[Completed][Completed] Holy Healing Is Bad

[Temp 2006]

1 minute ago, zaezae said:

What a complete load of perfectly reasonable ideas. 

 

I agree with almost everything there except I think over time someone should regain complete control of a limb again. But certain not a Piccolo levels of regeneration no.

Muscle memory, manual dexterity and strength in general takes time to train. Months for those actively making the attempts.

[zaezae 1097]

Just now, Temp said:

Muscle memory, manual dexterity and strength in general takes time to train. Months for those actively making the attempts.

Well I forgot to add in 'with time'. Like, if you regrow a hand I would imagine that it would feel very alien and clumsy for a long time. But eventually, I would figure that it would return to normal.

[Temp 2006]

Just now, zaezae said:

Well I forgot to add in 'with time'. Like, if you regrow a hand I would imagine that it would feel very alien and clumsy for a long time. But eventually, I would figure that it would return to normal.

Mmm, the lore would have to be paced over, if not rewritten, to address the extent of imperfect healing. A limb regrown with healing magic may be missing joints, could have improperly fused bone and other unwanted growths or deformities. It wouldn't be too far fetched to see a return that never lives up to the original with this in mind. 

[zaezae 1097]

7 minutes ago, Temp said:

Mmm, the lore would have to be paced over, if not rewritten, to address the extent of imperfect healing. A limb regrown with healing magic may be missing joints, could have improperly fused bone and other unwanted growths or deformities. It wouldn't be too far fetched to see a return that never lives up to the original with this in mind. 

Maybe for hurried and clumsy healing but I think with enough time and patience a dedicated healer could achieve very good results. I'm thinking daily appointments for two or three OOC weeks where the progress is slow. My dark elf had her hand removed when she was a child and I had her go to the same cleric every day for painful healing treatments that would heal very tiny amounts. But the fused joints and the like could actually give something for mundane doctors to address after the worst of the injury was healed with magic?

 

Also I don't like the idea of rewrites. Why not just address the problems directly in the lore that exists?

[AGiantPie 3169]

Daily reminder that alchemical healing isn't mundane either.

[MamaBearJade 2088]

Alright since a lot of Chun's arguments is /for/ keeping injuries, I shall put something in perspective.

 

My druid, when she was twelve, was tortured and mutilated horrendously. The player asked me if I would keep any injuries, I told him I wasnt sure. Some of the things left behind were a bit much even for me. Instead of keeping much of the maiming, I kept scars and reminders.

My voidal healer was maimed by a wolf and taken to the monks to be healed. The monks *failed* to heal her because I OOCly did not wish to lose the deformity.

 

My first cleric was shot in the back by the white rose. Instead of the monks or a cleric being able to heal it, she was left crippled for the rest of her life.

 

The issue is not "holy healing is PGing" the issue is we are listening to the player's request. If you want to have dismemberment of a player, ask them OOCly first if they would keep it. If they dont want to keep a certain injury, work with them. I play a torture fanatic, but I always ask my victims if they will keep the injury or some sort of scar as a reminder.

 

Holy magic fails. It is not perfect. We only heal what the players want us to heal OOCly.

If you think there is no drawback to healing, you are mistaken. Any well trained and well versed cleric roleplays drawbacks. I personally will put my cleric out of commision if its too hard. Others may get extremely fatigued or have to rely on more than one cleric to heal. If you see a cleric, any teir, Roleplay without any drawbacks for major wounds, then report them, simple as that. They are breaking lore.

 

Yes there are other ways to heal, and clerics are pushing towards avoiding insta heals nowadays. My cleric has severe hemophobia and will push for the injured person to seek help with a druid or a mundane healer before she would heal them, lest she risks fainting during the clerical healing session.

[D4NNA 282]

Enforcing strict rules on holy Healing causes the correspondent rules on how people should roleplay their injuries. Healing trough holy means is a grace to roleplay, in a way it is much like deus-ex machina (even tough it is backed up by lore). Of course, risks, consequences and failings of holy magic are to be expected, but seeing it as a bad thing or an escape for lousy roleplayers is the wrong way to look at it. 

