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[✗] Iylderi; Guardians of the Veil


Thomas
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I cannot and never will support endgames with any caps in any form or inherent major empowerment. Archons didnt work before, Neither did the Ithaeral, Sage magic, Keepers, etc. Fat -1 from me, and always will be.

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3 hours ago, ZachoSnacko said:

I cannot and never will support endgames with any caps in any form or inherent major empowerment. Archons didnt work before, Neither did the Ithaeral, Sage magic, Keepers, etc. Fat -1 from me, and always will be.

 

I support end games because at the end of the day, everyone shouldn't be the same level of power as one another. It's stupid and make character growth pointless if any schmuck who gets an MA can be as strong as someone who's practiced for years longer than them in an IRL setting. Unfortunately, there is no attempts at tackling the fact everyone is the same character on the server, so end games at least offer those who are dedicated the opportunity to prove it. Besides, most people who receive the end games usually don't run around magically nuking anything. The rules of the server don't actually allow any consequences to occur.

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10 minutes ago, Dromui said:

 

I support end games because at the end of the day, everyone shouldn't be the same level of power as one another. It's stupid and make character growth pointless if any schmuck who gets an MA can be as strong as someone who's practiced for years longer than them in an IRL setting. Unfortunately, there is no attempts at tackling the fact everyone is the same character on the server, so end games at least offer those who are dedicated the opportunity to prove it. Besides, most people who receive the end games usually don't run around magically nuking anything. The rules of the server don't actually allow any consequences to occur.

Yes this is true, there is a weird gap where a starter 5 month t5 mage and a 5 year t5 mage are the 'same power', but this is by no means the way to go about fixing this. This lore exactly has been shelved because of many things im sure. Why has keeper, ith, sage magic, and archon all been shelved and what do they have in common? They all have circle-jerk capacity, and they are all endgame. They have no fair play to get the end game because it is moderated by one friend group, not by some neutral being who gives power fairly. There are by far, well more practiced mages than some of the previous archons, but did they have even a single chance at getting the higher power? No, because it was moderated by the same 6 people over and over again, and by accepting this you simply just let it continue.

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I like parts of this lore, tahmas. Over all a good submission!

 

Some bits left things looking a bit detached from a common theme, such as the garden bit and it's passive interaction with Voidal abundance. I think those two things should clash opposed to working seamlessly. Just a tiny nitpick tho.

 

I like the drawbacks from the Scar and it's growth with death. The aesthetics are moistening as well.

 

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8 hours ago, _Lackless_ said:

+1

 

troll

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1 hour ago, ZachoSnacko said:

I cannot and never will support endgames with any caps in any form or inherent major empowerment. Archons didnt work before, Neither did the Ithaeral, Sage magic, Keepers, etc. Fat -1 from me, and always will be.

That's fair enough. I'm completely open to making changes wherever people wish to see them. Feedback is a vital part of making a Lore Submission that everyone can enjoy. I am not against raising, or even removing the cap on the Iylderi, though I kept it the way it was for now due to the conversation I had with the LT when I was first set to rewriting it. We wanted to give some kind of Voidal Creature a purpose and let them act more as shepherds instead of splitting apart and distancing themselves. I got into a brief conversation with another player today about possibly working on some form of Ritual that any Mage could undergo once they meet a set of requirements, and based on a series or rolls or factors they could become somewhat of a pseudo Guardian. They'd perhaps be slightly weaker or less capable in their abilities, and would be looked down upon by 'pure' Iylderi, but it would open up a way for Mages to 'ascend' to a higher level without the use of another Guardian. That way it would limit and hopefully negate, to a sufficient degree, the potential clique mentality a hard cap would place upon the lore.

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It's not enough that mages can have five tier 5 magics?

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Okay, here we go.

You’ve got some ideas here that work. You’ve got a lot of ideas here that do not work. At all. They’re dumb, no offense.

 

Positives

I like the idea of this cult-like organization that venerates the Void and seeks to spread its influence in the world. That has some great potential – really, it’s actually ******* cool, kudos to you for that concept, it’s fun to work off of and has some real potential for RP.

You got some cool fluff pieces – void gardens, the body being altered by the void on a fundamental level (which isn’t new at all, but it’s always been a cool idea, at least aesthetically), it’s, again, cool.

Your post is well-written, bravo. If I could give you a sticker for it, I’d give it to you. HOWEVER, I don’t fall under the popular server attitude of “if it looks pretty, it must be good”. I like to look at the core, the meat, the substance. And that’s where the problems come in.

 

Negatives

Oh my god.

Endgames are bad. We’ll expand on that in the end, but I’m gonna leave that here because it’s quite important. It’s possibly the most important thing I’m going to bring up here, but I’m going to dive into that last. Just keep it in mind.

