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[✗] Necromancy: Rewrite and Magic Guide


Geo
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On the topic of Wraiths it mentions Lichs are able to become Wraiths.  Does this extend to all Lichtypes, Darkstalkers included, or just Lichs in particular?

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2 hours ago, draja said:

 

Can you add onto your redlines here how many emotes it should take? Some can perceive this as a one emote thing, others four to five. 

 

Abyssforging: 

 

 

This section has me a bit wary, geo. I understand this is somewhat a counter to darkstalker’s not being able to wear plate but this feels wholly too powerful for a single dude to wield. It’s more of the healing part I have an issue with-

 

 

What does this refer to? As in, a cleric or an ascended can’t just heal it the way they usually do? What’s the greater force that’s capable? You say greater healing methods can- examples? 

 

All in all for Abyssforging the ritual isn’t complicated. It’s not hard to run down to the road and find a new player running to the dominion for RP and halt him from your base right next to one of the most used roads. I can see darkstalkers sitting around with this weapon basically making themselves immune, due to if they land a successful hit, their opponent is screwed.

 

& after reading this fully those are the only two problems I can point out. Nice job.

 

There is an emote count for every ability listed in the meat of the spell itself, there are different emote requirements for both raising a corpse by touch, or verbally, and further deviated depending on tier.

The Astral Wounds not being able to be healed by healing magic was a typo, I forgot to change it in the spell after editing the redline.  Healing magic can heal these wounds.

These swords are nothing new, they are a concept that have always been around since the incarnation of Darkstalkers; that they always had these special blades but they had some form of horrid taint on it.  We've moved away from the old concept of taint entirely because it was poorly done, so this is the difference. 

 

Liches are not any more slaves than they were before.  If you play a Lich you have all the freedom in the world to go off alone and be free, however the concept of phylacteries is broken beyond belief and can't really work, because people are never NOT going to hide their phylacteries in the most secretive place there ever was; thus defeating their purpose.  This change is twofold, to better express that Necromancers are the Masters of the Dead, and so that Lichtype players (And ghouls aswell) cannot run rampant harassing people with terrible bandit tier roleplay over and over again with no repercussion.  

 

With Wraithdom, you have two paths to becoming one: Strength of the Abyss, or Necromancer.  You can only use SoTA as a Resonant Knight, and that's the only way through that path.  Likewise, Darkstalkers cannot be necromancers, so they cannot take the necromancy path.

Edited by Geo
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9 hours ago, Smaw said:

My only concern again is the large number of variations I can see within this, and the idea that the Black Nexus cannot be destroyed.

The Black Nexus was never meant to be some dark magic holy grail for holy mages to target.  It has always been means to moderate the magic, lest we get another iteration of the Nexus essentially removed from roleplay and a group of players who sole job it was to destroy necromancy by spreading it and its creatures to new players for the purpose of lackluster bandit roleplay.

 

3 hours ago, draja said:

What does this refer to? As in, a cleric or an ascended can’t just heal it the way they usually do? What’s the greater force that’s capable? You say greater healing methods can- examples? 

 

The wound will heal physically but it'll have a scar that will hurt as if it's still wounded until it is healed, iirc.  The scar can be healed by holy magic.  I would have preferred the term "living scar" since it better characterizes it.

 

2 hours ago, Gladuos said:

I don't like that the slavery of liches is kinda more enforced with this lore. No phylacteries and necromancers can easily just PK them? Personally, I prefer it when liches have total free will and are moreso the epitome of necromancers, ones that have transcended mortality through wicked means. They are meant to be the masters in every other medium and I can't help but feel the concept is cheated here.

 

Also it looks like the same huge number of constructs are still present here, not answering the LT's issues just because you "feel" like it. Not only that, but you've added more constructs by giving them access to wraithdom. Oy vey.

 

3 hours ago, Fury_Fire said:

Better than being range-pk'd at a moments notice with 0 chance tbh

 

Phylacteries were being stored in Echests and at bedrock level locked chests that were impossible to get to.   The other problem was that Liches promoted a creature that was supposed to be a high risk high reward type playstyle being shifted into a no risk all the reward; new Liches were the only ones shoehorned into being slaves.  The number of players who will have access to sacraments will be very low, and only Necromancers who know the sacrament can use the specialized life-drain.  This was more so done to moderate the issue of spastic darkstalkers and liches who'd suicide at city gates, rather than hunt down rogue Lichtypes.

 

Also Wraithdom already exists, this is simply allowing for the creature to be shared between Necromancers and SotA under the exact same predicament.  There is still only allowed to be four wraiths under a single wraithlord, and four wraithlords in total.

 

2 hours ago, ForeverGinger said:

On the topic of Wraiths it mentions Lichs are able to become Wraiths.  Does this extend to all Lichtypes, Darkstalkers included, or just Lichs in particular?

 

Only Liches who have mastered all the Necromancy spells (not including sacraments).

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Doesn't answer the problem that necromancy is just being given more creatures instead of less, as asked by the lore team. Also doesn't really answer how I feel liches shouldn't be slaves whatsoever. If you want an endgame for necromancy, make them it instead of giving them wraiths.