Instead the roleplay that actually happens should be the matter of things. A priest who has devoted his whole life to his holy grace and never swayed from his lawful good alignment is the right way to do it. Hell, I wouldn't even mind if a nun simply snaps her fingers and some holy light replaces a broken bone.
With g.o.o.d roleplay come g.o.o.d deeds. Looking deeper into it, I think the problem lies in the whole tiermaxing crap that many people pull off.

tl|dr:
Remove tiers from holy magic, instead focus on alignments

[Gladuos 857]

I've had some time to sleep and recollect my thoughts, so here's a little more of my two cents. I'll admit that I was wrong about a few things in my initial comments throughout this thread. Also, I apologize for any aggressiveness towards people, including chon, regarding this. I was feeling very frustrated about what I felt was an injustice towards the RP I and many others regularly do.

 

The following are just my thoughts, and not directed at anyone. Holy healing magic is incapable of regenerating lost limbs or organs, I'll note. I know many people have been bringing this up, so I'll clear it for you. If someone loses a foot, or a hand, a cleric won't be able to grow it back. They might be able to reattach it if they bring it soon enough, but that's about it. The only thing available to players which regenerates lost organs like that is the regen potion, an alchemical method. The truth is that mundane doctoring and alchemy are able to replicate everything clericism does with enough time and preparation, if not some what more due to the aforementioned potion. Sure, you might not be able to fix curses, but a potion could certainly be written up and submitted to address such. Like a "break curse" potion. I'd even be willing for such, I'm all for letting there be methods of healing certain things without the necessity of holies.

 

I believe the only real difference in capabilities and limitations between mundane doctoring/alchemy and holy healing is that holy magic takes less time and preparation (like not needing extensive tools, materials, salves, potions, etc). This may seem unfair at a first glance, but let me explain my reasoning as to why I don't think it is. Anyone is able to make a "master alchemist/doctor" at any time. You can have one made in less than a day. As for mastering clericism? Six IRL months filled with progressing RP to acquire such. I believe that due to the large OOC barrier between being a regular character and learning the fullest extents of a holy healing magic is justification for letting it be some what better than mundane doctoring. People waste months and months of time RPing this, learning about how to cast the magic, using up one of their magic slots, often times researching anatomy. I feel like there's no reason their RP should be devalued by having their magic made worthless, all of those obstacles in the way only to be as useful as the alchemist someone made yesterday.

 

Clerics and other holies are a lot about being dedicated to healing, and medicine RP. If they're not allowed to be exceptional for it because people are afraid of ignoring consequences, I don't know what to say. It seems like the equivalent of saying a problem shouldn't be able to be fixed because putting in endless time and effort is worthless in the equation. This is their main shtick, let holies do what they're meant to do. Fact of the matter is you can ignore their healing, and their healing isn't particularly better than mundane/alchemical healing anyway. Yes, anyone can OOCly choose how effective holy healing is on their character.

[Cordial__ 230]

I don't know what the argument topics have turned to, so I'll respond to the original post:

 

Holy healing, as laid out by lore, has consequences. The point at which it doesn't is a result of people roleplaying the magic improperly; It is not the fault of what's written in lore. This, of course, could be prevented if it was all regulated properly by the LT. All that gets discussed is to change this, and to change that. But then what? The same people will continue to RP poorly, finding grey areas to use, or just straight up powergaming. The LT can screech for changes, but I can guarantee that a rewrite can go through, get passed, and then we'll be right back here, because only a handful of magic users improperly RP their magic. Weed out the bad players before hindering the ones who can do good for the representation of their magic.

 

I would like to add that a nerfing of Holy Magic Healing wouldn't increase the number or need of mundane healers and doctors. People decide to play those kinds of characters. And you can't predict that just hindering holy healing will increase the number of players interested and invested in mundane healing. At that point, it just sounds like you threw that point in, just for the sake of having a 'positive and productive outcome' as opposed to sounding like the LT want to nerf because they hear complaints.

