[Completed] Why holy healing is not a bad thing

[zaezae 1,091]

Being hit with something harder is more dangerous because a harder material will not yield as much as softer meaty fists and will result in more pressure. When you're talking about bludgeoning then all you need to worry about is pressure. I can use a truck to gently push you with far more force than a punch but it won't hurt you.

[Gilded 642]

6 minutes ago, MightyTom said:

Why are you guys talking about irrelevant golem arms and that of the such?

Just get your arm re-grown back in a jiffy good chap!

Did you not read my initial response to your previous regrow limb statement? Holy Healers can't regrow their patients limbs...

[MightyTom 66]

59 minutes ago, GildedDuke said:

Did you not read my initial response to your previous regrow limb statement? Holy Healers can't regrow their patients limbs...

I am going to get my legs  cut off irp and come to a healer asap-pronto so I no longer have to deal with the repercussions of being a paraplegic 

[Lark 2,080]

6 minutes ago, Snelfma said:

Honestly what I'm going for. I don't want magic to be nerf'ed unless it is op and I definitely do not like this core magic. We do have a lot of stuff in existing lore that can be fleshed out though. Not too sure what you mean by system though.

 

You really don't have to nerf anything actually. By system, I mean ruleset--for how roleplay combat would go down. I feel like people in the thread are getting caught up on how much force a runic arm does because everyone has their own interpretation. Perhaps we should stop comparing a fantasy runic arm's punch to a truck's punch and simply go for this: Any body modifications should be considered cosmetic unless explicity approved by LT, where it is public and everyone can see why and how.

 

 

[ChonGojDragonski 314]

I don't know why this thread was made when we had a thread detailing all the problems with Holy Magic already. But alright, w/e, we can do this song and dance again. First off, no one is saying that Holy Healing expressly is a bad thing. I'm not against Holy Healing in principle, but I am against the way it has been implemented; and this is the majority of people that have a problem with the current magic.

1 hour ago, Snelfma said:

Healing magic isn’t a bad thing in of itself to have in fantasy. Why? It’s fantasy you come for fantasy and not real world practices, even the more mundane healing has some sort of spin in fantasy that makes the ordinary become extraordinary. Not to mention most people don’t know their tibia from your fibula much less the nuances of medical practice, so ‘magic’ is often a good way to avoid accidentally becoming a doctor and still have some good writing to explain how injuries are dealt with.

Basic anatomy =/= Nuances of medical practice.

1 hour ago, Snelfma said:

  Now, onto the arguments lotc is presenting for the most part: healing magic takes away consequences and provides bad roleplay. For the most part I genuinely floored that these two arguments are being made when the more famous healers on the server are either a.) people actually working in the medical field writing as their knowledge allows in terms of magic or b.) people who don’t understand jack about anatomy but make it up for by making their magic have flair. I honestly do not know where the “bad rp” part comes in until you look at the person being healed and not the magic or magic users themselves, which is something all rp healers discuss in ooc. So you can rest well knowing that we too bemoan about how people come to us after making some stupid decision, demanded to be healed, and then go away without so much as a thank you. Not our fault other people refuse to acknowledge the consequences of their actions.

This post here goes to show how out of touch you are with the rest of the servers roleplay experience. We get it, you're a healer and you see everything through this lense. The fact remains that the sheer amount of bad Holy Healers and the amount of people that use Holy Healing as an excuse to avoid all consequences is ridiculous. If you see the guy who gravely insulted your honor just walking around the city streets after you cut his sword arm off, how is your character supposed to react? This is fundamentally bad roleplay, and I don't understand how anyone can say it isn't. And even if you guys aren't intentionally taking away consequences, it doesn't change the fact that Holy Healing does.

1 hour ago, Snelfma said:

However, I do think healing magic could be changed so it provides rp, but not by nerfing it all.

The Holy Healer doesn't want their Magic nerfed. Right. You make the argument that Holy Healing is important so people can do healing without having to know too much about being a doctor, but then proceed to ask for Holy Healing to be much power powerful than a simple doctor. Sorry but it seems like there are some contradictions here.

1 hour ago, Snelfma said:

I actually believe that the cap for what can be healed (regenerating limbs, restoring blindness, or injuries that cannot all be healed at once by a tier 5) needs to be removed and replaced with the stipulation that the injury can be healed in three-five sessions depending on the amount that needs to be healed AND all the sessions need to be conducted with the same healer. This means that that person who desires to be healed must form a relationship with the healer, which in my mind would be far more interesting in terms of handling egregious wounds and healing rp in general. As for the lesser injuries, I actually enjoy the idea of the person being healed having to pray with the healer and/or not deny aenguls or the specific aengul of the healer.

