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[Completed] Yay or Nay to Ascended Magic?

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If you see someone being toxic you report it.

If you see someone powergaming you report it.

If you have doubts regarding magical rp you can ask for a MT/LT to oversee the roleplay.

 

Once we clarify that i would ask you all to focus on the magic itself, what are the reasonable and fix-able issues that you have with it? The magic is actually being reworked and that information could be really useful for both the players that use it and the ones that interact with it.

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My issue with Ascended is I don't see a reason for them being what they are/have been. 

From what I've always read and heard they existed to fight Iblees and his minions. Yet despite Iblees being gone the Ascended are still around and push for their magic to be a strong combative magic.

 

Personally I think Ascended (if they don't get shelved) should heavily tone down the fighting spells. When I hear "Caretaker of Souls" I don't think of someone crusading or going out and killing things. I picture healing, I picture guidance, calming, and aiding. Maybe some defensive shields or barriers of a sort. Be like the Aengul, be caretakers.

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6 minutes ago, Aelsioln said:

My issue with Ascended is I don't see a reason for them being what they are/have been. 

From what I've always read and heard they existed to fight Iblees and his minions. Yet despite Iblees being gone the Ascended are still around and push for their magic to be a strong combative magic.

 

Personally I think Ascended (if they don't get shelved) should heavily tone down the fighting spells. When I hear "Caretaker of Souls" I don't think of someone crusading or going out and killing things. I picture healing, I picture guidance, calming, and aiding. Maybe some defensive shields or barriers of a sort. Be like the Aengul, be caretakers.

 

The reasoning used in character these days is not that the Ascended fight Iblees, they fight what is called the ‘Legacy of Iblees’ which may be shorterned to just ‘The Legacy’. The idea being that the actions of the traitorous Daemon inspired copycat actions by other sources, I.E. the Daemon Asura who is prevalent in Paladin lore, or the surge in dark magic research by purely mortal means, like Necromancy.

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1 hour ago, EternalSaturn said:

 

A main 'clique' that a certain friend of yours was apart of and highly supported until it no longer served his needs for mineman power. These little posts you have been leaving around for the past few months have really made me laugh. We aren't toxic, we actually get along quite well and talk often. You and your friends wanted to use the magic for other purposes and make it something political, which has never been considered even when the Ascended were created in Aegis. Being an Ascended isn't about being political, Aeriel has a law against it, and you didn't like it when we called you all out for it. So unless you have an actual criticism instead of some petty remark about how you didn't get your way, you should go do something more productive with your time.

 

So what you’re saying is that its fine for you, Jallen and Dolinare to break tenets whenever it suits your needs(E.G, Hiring mercenaries and the undead to kill any Ascended who are not apart of the main order) But as soon as my friend got pushed into a political position he became the villain?

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1 minute ago, Arhbi said:

 

So what you’re saying is that its fine for you, Jallen and Dolinare to break tenets whenever it suits your needs(E.G, Hiring mercenaries and the undead to kill any Ascended who are not apart of the main order) But as soon as my friend got pushed into a political position he became the villain?

 

As it stands the tenets of Ascended clearly state that political positions need to be abandoned and not sought after. The line was toed for a very long time, but we were assured the currently held position as a lesser Prince was elected and I, personally, fought on that side of the argument and defended his acquisition of the position.

 

When new Ascended were being also recruited into the guard force, we knew a line was being crossed and dispatched an Ascended to inform them that this was going too far. The messenger was met with intimidation and nearly assault. At that point it was established that things had gone too far.

 

In Ascended culture a cycle of what ‘is’ and ‘is not’ natural known as the Soul Cycle  exists, and it’s a bit excessive but the general idea is that Mortals are born, their soul matures, they die and go to the Soulstream. Dark magic perverts the soul and disrupts this cycle by condemning them to Abrietas. The Ascended are enlisted to exist outside of this cycle, in a manner much similar to dark creatures, to prevent this perversion. In this, the mortal progression of the soul remains unblemished. An Ascended going rogue, by that logic, is therefore comparable to a dark creature; as their purpose has now been violated.

 

What happened was not spur of the moment. I defended the opposing sect for a very long time despite others telling me I should not. Chances were given. This was not, in any way, an OOC slight made against the opposition. 

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41 minutes ago, Aelsioln said:

My issue with Ascended is I don't see a reason for them being what they are/have been. 

From what I've always read and heard they existed to fight Iblees and his minions. Yet despite Iblees being gone the Ascended are still around and push for their magic to be a strong combative magic.

 

 Personally I think Ascended (if they don't get shelved) should heavily tone down the fighting spells. When I hear "Caretaker of Souls" I don't think of someone crusading or going out and killing things. I picture healing, I picture guidance, calming, and aiding. Maybe some defensive shields or barriers of a sort. Be like the Aengul, be caretakers.

