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[✗] [Aengudaemon Rewrite] Wyrvun, Lord of the Deep Cold

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1 hour ago, Dreek said:

I don't know If some other lore rewrite cucked wyrvun while I wasn't paying attention, but there is way too much focus here on wyrvun being the snow ice whatever aengul. Wyrvun valued the purity of heart fron corruption, for obvious reasons, above all else. This was heavily intertwined with the event line I ran as well. It is, really, more true that it was ondnarch was far more focused on the deep cold than wyrvun was, and that wyrvun was instead the aengul of purity.

 

I'm not sure if Wyvrun could be counted as the Aengul of Purity since Tahariae has been that for the past 5-6 years (with clerics existing back in Aegis).

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1 hour ago, The Pink Lion said:

 

I'm not sure if Wyvrun could be counted as the Aengul of Purity since Tahariae has been that for the past 5-6 years (with clerics existing back in Aegis).

If that's true then fair enough, but I remember the lore zezimjs writing focusing on wyrvun being about purity, and ondnarch being more about the cold.

 

And Suddenly retconning it ignores major server events in favor of rewrites

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2 hours ago, The Pink Lion said:

 

I'm not sure if Wyvrun could be counted as the Aengul of Purity since Tahariae has been that for the past 5-6 years (with clerics existing back in Aegis).

more in the way of virtue, 'purity of spirit', like nobility and stuff, not purity/cleansing in the same way as tah

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10 hours ago, Aelsioln said:

 

I know you're not saying he is the Aengul of Purity but 

"he was called the embodiment of Purity

I'd recommend removing mention of Purity there, just cause Tahariae has been established as being rather picky of people crediting his work to anyone else (RIP Creator Clerics). Other embodiments fit much better anyways to me considering that snow and ice are very easy to make impure. 

 

5 hours ago, Dreek said:

If that's true then fair enough, but I remember the lore zezimjs writing focusing on wyrvun being about purity, and ondnarch being more about the cold.

 

And Suddenly retconning it ignores major server events in favor of rewrites

 

 

My reason for including purity in that first "iteration" of Wyrvun is, in a way, a nod to what Wyrvun felt to be in the old write-ups. In modernity, that expansive idea would be dropped in favor of the idea of virtue and redemption.

 

I've added more into the lore touching on this, quoted below, as I do believe that Wyrvun's persona as a type of lover of the kind and virtuous can coexist with Tahariae's very hardcore "Purity above all else". To fit with the others in the Aengudaemon lists, specification was key in my opinion - he loved purity of heart from corruption, as you said, and that is very nearly the definition of virtue. It might be a bit repetitive in the way I wrote it, but I think it should at least make clear that the kind of duality and very close relationship between stories about the virtuous and their tragedies or falls from grace, and later redemption stories, is something Wyrvun takes especially close to heart. It is something that, in terms of Aengudaemons, would lack much of the impact if it were just background lore and not an actual server event - many peoples' first interactions with him was as Ondnarch, this ramaging, destructive beast, but Wyrvun at his core is a very kind, empathic Aengul that just wants people to be happy, and love the snow as much as him. That kind of empathy and single-minded joy is found in Yeu Rthulu, but the two are vastly different in operation and circumstance. He does not preach forgiveness for crimes committed, but is more like a remediator of circumstance, as an Aengul whose following is now much more often than not considered to be damned (see: Frostbeards, Snow Elves, Frost Witches to an extent, anyone that ever says they love Wyrvun). This rewrite would set Wyrvun as something like the idea of white snow - an enchanting second that lasts an eternity (which is why Eternity is also included in the list, other than the idea that eternity ties very closely to redemption and penitence).

 

Wyrvun is among the most explicit in his purpose, one that has not changed in overarching action since his birth - the celebration of winter among mortals, protection of those lands eternally coated in winter and its inhabitants, and, after his release, the uplifting of the damned. With those long years spent in chains, Wyrvun's purpose has been honed, and in a sense, reborn. For the virtuous lost, the masses cast from society from machinations not their own, he is an often unseen savior. Called the Redeemed, it is his taken prerogative to bring a second chance to those innocent souls cursed by their once-was and had-been. His miracles are such that few would credit him - perhaps, in a blizzard, the snow might for a second seem to create a passage, or the lonely pilgrim of the wastes chance upon an abandoned shack or cave in which to rest.

 

On another note, thanks for all the feedback. I'm just one guy, and the more conversation and critique there is the better the lore will be. The reason I wrote this lore isn't to make a magic (you might notice I've never made an MA in my life, and I've played only Elves and Humans since Aegis), and not for the Snow Elf religion (that lore was written months ago, I just never got around to posting it). I already have a Snow Elf race accepted on the server - truthfully, Wyrvun in his current state would work just fine for any of my personal purposes.

 

The fact of the matter is that before this, there were a grand total of three easy-to-find threads on Wyrvun, the three linked by Benbo's compilation (which happen to be the same content as the compilation, and which was written in 2015 without mention of the event line). The Ondnarch event line happened something like 3 years ago - so long ago that I believe I had just stopped being the Count of Ager in Oren, Throdo was still prominent, and the Adunians were catching maces. If it's still something anyone can find on the forums, it's long been buried. By essentially porting it into the modern format, and taking critique from any original writers willing to give input (I've tried to include everything Dreek has brought up, as best as can be done within the guidelines of current lore), Wyrvun will turn from an Aengul that cannot be used except for the most years-old and/or vague mentions about Dwarven history into one with accessible lore, well-defined characteristics, and more possible relation to the playerbase at large.

