhh.... Check your lore

https://gyazo.com/494ddf047767e9f8df849a08779f6b79

Looks closer....

https://gyazo.com/89d795b087015e11bd14be0e8ce271e0

hm...

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1 minute ago, Josh3738 said:

My suggestion is to NOT CHANGE ANYTHING, thereby preserving what has developed since we first vassalized you. The suggested changes, in my thought, don't need to be made to do what you want done as I explained in my comparison with the Brathmordakin.

Seeing as we have ambitions for the development of an eventual Wyrvunic deity magic and actual use of Wyrvun in roleplay and at some potential point events, Wyrvun as a deity actually needs to be fleshed out. The 3.0 eventline was brilliant, but Wyrvun's lore only exists in relation to that. Outside of that eventline, he is nothing. He needs fleshed out beliefs, stances, attributes, and further histories.

 

I don't see why you're opposed to a piece of lore that only fleshes out an Aengul and gives him actual use on the server, as opposed to letting him rot away.

 

Furthermore, we were told that unless something was done, Wyrvun would be shelved. I don't see how you don't get that.

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