 

[ChonGojDragonski 317]

I would like to note, I'm not against Holy Healing being used to heal certain injuries. I'm against the way it is implemented. Here are multiple quotes of me saying as much across the thread.

8 hours ago, ChonGojDragonski said:

I DON'T MIND MAGIC HEAL RP!

I'm not advocating for its removal necessarily. I and Flam, and everyone else who has agreed with us, is advocating for the fix of a shitty system.

12 hours ago, ChonGojDragonski said:

TL;DR, healing roleplay at the moment is absolutely horrid and needs a serious revamp. I'm not opposed to it in its entirety, but it needs to be strictly monitored, have no combat applications, and just in general toned down from all angles.

10 hours ago, ChonGojDragonski said:

I'd be willing to secede the point that certain kinds of Healing Roleplay could be utilized to heal things that couldn't otherwise, upon thinking about it I can see the different kinds of roleplay that can open up. The current system however needs to be reworked to better facilitate that however, as it's currently broken.

It was a long thread and I spent a lot of time defending limb removal and the idea that Magic shouldn't always bring back a limb, because it shouldn't. There should be risk involved and the process should be long and arduous.

 

4 hours ago, GildedDuke said:

You’re taking this out of context and nitpicking. I clearly implied healing as the narrative of my response, something which you seem to have ignored. I also find it interesting you didn’t respond to my reference of Holy Healing users in Haense collaborating without issue of roleplay being killed. I also haven’t seen you produce any evidence to back your claims, whereas I have produced evidence to back mine.

I honestly didn't realize that's what you were talking about because your entire analogy was based off of what happened in Haense and didn't mention Magical Healing Roleplay. Clearly you haven't been to the Dominion then, or have seen extended character arcs where people completely barely spend any time on something as major as being blinded or having a limb removed. Those should be major moments of development for the character, and far to often they're glanced over. Your anecdote about one place having mundane healing roleplay while Holy Healing Magic existed on the server really doesn't serve as evidence for anything, and there have been many people on this thread and others that complain about its suppression of other types of Healing RP. You're just assuming that everyone who has posted for the revamp of Healing Magic RP and has cited mundane healing suppression as a reason is being dishonest/wrong about their experiences. Not the case. I'm sure in this one instance, there was great RP, doesn't change the fact that I've seen RP opportunities stifled in other places.

4 hours ago, GildedDuke said:

Again, you’re exploiting context. I wasn’t talking about self regeneration in the particular quote you responded to. Rather, I was talking about healing magic being applied to someone else. Instead of actively responding to this, you scribbled over it and branded my response as something else entirely. I made an explaination into why Holy Healing isn’t God’s revelation and why it isn’t perfecto in every given situation. Learn how to debate.

Someone that managed to completely misunderstand the point I was making is telling me to learn how to debate. Right. I'll break it down then.

 

7 hours ago, GildedDuke said:

mundane healing prior to any attempt at applying healing roleplay, due to the fact healing magic takes time to conjure and apply. Situations where this doesn’t happen is once again a result of poor roleplay and powergaming

 

You're saying that Healing Magic takes time to conjure and apply, therefore mundane healing will be resorted too as the first option right? Which is why I SAID,

7 hours ago, ChonGojDragonski said:

An Ascended taking on the injury of someone else and regenerating it isn't powergaming though, it literally isn't. That's why we're advocating for changes. Neither are Clerics who channel whatever Angel they're associated with to speed up recovery to a ridiculous degree.

Fair enough, I could have articulates myself better, I thought you would have gotten what I meant from the overall things I was arguing for in the thread. Ascended Soul Meld bullshit doesn't really any time to conjure and apply. You sit there, do your emotes, maybe throw in a few beads of sweat and say it hurts, and then you're done. Actual healing roleplay requires the collection of herbs, getting someone who knows how to properly use the techniques, dealing with rehabilitation, having it affect you until you recover. Ascended soul mend to self regen takes away from every single one of those things. It literally is "God's relevation and perfect in every given situation." Do you understand now?