 

This is right, every single person still roleplaying as ascended are breaking rules and have been breaking them for years.

 

To become ascended you were just a normal person who had their powers 'awoken' by the sudden invasion of Iblees and Undead (your arch enemies you had to fight) because of your aengul blood. Once Iblees and the Undead were then defeated at the end of aegis, every ascended was originally meant to 'descend' back into the normal person they were before the Undead threat.

 

But they didn't, because at the time the ascended players were friends with a lot of the mods and they were the type of people to cling onto power on a minecraft server. So because of those reasons they were allowed to carry on as they were while Undead were threatened with bans if they wanted to do the same as the ascended.

 

In my opinion, 7 years late is better than never.  They should never have been allowed to break the rules in the first place

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Just now, Hobbs_Burrows said:

 

This is right, every single person still roleplaying as ascended are breaking rules and have been breaking them for years.

 

To become ascended you were just a normal person who had their powers 'awoken' by the sudden invasion of Iblees and Undead (your arch enemies you had to fight) because of your aengul blood. Once Iblees and the Undead were then defeated at the end of aegis, every ascended was originally meant to 'descend' back into the normal person they were before the Undead threat.

 

But they didn't, because at the time the ascended players were friends with a lot of the mods and they were the type of people to cling onto power on a minecraft server. So because of those reasons they were allowed to carry on as they were while Undead were threatened with bans if they wanted to do the same as the ascended.

 

In my opinion, 7 years late is better than never.  They should never have been allowed to break the rules in the first place

 

We actually did lose all our powers until a rewrite happened in late Anthos, several years later. The Ascended who were mods at that time all left in the Haven event to my knowledge thought I might be wrong.

 

Even if all of this is true, is it worth punishing the playerbase that exists now because of the actions of a few 7 years ago? The sins of the father are not the sins of the son.

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6 minutes ago, Master Sage Delaselva said:

 

We actually did lose all our powers until a rewrite happened in late Anthos, several years later. The Ascended who were mods at that time all left in the Haven event to my knowledge thought I might be wrong.

 

 Even if all of this is true, is it worth punishing the playerbase that exists now because of the actions of a few 7 years ago? The sins of the father are not the sins of the son.

 

If you did things by the book until late Anthos (which I doubt) why did you all jump back into being Ascended when you knew it was wrong? If you want the magic then just write something new up and don't call it Ascended. But I suspect that many simply wanted the Ascended name so they could claim some kind of power and prestige from it. Which, from what I hear, is a big part of the current ascended problem.

 

If you want my advice, start something fresh. If I were to cling onto Undead like some of the ascended have done to their own group and characters, it would have all eventually gone sour. Learn to let what you love go

Edited by Hobbs_Burrows

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29 minutes ago, Arhbi said:

 

So what you’re saying is that its fine for you, Jallen and Dolinare to break tenets whenever it suits your needs(E.G, Hiring mercenaries and the undead to kill any Ascended who are not apart of the main order) But as soon as my friend got pushed into a political position he became the villain?

 

My character didn't hire anyone to do anything, I stayed well and far away from that entire situation and only interacted, really, in that one RP meeting that was held at the Cloud Temple. And your friend had broken many other tenets before this situation, this was just where we drew the line. 

 

That first sentence proves that some people are so misinformed and only know half of these stories and rumors they're spreading. So many people have left this server in the past few months for that very reason. It's very disheartening.

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1 minute ago, Hobbs_Burrows said:

 

If you did things by the book until late Anthos (which I doubt) why did you all jump back into being Ascended when you knew it was wrong? If you want the magic then just write something new up and don't call it Ascended. But I suspect that many simply wanted the Ascended name so they could claim some kind of power and prestige from it

 

I cant speak for why the Ascended returned at that time. The players responsible, that being 501warhead, Blundermore, Saira, LadyKakyuu, and JCQuiinn will have to speak for themselves. I joined afterward and had no part in that. But I will say I’m proud of our playerbase regardless of what name they go under.

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Facepalm GIF

 

I did not want to get into this but given by the level of bickering and the fact there's no middle ground, I'm grudgingly writing this.

 

Instead of arguing on who is right or wrong here and tearing at each others throats, we instead focus on the future. The Ascended lore is being rewritten and it will be up to the LT and MT to decide if said rewrite is to be passed. Every group has its bad eggs, there's no denying that. We all do the wrong actions, based on what we perceive as right. Yes, perhaps some members of the Ascended order can be idiotic at times, but from my view, their actions were relatively just compared to what another sect of Ascended were planning. I know Fid and his group are decent people and they wanted to try something new, but by the rules the Ascended follow in RP, what they wanted could not be achieved without facing disconnection. We can't always get what we want and even if we try, there are consequences that will need to be faced.