 

One complaint I haven't addressed is to not dredge up this old lore. In general, I am a big fan of leaving things as-is. I could obviously write loads of lore, talking about every single plant and snowflake from Aegis to Atlas. Wyrvun, however, is a different case - the argument cannot be reasonably made that information on him is easily accessible, nor can it really be made that in his current form, he isn't dead lore. For one of the most player-interactive, engaging event lines of all time, Wyrvun is an incredibly obscure Aengul. He's no longer in the Brathmordakin. He isn't the patron of the Frost Witches. Only the Snow Elves worship him, and who likes the Snow Elves? I'm not saying that we should make a magic around him - we could, but I would at most be taking an advisory stance on any lore of that kind. I'm not trying to turn him into my personal deity - check the last time I was on the server. I'm just trying to make Wyrvun lore that is at least usable for even the most minute of needs or wants, to make lore that is compatible with legends, and artifacts, and the modern write-ups that every other Aengudaemon has either gone through or will be going through. Going through the effort of building a rewrite and taking critiques in an attempt to satisfy as many parties as possible is, in my opinion, a greater compliment to the original lore than letting it sit around, to eventually be thrown out or completely, unrecognizably redone as so many other lore pieces from Aegis-Anthos were.

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42 minutes ago, Edel said:

. He's no longer in the Brathmordakin. He isn't the patron of the Frost Witches. Only the Snow Elves worship him, and who likes the Snow Elves? UpvoteUpvote

The frostbeards, to my knowledge, still worship him as their main diety. So he isn't solely a snow elf, nor should he ever be if I'm honest. I appreciate you trying to be diplomatic and stating your personal intentions clearly, but buff' s statements worry me.

 

Wyrvun did not need a rewrite, he did not need to be fleshed out. The aengul itself and and Ondnarch were entirely developed through in-game means. You cited that there were only a handful of lore docs publicly on him, that's because he is one of the few parts of the server left that was developed naturally. By creating this rewrite it destroys that special aspect that wyrvun and by effect ondnarch possess. That event line  had the most impact on dwarves history in the entire servers history. This is a widely accepted truth held by those who were around then and are still in contact now. I'm not sure you, or buff or anyone else defending this rewrite understands that. There was nothing wrong with the current info on wyrvun. Sure, it may be a bit short on the forums, but it carries so much weight. Maybe it's because I don't like the new concept this server has of lore before roleplay, but I cannot stand by and let something the forms much of modern day dwarven history on the server be rewritten and adapted to fit a snow elf populace.

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1 hour ago, Dreek said:

The frostbeards, to my knowledge, still worship him as their main diety. So he isn't solely a snow elf, nor should he ever be if I'm honest. I appreciate you trying to be diplomatic and stating your personal intentions clearly, but buff' s statements worry me.

 

Wyrvun did not need a rewrite, he did not need to be fleshed out. The aengul itself and and Ondnarch were entirely developed through in-game means. You cited that there were only a handful of lore docs publicly on him, that's because he is one of the few parts of the server left that was developed naturally. By creating this rewrite it destroys that special aspect that wyrvun and by effect ondnarch possess. That event line  had the most impact on dwarves history in the entire servers history. This is a widely accepted truth held by those who were around then and are still in contact now. I'm not sure you, or buff or anyone else defending this rewrite understands that. There was nothing wrong with the current info on wyrvun. Sure, it may be a bit short on the forums, but it carries so much weight. Maybe it's because I don't like the new concept this server has of lore before roleplay, but I cannot stand by and let something the forms much of modern day dwarven history on the server be rewritten and adapted to fit a snow elf populace.

 

I honestly don't think this is as much of a rewrite as you are making it out to be. All of your documents are included in the story, very little of it except for the "following" section, which is, in essence, a summary of current ingame usage, has Snow Elf content, and the only functionally new part of him is the Realm.

 

I have, in fact, done little but reword much of the depictions of him and his backstory section. You can find nearly the same thing in Benbo's post.

 

It was less of a rewrite and more of an information release because, while in the past the guiding rule was to put low info on the forums and have most of the content found ingame, that isn't the current trend. I did a literal copy paste of your event line from the documents into the Ondnarch section, in fact. Not a single rp word in that spoiler was changed from what you sent me.

 

The changes are additions in sections that did not exist yet, which is significantly different from an overwrite. The changes are additional descriptors on what occured, or condensed versions of the very cryptic information you can find. The changes are not like, for example, the complete change of all Elven races, or the change of Aeriel from a biblical Archangel to the current Soul Stream protector.

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58 minutes ago, Edel said:

The changes are not like, for example, the complete change of all Elven races, or the change of Aeriel from a biblical Archangel to the current Soul Stream protector.

Ooof. Someone get the burn salve.

 

Good lore, by the way. People are too uptight, but /do/ remember that he isn't just a snelf thing.

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hi ho hi ho aenguldaemon lore is bloated and contradictory because each piece was written mostly in a vacuum as opposed to in collaboration with one another in the interest of creating a coherent pantheon hi ho hi ho

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No one else post. It’s at 69 replies. 

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Hi apparently I'm great at parties.

Also Aengulic Pantheon lore is a horrible mess and needs fixing. I agree with Leo.

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On 3/9/2018 at 11:55 PM, Aeldrin said:

I don't see why you're opposed to a piece of lore that only fleshes out an Aengul and gives him actual use on the server, as opposed to letting him rot away.

 

 

 

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

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14 hours ago, fighting evil by moonlight said:

 

 

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

 

reeeee fjarriauga lore keeps calling ondnarch wyrvun

 

kms

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Thank you for submitting your piece! Expect a verdict in about 2 weeks.

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Unfortunately, this piece has been denied. While I appreciate the effort put into this piece, the team does not feel that it is a necessary rewrite. If you (the snelves) wish to write a magic for your group, you are free to do so, but that doesn't mean that Wyvrun is needed to be altered.

 

Topic moved to Denied Lore forum.

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