4 hours ago, GildedDuke said:

Ah, but you were in fact the one who brought up this argument. As cited below:

12 hours ago, ChonGojDragonski said:

TBH, everyone should PK on RP death but this is a different argument and people are way to attached to their mineman pixels to actually create quality dynamic roleplay, but at the very least roleplay out injuries properly.

Though I will give you the benefit of the doubt given as you did mention that this was a different argument.

Yes, I brought it up, and immediately proceeded to say it was a different argument and I shouldn't bring it up. Don't get me wrong, it was retarded to do on my part and I regret it now as it has taken away the focus from the actual arguments on the thread. W/e, we can discuss this later on a different thread.

4 hours ago, GildedDuke said:

Oh, I did read the responses, and you once again appear to have little to no justification into why you think this way, nor evidence to back your claims other than some steep hatred for healing. Ascended don’t regenerate like Deadpool or Wolverine for God’s sake. I made a point on how regeneration is a common occurrence in many kinds of magic

But they do mate, this is taken from the Ascended lore for gods sake.

https://i.imgur.com/d2NXUwy.png https://i.imgur.com/iAQAXkQ.png

If that isn't Deadpool/Wolverine healing IDK what is. Look at all the posts I and people on the Ascended Magic thread made to explain WHY Soul Mending in conjunction with regeneration is so bad. The tow by themselves could have worked, together they don't. Just because you don't want to read the justifications doesn't mean they aren't there.

2 hours ago, zaezae said:

Then, you know, actually propose actual changes instead of setting goal posts for everyone else and then whining when they don't meet the goal posts you meet while you endlessly declare axioms without any evidence just like every single person in this thread.

The thread was about whether or not Holy Healing is bad, it had nothing to do with making suggestions towards how to fix it. In my first post, every single one of my critiques were towards people defending Holy Healing and the way it is. It's not my fault people were unable to understand that. I didn't set the goal posts for everyone else, I responded to the OP's point of making the thread. When did I move the goal posts? Point it out. And OFC I'm going to declare axioms, every argument is based off of them. If you disagree with my argument, you argue the axioms. That's how debate works.

2 hours ago, zaezae said:

If you actually don't believe that people absolutely will use permanent injury to ruin the fun of other players for the sake of ruining their fun then you haven't paid attention. I'm not going to conduct some kind of study to meet your impossible standards. Don't use hyperbole. No healing is "instant" and getting healed is not avoiding consequences. You think healing is too fast. Just say that and then tell us how fast you think healing magic should be since you supposedly have nothing wrong with healing magic on principle. 

Maybe you RP with **** people mate, I've never had to deal with this and I've roleplayed with people that absolutely despise me. Until you cite examples of this happening to yourself or others, I'm not going to take your word for it. How is me wanting an example of people doing what you claim impossible standards? People on this thread have provided numerous examples of **** Holy Healing, it wasn't that impossible. And I'm not being hyperbolic. Two to three emotes of an Ascended soul mending someone's injury and saying it was difficult is akin to it being instant, and does avoid the actual consequences that come with a debilitating injury. Consequences such as rehabilitation, pain to your character, psychological trauma, etc. Yes I think healing is too fast, and in my original post arguing in the thread, I was referencing people that said Holy Healing is fine the way it is.

2 hours ago, zaezae said:

So I'll set my goalpost for you then. What exactly, in full explanation, should be the limits of any healing method? I think limbs should be able to be regrown after an OOC month or so over many sessions like how I experienced. I've never ever seen anyone just Piccolo out an arm from holy magic. Because if you think that there should be no recourse rp at all on a high fantasy server then I would ask who is asking who to bend over backward to fit their desires. 

Yes, setting your goalposts is the right word for it because this literally isn't the point of the thread we're on. I'd be MORE THAN HAPPY to suggest what I think should be done in regards to healing magic, make the thread and I'll do it. Although TBH,

1 hour ago, zaezae said:

What a complete load of perfectly reasonable ideas. 

 

I agree with almost everything there except I think over time someone should regain complete control of a limb again. But certainly not a Piccolo levels of regeneration no.

I agree and would have pretty much said the exact same thing as Temp. It's not my fault that you or anyone else here misconstrued my ideas or intent for arguing.