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8 minutes ago, Gladuos said:

Doesn't answer the problem that necromancy is just being given more creatures instead of less, as asked by the lore team. Also doesn't really answer how I feel liches shouldn't be slaves whatsoever. If you want an endgame for necromancy, make them it instead of giving them wraiths.

 

Deathknights and Gravecallers have been removed.  Wraiths are not being added, they are being shared. Thats -2, +0.

 

 Wraiths are also not an "end game" because they are limited.  They are an alternative and have their drawbacks to Liches.  Even in SotA they are not an endgame, they are a choice.  For all intents and purposes, they are still a Strength of the Abyss creature.  It does not make sense for someone who wishes to become a wraith to drop their necromancy for three months to become one, however.  

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Last time I checked whether or not something was limited wasn't the determiner for if it was an endgame. It most certainly is. Also, deathknights and gravecallers were just more advanced darkstalkers and liches. Which weren't removed.

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5 minutes ago, Gladuos said:

Last time I checked whether or not something was limited wasn't the determiner for if it was an endgame. It most certainly is. Also, deathknights and gravecallers were just more advanced darkstalkers and liches. Which weren't removed.

 A darkstalker doesnt just become a deathknight given time, this isnt pokemon they dont evolve. Their is a ritual, they are made, or are you suggesting to get rid of both liches and darkstalkers. staples of necromancy.

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The essence of Necromancy is perverse, raising the dead as rotting husks of their former selves is pretty dark.  A lot of characters that fall onto the path of necromancy sooner or later develop some level of power complex, it's a biproduct of being able to reanimate corpses to do your bidding.  Now raising people as a Lich has never made for pure freedom, once they were literally slaves, then had the threat of phylacteries looming over them, and now the threat of the people who brought them back to life possibly sending them back to the grave.  That is necromancy, it's not pretty, it's dark.  I'm sorry if you feel differently, but that is subjective to how many of the rest of us feel.

The advanced lichtypes were barely their own creatures at all, basically their base forms with necromancy and an alarm on their phylactery.  Now there are Ghouls, Mage Liches, Warrior Liches.  (Lich/Darkstalker respectively) Necromancy is a magic literally themed about raising the dead and bringing monsters back to life, so we feel like if any magic should be able to create undead constructs it should be us; especially considering Liches are the oldest and first undead creature on the server.  We're not budging on that.  We want these three types of creatures, with very specific and controlled ways of creating and removing them, so that there can be a relatively sane number of them, all incentivised to act decently to their fellow RPer and actually provide good roleplay to others, or else maybe get the axe.

 

On another note, there is no specific endgame for a necromancer, nothing is garunteed or certain, and it doesn't have to be.

Edited by Geo
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Just pointing out that you're ignoring the lore team's requests for what you feel is better, which they say will result in shelving multiple creatures. Hope you just understand and accept that. Also liches have been slaves here on LotC all along, but I'm just pointing out that I don't like it. You don't have to take that part seriously, but honestly liches deserve better conceptually.
 

1 hour ago, HurferDurfer1 said:

 A darkstalker doesnt just become a deathknight given time, this isnt pokemon they dont evolve. Their is a ritual, they are made, or are you suggesting to get rid of both liches and darkstalkers. staples of necromancy.

Nah I wasn't, just pointing out that that didn't count as separate creatures very much and thus doesn't count as "removing" anything.

EDIT: Also there's more than the three creatures here. There are wraiths, which you can say doesn't count as being part of necromancy... But it does if you include it here as something attainable via it.

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23 hours ago, Geo said:

Life force is the energy that flows through all things natural and living mana

 

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1 minute ago, Benbo (Wretched) said:

 

Kill me

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Seems like more of the same, I think I'd rather have Zarsies rewrite because it brings what I feel is a more unique and ambitious approach to the magic. 

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Necromancy and Undead are stagnant without Iblees. Every magic comes from a higher power but Iblees has not been heard of for many maps, undeath has been lacking. Shamanism in itself is quite a chaotic belief/magic but Undeath as a magic should ultimately be the most extreme case of Daemon magic.

 

Shamanism - Daemon Apohet

Druidism - Aengulic Aspects

Ascended - Arch-Aengul Aerial

Undead - Arch-Daemon Iblees?

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21 minutes ago, Humanistic said:

Necromancy and Undead are stagnant without Iblees. Every magic comes from a higher power but Iblees has not been heard of for many maps, undeath has been lacking. Shamanism in itself is quite a chaotic belief/magic but Undeath as a magic should ultimately be the most extreme case of Daemon magic.

 

Shamanism - Daemon Apohet

Druidism - Aengulic Aspects

Ascended - Arch-Aengul Aerial

Undead - Arch-Daemon Iblees?

 

gods do not make magics good, please do not push this false narrative.

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This looks like a lot, like really a lot. It looks nice but it seems like it adds Soul Puppetry into the mix (Some of the Curses pointed out are almost the exact same thing from the Lore itself), combining it with Necromancy makes it look like a subtype magic of Necromancy. I don't care and Puppetry is gone afterall, but I just wanted to point that out because that's a bunch of magic to work with.

Edited by The Fact Core
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