 

Also, if any person powergame or clearly does something wrong on the server and you see them doing it - it is your responsibility to alert the staff and raise the matter at hand. Don't just wait for a forum post like this to come so that you can post it on here. You wonder why the matter of powergaming, being overpowered, or whatever is rulebreaking is not getting resolved and is causing more issues - consider the fact that by not alerting the staff, that is exactly how a person gets away with that stuff. By  default, you are second-hand assisting that person in getting away with the rule breaking by allowing them to. So those not alerting the staff are just as responsible than the person actually breaking the rules.

 

Instead of just stating 'remove Ascended' like the staff will literally do it,  because at this rate - those who keep posting the topics and the status about it won't actually get it and are just making an idiot of themselves, how about we all focus on what we really need to focus on and let the Ascended do their own thing. Because at this point, something is being done, but just having these votes, status, and posts about removing isn't doing anyone any good and is only causing more drama than it is of solving it.

 

So let's all just take a deep breath and just move on from this. The past is in the past but learn from it, and let's focus ahead and ensure we don't mess around on anything else. I've had enough of this Ascended drama and I want to just get back to roleplaying with people, no more being gank-squadded, being talked about behind my back purely because of what Ascended group my character is a part of and who I OOCly associate myself with, and so on. IC targetting? That's fine, it's RP - Just have a proper good and interesting excuse for coming after my character. But OOC reasons and you using IC as a way to rub the salt into my apparent wounds? That's just being salt.

 

This is to both sides of this, not one or the other. Both of you.

Also: I didn't hold any direct involvement with whatever issues were going on and only wanted to just roleplay as my character, but with the constant drama between both sides - God help me so when the stress kicked in from that and the constant "we hate Ascended", "Vote yay or nay for Ascended magic" shittery stuff going around.

 

Farryn out!

 

Barack Obama Mic Drop GIF

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I think you're all childish and the magic needs a bit of cleaning up but is otherwise fine. The community isn't the magic, so that shouldn't be a part of the 'ascended magic' thread.

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Toss it, I play one and toss it.....

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15 minutes ago, The Redneck said:

Toss it, I play one and toss it.....

 

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The Ascended community represents everything wrong with LotC. The bickering on this thread goes to show how asshurt people get over mineman RP and OOC being involved with IC. Not taking any sides, but the fact that there are sides is indicative of the problem. Ascended should be shelved on the pure basis that their community has totally failed to be anything positive to the server. HOWEVER, even if this wasn't the case, Ascended should still definitely be shelved because the Lore also happens to be ****.

 

The entire premise of the Ascended is that they are against undead/tainted creatures. Their lore expressly states this, "When the last tainted creature lay dead, when the last fallen daemon is sealed away...(yada yada yada)....then we shall rest. Not a moment sooner." There were things to facilitate this when the Ascended were first introduced, namely Iblees. Now that we've essentially done away with a server antagonist and Undead are pretty much a nonexistent threat, Ascended are essentially pointless. How many Ascended even actively fight undead? This isn't necessarily their fault, there simply isn't enough to warrant the sheer number of Ascended we have. And even if there was, I'd make the argument that Ascended are bad for Roleplay because they inherently make some players the protagonist over others.

 

Now, for the **** parts of the lore not accounting for the premise. The idea of regeneration is disgusting and awful. It literally takes away from dynamic roleplay that can occur as a result of IC actions which lead to the consequence of an injury. Ascended merely heal whatever wound has happened, take the wound onto themselves, and then regenerate it. It is the antithesis of what dynamic Roleplay should be. Get rid of the regeneration now. Also the fact that the flame bullshit Ascended get negates curses and other such things, once more, messing with dynamic roleplay. Also note, this is literally written into their lore, "For this reason it is said that the Ascended as a whole grow stronger witch each matured member." Who could have possibly thought that was a good idea?

 

Ascended are also Immortal, which is ridiculous. Everyone on the server is practically immortal already with the disgusting way death is handled, but the Ascended get a literal get out of jail free card? They have no consequences to any of their actions. Also, Ascended are pretty much immune to poison (ik the rules regarding metabolism and strong potions, sitll BS). Why? Who ******* knows, just add that to the list of bullshit. Ascended are also immune to any corrupting Magics. Heaven forbid dynamic Roleplay occurs where a member of the Ascended is corrupted and the order has to deal with a moral dilemma of killing someone who literally had no choice in the matter or letting innocents suffer, or w/e else BS you want to say. Point is that it's another thing that kills dynamic Roleplay. Oh yeah, Ascended basically dissolve on death leaving behind only clothing. Nice to know that they get to keep their stuff on death too.