2 hours ago, ThatGuy_777 said:

Stop talking like you know how every RP instance will go down. What are you, a flippin' fortune teller? I take screenshots on the regular, to the point I have a good 7,000+ just sitting in my screenshot folder. You don't even necessarily need to take screenshots to ensure evidence, maybe just have somebody else there who can vouch too.

I'm sorry, but where in the quotes did I act as if I know where every RP instance will go down? Maybe I'm slow but I don't understand what you're referring too.

2 hours ago, ThatGuy_777 said:

As I mentioned in my post, sometimes situations that end up making you horrifically maimed are unavoidable. Maybe you're saving your kid, perhaps you're just standing in the wrong place at the wrong time and you hear something you shouldn't have, or sometimes people just choose to target you for solely OOC reasons. "Yeah boss, let's got screw this guy up in particular."  I'm getting tired of reading such accusatory replies from you dude when I've never even RP'ed with you, it comes off as pretty toxic

Look, if you're going to take me accusing your ideas of being bad as something personal on a debate thread, IDK what to tell you. I've debated with people before and been absolutely fine with them OOC and IRP. I've expressly avoided bringing in anyone's character into any of my arguments, can't say the same for some of the other people that have disagreed with me on this thread and how hostile people are getting. As for situations where you getting horifically maimed are unavoidable, what does that mean? Your character can choose what it does and what it doesn't. Yes, if you fight back against ten bandits, you will unavoidably be maimed. So don't do it? Losing a limb for saving your child sounds like some amazing RP and some quality character development, too bad we don't get that very uch do we.

1 hour ago, Time Lady of Kittens said:

Alright since a lot of Chun's arguments is /for/ keeping injuries

Really isn't. Even if Holy Healing was outright removed, regular healing or forms of limb replacement is made so people don't keep injuries, and I haven't argued against them. Lots of stuff to read through so I can understand your misunderstanding.

1 hour ago, Time Lady of Kittens said:

The issue is not "holy healing is PGing" the issue is we are listening to the player's request. If you want to have dismemberment of a player, ask them OOCly first if they would keep it. If they dont want to keep a certain injury, work with them. I play a torture fanatic, but I always ask my victims if they will keep the injury or some sort of scar as a reminder. 

 

Holy magic fails. It is not perfect. We only heal what the players want us to heal OOCly.

I'd rather have someone not go along with an attempt to injure them so I know that this is a person solely interested on developing their story the way they want to so I can avoid them in the future, versus someone who just takes the injury and gets it fixed in the most low effort way possible. Holy Healing provides a medium for the second thing.

1 hour ago, Time Lady of Kittens said:

If you think there is no drawback to healing, you are mistaken. Any well trained and well versed cleric roleplays drawbacks. I personally will put my cleric out of commision if its too hard. Others may get extremely fatigued or have to rely on more than one cleric to heal. If you see a cleric, any teir, Roleplay without any drawbacks for major wounds, then report them, simple as that. They are breaking lore.

Feeling tired after you regrow a limb isn't a drawback mate,and you avoided discussing Ascended who pretty much have no drawbacks. Name one drawback to the way Ascended heal, please do.

1 hour ago, Time Lady of Kittens said:

Yes there are other ways to heal, and clerics are pushing towards avoiding insta heals nowadays.

Yes but the current Lore provides ways to do this, it really does. This is a thread that is advocating for a rewrite and fixing these systems, IDK what else I can say.

17 minutes ago, Gladuos said:

I've had some time to sleep and recollect my thoughts, so here's a little more of my two cents. I'll admit that I was wrong about a few things in my initial comments throughout this thread. Also, I apologize for any aggressiveness towards people, including chon, regarding this. I was feeling very frustrated about what I felt was an injustice towards the RP I and many others regularly do.

Fair enough, no offense taken. I can come off as condescending IRL as well as over text, didn't mean anything by it. I appreciate this paragraph.