“There may only be ten Guardians at time” – I see where you’re coming from. I really do – you’re trying to restrict it so that it doesn’t grow too widespread as both a power limiting measure and a measure to keep it from becoming so widespread that it’s downright annoying and detrimental to everyone’s experience. It’s completely understandable; however, there’s a big hiccup here. This opens up the very, very, very plausible and very likely event of this creature group being a sort of…

Well, Thomas, I don’t mean offense to your or anyone you associate with, but it opens up the possibility of these guys being “Thomas and his OOC mage friends get special powers”. Again, I don’t mean offense, but it just seems like it’s set up and easily made into (by any clique whatsoever that has 10 void mage players present) this “me and my friends get special powers, yippee” kind of thing. It’s a little hard to articulate without sounding more rude. It seems abusable, basically. Any creature group that happens to consist of players that are friends with one another can already restrict access from people outside their circle, I know, but this just seems like actual lore-justified reinforcement of the act of doing so. Again, no offense to you. Just seems abuseable, is all.

 

Now to get to the meat.

This is endgame lore. Endgame lore is bad, because LotC is not a vidya RPG, and it’s not a TTRPG, it’s a combined roleplaying experience. The goal is not, and should be, to “achieve endgame” – sure, your character probably wants to do something like that. Everyone seeks to master their trade, their skills – but endgame creature lore has always felt like a step further, because it is a step further. It provides a predominately OUT-OF-CHARACTER goal for a certain type of character. It feels game-y. If it feels game-y in this sort of roleplaying environment, it is not good. This is not WoW, this is not Pathfinder, this is not Elder Scrolls, this is not DnD. This is a combined roleplaying experience with the goal of simulating a fantasy world through combined roleplay elements. It’s theatre, really.

And why do I call this an endgame? It’s a buff. Regardless of what flaws they possess, the Iylderi are a buff to powerful void mages who qualify and have the connections to achieve such status. There would be no need for a player limit if they were not a buff. These guys, like Archons, are a form of “leveling up” that isn’t organic – it’s not characters becoming naturally better at their trade as time passes and they actively hone their skills with it out of IC motivation, it is this boring endgame nonsense.

Hell, that’s what it boils down to, anyway. It’s boring. Even though it’s a sort of “support class” (if you want to call it that, but it’s so game-y that it makes me nauseous), it’s still “my character is a badass special creature now, and now he has a big glowing weak spot scar, what a great flaw!”

Good characters are made good by their flaws. A big glowing physical weak spot (unless it is some form of symbolism for a character’s deep internal flaws, which it is objectively not in this context) and weakness to aurum, and all sorts of other physical flaws are nothing. They’re boring. They’re dull. It’s mechanical – not just from an “RP combat” or “this is how you kill him” perspective (because that’s perfectly fine), but from a character standpoint. The only interesting thing here is the motivation of the group OVERALL (this fascination with, veneration of, and deep connection to the void) with and the genuinely cool ideas like void gardens.

 

Solution

You’ve got some good ideas here. You’ve got some dumb ideas here. The dumb ideas ruin the overall proposal.

So do you fix the overall proposal?

Simple, you just cut out the dumb stuff and home in on the good stuff.

The idea of a cult that venerates the void and seeks to spread and strengthen its influence and application amongst existing sorcerers is a neat concept, ripe for really rich roleplaying.

You might think that it’s just a guild, at that point, but in order to see the concept fully realized, it requires lore behind it. Behind its members.

What if the Iylderi were a society of powerful void mages with a common fascination with, veneration of, and deep connection with the void, BUT they weren’t “Archons 2.0, Support Edition”

What if they were twisted in both mind and body in their pursuit of growing closer to the void and expounding its importance within the lives of the Descendants at large? Made into pseudo-void horrors of sorts, with some strengths giving them an edge over existing void-mages, maybe with the already existing focus on support, but a wide range of flaws both physical and mental that ultimately outweigh this and don’t amount to “look, I’m weak to commonly anti-spectral stuff and I have a big glowing weak spot”. Where the lore itself isn’t to provide a creature – it’s to supplement that organization. It fluffs them out. It might not even provide much on the “special creature” side, with only marginal differences from normal descendants outside of the aesthetic attributes. That has potential.

Oh, and get rid of the cap if you’re going to do that. Hell, get rid of it in general and just start punishing players who act out of character and start spreading this all around willy-nilly.

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32 minutes ago, Krugalicious said:

Okay, here we go.

You’ve got some ideas here that work. You’ve got a lot of ideas here that do not work. At all. They’re dumb, no offense.

 

Positives

I like the idea of this cult-like organization that venerates the Void and seeks to spread its influence in the world. That has some great potential – really, it’s actually ******* cool, kudos to you for that concept, it’s fun to work off of and has some real potential for RP.

You got some cool fluff pieces – void gardens, the body being altered by the void on a fundamental level (which isn’t new at all, but it’s always been a cool idea, at least aesthetically), it’s, again, cool.

Your post is well-written, bravo. If I could give you a sticker for it, I’d give it to you. HOWEVER, I don’t fall under the popular server attitude of “if it looks pretty, it must be good”. I like to look at the core, the meat, the substance. And that’s where the problems come in.

 

Negatives

Oh my god.