Except we already addressed this in the previous healing thread, and you just ignored it. How in gods name are we going to monitor a system like this? It's impossible, and entirely arbitrary. I wouldn't be fully against a suggestion like this if it wasn't for the fact that it'd be impossible to implement it properly.

1 hour ago, Snelfma said:

So! A town gets raided by the likes of Oren. The raiders decide they are going to cut off everyone's right hand just because they can. Is it stupid that a populace that gets ganked will suddenly get ganked by a group that will always have the larger number by sheer virtue of people preferring to start off with human characters? 

That sounds like amazing Roleplay. Shame it'd be ruined by Holy Healing regrowing **** tbh.

45 minutes ago, GildedDuke said:

One does not simply regrow their limbs though through Holy Magic. For example, Ascended can't heal the stump of someone's arm, and regardless if we did when it's in an early stage, we would simply transmat a mortal wound which would easily kill us. Losing a limb is both a traumatising and painful experience, coupled with extensive blood-loss and sensitivity. Something often misinterpreted is that Holy Magic can heal even the most extensive wounds. It can't, it has limits and ultimately there are things which healing cannot undo.

Except the current lore does nothing to properly express these limitations besides a few minor lines. I've seen Ascended replace hands, fingers, eyes, ears, even some limbs. Rework the Lore to be clearer and less able to be powergamed, and we won't have a problem with it; but at the moment it's in horrible shape.

43 minutes ago, Snelfma said:

Still, the argument you're using would mean the runed limbs are just avoiding consequences. I'll use another example then, with the same rp (finding someone+using whatever heal thingy they bear) is a regeneration potion avoiding consequences? Yes, you do have to kill someone for it, but you also have to find a holy mage to heal you for the sessions I recommended.

Alchemy is also avoiding the consequences, yes. Replace a limb, don't just grow it back like nothing happened.

 

TL;DR: No one is necessarily arguing against Holy Healing, just the horrid way it's implemented atm. You want to fix Holy Healing? Remove all combat applications, and limit its overall power by SPECIFIC redlines and guidelines in the actual Lore.

 

 

[Jentos 495]

1 hour ago, Medvekoma said:

 

Maybe the town should consider submitting to the raider demands instead of hard-shouldering the raids, getting slaughtered and trying to dampen the consequences with magic / monks / raid rules.

What if these raiders are just throwing meme rp and just come back after being killed 

[Riftblade 110]

The players who have the mentality of "My limb/organ will be brought back" should be looked at. You can't just blame holy magic for this.

[MightyTom 66]

1 hour ago, Jentos said:

What if these raiders are just throwing meme rp and just come back after being killed 

Fresh,still on that.

 

 

1 hour ago, Riftblade said:

The players who have the mentality of "My limb/organ will be brought back" should be looked at. You can't just blame holy magic for this.

Yeah no,people don't change stop the growing back limbs and organs and all that hoo-bla and those people wouldn't have those mentality's. 

Edited May 28, 2018 by MightyTom

[Snelfma 265]

29 minutes ago, ChonGojDragonski said:

I don't know why this thread was made when we had a thread detailing all the problems with Holy Magic already. But alright, w/e, we can do this song and dance again. First off, no one is saying that Holy Healing expressly is a bad thing. I'm not against Holy Healing in principle, but I am against the way it has been implemented; and this is the majority of people that have a problem with the current magic.

This isn't a thread about the problems with holy magic. This is a thread about how it isn't a bad thing and highlighting a few ways to make rp more interesting rather than just nerf'ing the magic.

 

29 minutes ago, ChonGojDragonski said:

Basic anatomy =/= Nuances of medical practice.

The fact that you made this statement shows how little you know. Most of the medical rp I see on the server should result in the patient dying either from the wound being something that should have just killed you in minutes or from the actual 'healing' resulting in their death. People are great at applying bandages though!

 

29 minutes ago, ChonGojDragonski said:

This post here goes to show how out of touch you are with the rest of the servers roleplay experience. We get it, you're a healer and you see everything through this lense. The fact remains that the sheer amount of bad Holy Healers and the amount of people that use Holy Healing as an excuse to avoid all consequences is ridiculous. If you see the guy who gravely insulted your honor just walking around the city streets after you cut his sword arm off, how is your character supposed to react? This is fundamentally bad roleplay, and I don't understand how anyone can say it isn't. And even if you guys aren't intentionally taking away consequences, it doesn't change the fact that Holy Healing does.

Name me three bad holy healers. Name me three occasions where someone did something stupid while voicing "I'll just be healed". And if you see your enemy walking around the streets with his arm back? I don't see how this is the magic's problem, sounds like you will just have to deal with the consequences. I do not see why magic needs to be nerf'ed because of poor rp, you could literally use this same argument for the healing aspect of alchemy.