24 minutes ago, Gladuos said:

Holy healing magic is incapable of regenerating lost limbs or organs, I'll note. I know many people have been bringing this up, so I'll clear it for you. If someone loses a foot, or a hand, a cleric won't be able to grow it back. They might be able to reattach it if they bring it soon enough, but that's about it. The only thing available to players which regenerates lost organs like that is the regen potion, an alchemical method. The truth is that mundane doctoring and alchemy are able to replicate everything clericism does with enough time and preparation, if not some what more due to the aforementioned potion. Sure, you might not be able to fix curses, but a potion could certainly be written up and submitted to address such. Like a "break curse" potion. I'd even be willing for such, I'm all for letting there be methods of healing certain things without the necessity of holies.

Perhaps you could explain something to me, as it's very plausible I misunderstood.

 

Couldn't an Ascended take an injury, such as losing a limb, onto themselves, therefore heal the person?

 

Just want this clarified, as I know it explicitly states in Cleric redlines that they can't regenerate limbs/extremities.

27 minutes ago, Gladuos said:

This may seem unfair at a first glance, but let me explain my reasoning as to why I don't think it is. Anyone is able to make a "master alchemist/doctor" at any time. You can have one made in less than a day. As for mastering clericism? Six IRL months filled with progressing RP to acquire such. I believe that due to the large OOC barrier between being a regular character and learning the fullest extents of a holy healing magic is justification for letting it be some what better than mundane doctoring. People waste months and months of time RPing this, learning about how to cast the magic, using up one of their magic slots, often times researching anatomy. I feel like there's no reason their RP should be devalued by having their magic made worthless, all of those obstacles in the way only to be as useful as the alchemist someone made yesterday.

I personally have qualms in the way alchemy is utilized as well, though I think it's less prevalent of an issue. The way I see it, Holy Healing Magic should work really quickly for small injuries such as cuts, bruises, forms of fatigue, and other such things. And it should be a way to heal super diffiult things that couldn't be healed without the use of Magic. Medium things, such as broken bones, or muscle tears, etc, etc, should be tied between Holy Healing and Mundane Healing. This system would give Magic Healers some usefulness in an immediate sense regarding small and minor injuries, as well as vital in the long term sense for certain kinds of injuries. By making them equivalent to mundane healers when it comes to medium level injuries, you preserve mundane healing roleplay and prevent Holy Healing from being the save all be all to any kind of injury. It should be rare and awe inspiring when you see it, the current system doesn't fully provide for that. Just thought I'd state my opinion as to how it should be done to explain why I sort of disagree with you.

32 minutes ago, Gladuos said:

Clerics and other holies are primarily about being dedicated to healing, and medicine RP. If they're not allowed to be exceptional for it because people are afraid of ignoring consequences, I don't know what to say.

I see no reason as to why Clerics and other holies can't also learn medicine Roleplay, and provide both kinds for victims and prospective learners aside. What if Clerics also made a guild where they teach the basics of human anatomy, how to properly stitch a cut up, set a broken nose or something in battle, stop blood loss, etc. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive, and you can maintain their importance through the healing of injuries that are beyond the capability of simple mundane healing.

5 minutes ago, Cordial said:

Holy healing, as laid out by lore, has consequences. The point at which it doesn't is a result of people roleplaying the magic improperly; It is not the fault of what's written in lore.

Can you or anyone for that matter explain the consequences of an Ascended soul mending an injury from someone and then proceeding to regenerate it within a few OOC minutes?

6 minutes ago, Cordial said:

because only a handful of magic users improperly RP their magic

 

[Riftblade 849]

Just a quick note - Clerics need to understand the anatomy of Descendents in order to properly use their magic. If they don't understand the anatomy of various organs and bones, their magic won't really work from what I know.

[Cordial__ 230]

An Ascended doesn't regenerate large scale wounds within a few OOC minutes. That's not how I RP the magic, and that's not how it should be RP'ed. Instead of saying that that's how the magic is roleplayed on a general scale, perhaps give specific names? Since this post has already went from Holy Magic Healing as a whole to just nitpicking Ascended magic, you shouldn't mind giving screenshots or any actual proof. Ascended can take on fatal wounds, like decapitated arms, but doing that is a pk, as it is the Ascended that now has the fatal wound. They wouldn't regenerate themselves from bleeding out. 