 

Soulfire is a **** ability. There, I said it. "It can't go through armor though!" Name a single armor that doesn't have chinks in it...Wait, you can't. It's either too OP when fighting someone that can't resist it, or it's useless when you find that one creature that somehow can. It needs to be changed or gotten rid of. Soulfire braziers are awful too. They 100% personify the idea that Ascended don't want to deal with anything that messes with their Roleplay as they can just ignore any taint or otherwise dark magic which wants to corrupt the place they're at. Hallowed Ground is an extension of this which takes it a step further and literally doesn't allow soul-altered creatures to enter. Basically means Ascended can't be fucked with by the people that would want to **** with them.

 

This was a rough general outline of the **** things being done with Ascended. Probably more tbh, I can't be arsed to look. I understand the Magic is being rewritten, but until it is rewritten, it should be shelved.

 

15 hours ago, Aladeen said:

Interesting, I'd like to see ascended at least get another chance at a proper change/nerf before it just gets shelved

There have been so many chances. Just because you weren't around to see them doesn't mean we need to wait for you specifically to see them get another chance and blow it off.

15 hours ago, Aladeen said:

I've only talked to Z3mos in the ascended community, He's been extremely polite to everyone i've seen him interact with. How many ascended players have you seen be toxic? I wont ask for names of course

Ignorant to assume toxicity manifests itself when having a normal conversation with someone. I've never Roleplayed with Z3mos and he's probably a nice guy, doesn't change the fact that literally almost every ascended cries and ******* about Roleplay and utilizes OOC to dodge the consequences of their IC actions. You'll see the toxicity come out whenever they start to not get their way, and that isn't inherently related to the fact that they're Ascended, but to the fact that most people who play Ascended are poor RPers who are far too attached to their mineman pixels.

15 hours ago, Aladeen said:

 I think in the right hands it could be a very good role play tool.

Except it has almost never proved to be a good role play tool since its creation?

15 hours ago, Aladeen said:

perhaps in a way that disables players from abusing it an acting how they've been with their power

Players who abuse it are powergamers and metagamers. They'll do the same thing if you rewrite it, the problem is the players, not necessarily the lore. Though the lore is awful too.

14 hours ago, Unwillingly said:

In fact, about a month ago one of my closest friends had done a few unsatisfactory things as a staff member involving a specific nation, and he was basically bullied into quitting the server by this nation. Yes he did make a few mistakes, though I personally believe that it can go to show how overly toxic people can be towards other people.

If someone does a consistently incompetent job as a staff member, they should be bullied out of the staff. Not off the server, but definitely off the staff. And don't try and twist this into a comment where I'm advocating harassment. If this person got called out for their character and was personally attacked on a consistent basis, then that's a problem. But people saying "You did a **** job" or "Get your **** together" isn't bullying, you except the criticism as a member of the staff.

14 hours ago, drfate786 said:

There are entire groups on this server dedicated to circlejerking magic between friends, they will literally make fun of people like you in their OOC clique chats over the smallest mistake with no forgiveness ever being given out which essentially blacklists you

I've said it time and time again, the problem isn't with cliques/circlejerking, ASSUMING it is done on the basis of consequence. If you are a bad Roleplayer, you SHOULDN'T be allowed to use a Magic. That's how it works. The problem with the Ascended clique is that they choose people based on their friends and who ERPs with them the best.

14 hours ago, drfate786 said:

They usually have personal issues in real life and take it out on members of the community because of their self inflated egos and inability to cope with their qualms in a positive social setting.

Again, that's like 90% of the server. The cliques have nothing to do with it.

5 hours ago, Suxals said:

If you see someone being toxic you report it.

If you see someone powergaming you report it.

If you have doubts regarding magical rp you can ask for a MT/LT to oversee the roleplay.

 

Once we clarify that i would ask you all to focus on the magic itself, what are the reasonable and fix-able issues that you have with it? The magic is actually being reworked and that information could be really useful for both the players that use it and the ones that interact with it.

Yeah because reporting powergaming and OOC toxicity goes so well? And this is Chon talking, the person who agrees with you and actively did this knowing full well it would cost me (we know what I'm talking about rofl). I agree, you have to report it, doesn't change the fact that the Magic is absolutely atrocious at the moment and needs to be shelved until reworked.

4 hours ago, Aelsioln said:

Yet despite Iblees being gone the Ascended are still around and push for their magic to be a strong combative magic.

 

Personally I think Ascended (if they don't get shelved) should heavily tone down the fighting spells. When I hear "Caretaker of Souls" I don't think of someone crusading or going out and killing things. I picture healing, I picture guidance, calming, and aiding. Maybe some defensive shields or barriers of a sort. Be like the Aengul, be caretakers.

I sort of agree with this but Ascended healing is absolutely atrocious at the moment.

3 hours ago, Master Sage Delaselva said:

We actually did lose all our powers until a rewrite happened in late Anthos, several years later.

Rewrite should have never happened tho...........

3 hours ago, Farryn said:

Every group has its bad eggs, there's no denying that.

Some groups more than others. Ascended has consistently had bad eggs.

 

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