 

29 minutes ago, ChonGojDragonski said:

The Holy Healer doesn't want their Magic nerfed. Right. You make the argument that Holy Healing is important so people can do healing without having to know too much about being a doctor, but then proceed to ask for Holy Healing to be much power powerful than a simple doctor. Sorry but it seems like there are some contradictions here.

Uhm... Contradictions where? I do not see how my pointing out that people are so pitifully ignorant on thing medical that it is unfair to make them learn things that would require a legitimate education and also saying that it would be more interesting rp if done in sessions. 

 

29 minutes ago, ChonGojDragonski said:

Except we already addressed this in the previous healing thread, and you just ignored it. How in gods name are we going to monitor a system like this? It's impossible, and entirely arbitrary. I wouldn't be fully against a suggestion like this if it wasn't for the fact that it'd be impossible to implement it properly

Why are we trying to 'fix' a magic when it is people who don't like rp'ing consequences that are the problem? You're right, it is about enforceable as making people not deal with an injury, but atleast my idea gives way for more dynamic rp.

29 minutes ago, ChonGojDragonski said:

That sounds like amazing Roleplay. Shame it'd be ruined by Holy Healing regrowing **** tbh.

Five minute click fest. Then another five minutes of hacking everyone hands off. Then! A few days worth of multiple clerics, paladins, or ascended trying to regrow these limbs. You're right, it does sound like amazing rp!

 

29 minutes ago, ChonGojDragonski said:

Except the current lore does nothing to properly express these limitations besides a few minor lines. I've seen Ascended replace hands, fingers, eyes, ears, even some limbs. Rework the Lore to be clearer and less able to be powergamed, and we won't have a problem with it; but at the moment it's in horrible shape.

I agree that things need to be clarified, but I do not think a nerf is needed

29 minutes ago, ChonGojDragonski said:

Alchemy is also avoiding the consequences, yes. Replace a limb, don't just grow it back like nothing happened.

I really do not think you understand what fixing a problem is. You know that consequences entail such right? Just because someone figures out a way around something doesn't it mean it is just avoiding consequences, bs'ing and saying the monks fixed it is avoiding consequences or even just logging out before it happens.

29 minutes ago, ChonGojDragonski said:

TL;DR: No one is necessarily arguing against Holy Healing, just the horrid way it's implemented atm. You want to fix Holy Healing? Remove all combat applications, and limit its overall power by SPECIFIC redlines and guidelines in the actual Lore.

I do not think healing healing magic by it's very definition has combat applications. Also, there are red lines. Perhaps take a look at all the redlines within lore and guides.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Snelfma

[Archipelego 638]

i would like to calmly remind all of you that this is a minecraft server and really doesn't matter too much

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Jentos 495]

12 minutes ago, MightyTom said:

Fresh,still on that.

I'm a salty boy. 

I just find Medvekoma's stuff repetitive, and somewhat retarded. 

Like what the hell, give up immediately because a bunch of bandits are coming around?

Nothing against you, just my imperfect opinion

[Aeldrin 4,213]

1 hour ago, Snelfma said:

So! A town gets raided by the likes of Oren. The raiders decide they are going to cut off everyone's right hand just because they can. Is it stupid that a populace that gets ganked will suddenly get ganked by a group that will always have the larger number by sheer virtue of people preferring to start off with human characters?

 

1 hour ago, Medvekoma said:

 

Maybe the town should consider submitting to the raider demands instead of hard-shouldering the raids, getting slaughtered and trying to dampen the consequences with magic / monks / raid rules.

[JoelTheGinger 1,559]

Since we had a thread on this topic already, I believe that this thread really just could have been a lengthy reply to the post that Caleb made. I believe that perhaps its time to address several other topics, like re-purposing the various core holy orders so that they're more relevant, the issue with "I don't feel like dealing with magic because I know I won't win, lets PVP", and various other issues that need a greater spotlight put on them. I don't want this thread to devolve into yet another "I just don't like holy magic/magic in general, get rid of it" thread, because we have enough of those.

 

Tl;dr - I'm not saying this thread isn't needed, but since we have a big one already that was commented on 100+ times, I believe we can move on to other topics.

[MightyTom 66]

1 hour ago, Jentos said:

I'm a salty boy. 

I just find Medvekoma's stuff repetitive, and somewhat retarded. 

Like what the hell, give up immediately because a bunch of bandits are coming around?

Nothing against you, just my imperfect opinion

Yeah I know what he says is too practical,straightforward and comes from a legitimate line of thinking.

 

Edited May 28, 2018 by MightyTom

[jyecarson 119]

22 minutes ago, EternalSaturn said:

 "I don't feel like dealing with magic because I know I won't win, lets PVP",

Yes, can we please focus on this issue? I hardly see it talked about.