[Riftblade 849]

2 minutes ago, _Lackless_ said:

I mean, not everyone rps it that way, or they just make it up and say they know how 

Which is an issue

[Gladuos 857]

12 minutes ago, ChonGojDragonski said:

Perhaps you could explain something to me, as it's very plausible I misunderstood.

 

Couldn't an Ascended take an injury, such as losing a limb, onto themselves, therefore heal the person?

 

Just want this clarified, as I know it explicitly states in Cleric redlines that they can't regenerate limbs/extremities. 

 

I don't believe there are any ways to regenerate entire missing organs or limbs without the use of resurrection from monks (not a player thing) or regeneration potions. I'm not an expert on Ascended, but I am a cleric. Clerics certainly cannot restore missing organs/limbs.

 

13 minutes ago, ChonGojDragonski said:

I personally have qualms in the way alchemy is utilized as well, though I think it's less prevalent of an issue. The way I see it, Holy Healing Magic should work really quickly for small injuries such as cuts, bruises, forms of fatigue, and other such things. And it should be a way to heal super diffiult things that couldn't be healed without the use of Magic. Medium things, such as broken bones, or muscle tears, etc, etc, should be tied between Holy Healing and Mundane Healing. This system would give Magic Healers some usefulness in an immediate sense regarding small and minor injuries, as well as vital in the long term sense for certain kinds of injuries. By making them equivalent to mundane healers when it comes to medium level injuries, you preserve mundane healing roleplay and prevent Holy Healing from being the save all be all to any kind of injury. It should be rare and awe inspiring when you see it, the current system doesn't fully provide for that. Just thought I'd state my opinion as to how it should be done to explain why I sort of disagree with you.

 

That's fair enough, but I stand by my opinion that if you put a lot more time and effort into practicing a magic dedicated to RP, you ought to be better for it in some way or another than a common mundane healer.

 

15 minutes ago, ChonGojDragonski said:

I see no reason as to why Clerics and other holies can't also learn medicine Roleplay, and provide both kinds for victims and prospective learners aside. What if Clerics also made a guild where they teach the basics of human anatomy, how to properly stitch a cut up, set a broken nose or something in battle, stop blood loss, etc. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive, and you can maintain their importance through the healing of injuries that are beyond the capability of simple mundane healing.

 

Clerics do actually do this, but the point isn't to be on par with alchemists but to be the healers on the server. That's what holies ought to be, and I think they should deserve it for all the months of RP and magic slot usage it takes to get there. Plus, some people really like the religious light magic style of healing things over gritty manual fixing things.

[ChonGojDragonski 317]

16 minutes ago, Cordial said:

An Ascended doesn't regenerate large scale wounds within a few OOC minutes. That's not how I RP the magic, and that's not how it should be RP'ed.

The lore states, as shown here,

IC days pass by in about half an hour to an hour of OOC time. This entire thread is made for discussing whether the lore should be rewritten/changed, and clearly it should be. Just because you might RP it "correctly" doesn't mean that others don't in their way because of how poorly the lore is written.

16 minutes ago, Cordial said:

Ascended can take on fatal wounds, like decapitated arms, but doing that is a pk, as it is the Ascended that now has the fatal wound. They wouldn't regenerate themselves from bleeding out. 

A decapitated hand/arm/limb isn't really fatal though, as long as the blood loss is stabilized. And again, the Ascended lore is so grey and uncertain regarding this matter, it doesn't matter how it's supposed to be Roleplayed, the lore still needs to be reworked to explain that.

7 minutes ago, Gladuos said:

I don't believe there are any ways to regenerate entire missing organs or limbs without the use of resurrection from monks (not a player thing) or regeneration potions. I'm not an expert on Ascended, but I am a cleric. Clerics certainly cannot restore missing organs/limbs.

Fair enough regarding Clerics, Ascended can however.

 

Edited May 18, 2018 by ChonGojDragonski