Endgames are bad. We’ll expand on that in the end, but I’m gonna leave that here because it’s quite important. It’s possibly the most important thing I’m going to bring up here, but I’m going to dive into that last. Just keep it in mind.

“There may only be ten Guardians at time” – I see where you’re coming from. I really do – you’re trying to restrict it so that it doesn’t grow too widespread as both a power limiting measure and a measure to keep it from becoming so widespread that it’s downright annoying and detrimental to everyone’s experience. It’s completely understandable; however, there’s a big hiccup here. This opens up the very, very, very plausible and very likely event of this creature group being a sort of…

Well, Thomas, I don’t mean offense to your or anyone you associate with, but it opens up the possibility of these guys being “Thomas and his OOC mage friends get special powers”. Again, I don’t mean offense, but it just seems like it’s set up and easily made into (by any clique whatsoever that has 10 void mage players present) this “me and my friends get special powers, yippee” kind of thing. It’s a little hard to articulate without sounding more rude. It seems abusable, basically. Any creature group that happens to consist of players that are friends with one another can already restrict access from people outside their circle, I know, but this just seems like actual lore-justified reinforcement of the act of doing so. Again, no offense to you. Just seems abuseable, is all.

 

Now to get to the meat.

This is endgame lore. Endgame lore is bad, because LotC is not a vidya RPG, and it’s not a TTRPG, it’s a combined roleplaying experience. The goal is not, and should be, to “achieve endgame” – sure, your character probably wants to do something like that. Everyone seeks to master their trade, their skills – but endgame creature lore has always felt like a step further, because it is a step further. It provides a predominately OUT-OF-CHARACTER goal for a certain type of character. It feels game-y. If it feels game-y in this sort of roleplaying environment, it is not good. This is not WoW, this is not Pathfinder, this is not Elder Scrolls, this is not DnD. This is a combined roleplaying experience with the goal of simulating a fantasy world through combined roleplay elements. It’s theatre, really.

And why do I call this an endgame? It’s a buff. Regardless of what flaws they possess, the Iylderi are a buff to powerful void mages who qualify and have the connections to achieve such status. There would be no need for a player limit if they were not a buff. These guys, like Archons, are a form of “leveling up” that isn’t organic – it’s not characters becoming naturally better at their trade as time passes and they actively hone their skills with it out of IC motivation, it is this boring endgame nonsense.

Hell, that’s what it boils down to, anyway. It’s boring. Even though it’s a sort of “support class” (if you want to call it that, but it’s so game-y that it makes me nauseous), it’s still “my character is a badass special creature now, and now he has a big glowing weak spot scar, what a great flaw!”

Good characters are made good by their flaws. A big glowing physical weak spot (unless it is some form of symbolism for a character’s deep internal flaws, which it is objectively not in this context) and weakness to aurum, and all sorts of other physical flaws are nothing. They’re boring. They’re dull. It’s mechanical – not just from an “RP combat” or “this is how you kill him” perspective (because that’s perfectly fine), but from a character standpoint. The only interesting thing here is the motivation of the group OVERALL (this fascination with, veneration of, and deep connection to the void) with and the genuinely cool ideas like void gardens.

 

Solution

You’ve got some good ideas here. You’ve got some dumb ideas here. The dumb ideas ruin the overall proposal.

So do you fix the overall proposal?

Simple, you just cut out the dumb stuff and home in on the good stuff.

The idea of a cult that venerates the void and seeks to spread and strengthen its influence and application amongst existing sorcerers is a neat concept, ripe for really rich roleplaying.

You might think that it’s just a guild, at that point, but in order to see the concept fully realized, it requires lore behind it. Behind its members.

What if the Iylderi were a society of powerful void mages with a common fascination with, veneration of, and deep connection with the void, BUT they weren’t “Archons 2.0, Support Edition”

What if they were twisted in both mind and body in their pursuit of growing closer to the void and expounding its importance within the lives of the Descendants at large? Made into pseudo-void horrors of sorts, with some strengths giving them an edge over existing void-mages, maybe with the already existing focus on support, but a wide range of flaws both physical and mental that ultimately outweigh this and don’t amount to “look, I’m weak to commonly anti-spectral stuff and I have a big glowing weak spot”. Where the lore itself isn’t to provide a creature – it’s to supplement that organization. It fluffs them out. It might not even provide much on the “special creature” side, with only marginal differences from normal descendants outside of the aesthetic attributes. That has potential.

Oh, and get rid of the cap if you’re going to do that. Hell, get rid of it in general and just start punishing players who act out of character and start spreading this all around willy-nilly.

Massively appreciate this feedback, this is the kind of response I'm looking for. Thank you for taking the time to write this out. I'm going to take this on board and communicate with others who have worked with me on this to try and iron out some of these ideas and strengthen the weak points. I won't break down each of your points and respond to them because frankly everything you say has merit here and it'll all be taken into account when making edits.

 

Cheers again.

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I have three things to say

1) This is incredibly amazing and detailed and solid to a T.

 

2) How long did that take to write? I mean Homer at this point would be telling you to slow down ?.

 

3) Major +1

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