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Your View - CBs, Wargoals, and War Classifications

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Your View - CBs, Wargoals, and War Classifications

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Introduction

 

Hi everyone, we’ve drafted a new section for the proposed War Rules rewrite. We have decided to use this “Your View” to request feedback from the community as a whole. In the previous week we’ve contacted Nation Leaders and those in the land auction since they represent the leadership of large portions of players. This was to best represent and gauge how the public reception to this proposed changes would be. We’ve done a lot of changes since that time, adding, removing, and editing the below areas as evidenced here. We used their feedback to best represent what their player bases may desire or dislike. Now it is time to open this discussion to the community as a whole.

 

This section was drafted upon reviewing "Your Views" such as the ones found here and here. Since the highest voted item was Stellaris we gathered nearly everything from here. Since this is another game's warfare system being brought onto a roleplay Minecraft server, we had to reword the CBs and Wargoals without completely changing them. While doing this, we wanted to include views outside of the staff and nation leaders, so we are asking for the community’s assistance to provide feedback which we may not have thought of.


 


Changes

 

This section is not final, does not encompass war specific rules, or war procedures thus far, this is only CBs, Wargoals, and War Classifications. This is subject to change and will not be live until 7.0

 

The biggest change to this system is the introduction of War Points -- With the War rework, we decided to go in a different direction than what has been the norm on LotC, which is the Casus Belli system. We are still going to be using the Casus Belli system, but it relies on a few other factors to be properly executed; Wargoals and War Points. To put it simply, a Casus Belli no longer gives you a specific type of Warclaim, instead, for every Casus Belli that is earned you will gain a certain number of ‘War Points’. These War Points can then be used to purchase a Wargoal, which is the primary way of determining the outcome of a war. The reason why we decided to go with the use of Wargoals and War Points was to better facilitate a balanced War System with a fair share of dynamic RP potential - War Points rewarded from CBs and costs of Wargoals are subject to change. The following is an example of how our system works.

 

  1. Nation X has two Rivalry Casus Belli, one Attack on Leadership Casus Belli, and two Subjugation Casus Belli against Nation Y. Nation Y conducting all of these actions against Nation X, thus giving Nation X these Casus Belli.
  2. Counting up the Casus Bellis and checking how many War Points each one rewards, Nation X now has 35 War Points against Nation Y.
  3. Nation X can purchase Wargoals with these War Points, however, only if they have the necessary amount. They are 5 War Points off from the Vassalize Wargoal, but they can purchase the Plunder Wargoal, which is 30 War Points.
  4. Now, Nation X will Warclaim Nation Y with the Wargoal to Plunder Nation Y.  A Wargoal is the desired end result Nation X wants from the Warclaim, their desire is to Plunder Nation Y, and this is all that can be done with that Wargoal.


This section will have covered most questions regarding the changes, now to move onto the bread and butter of the rewrite so far.
 



CBs, Wargoals, and War Classifications

Key: = GM Concern or area to focus on edit/ Assistance Requested

 

Casus Bellis

Expiry Time: 60 Days
 

  • Subjugation: Allows for Nation X to demand a tile, area, or resources of Nation Y. If this demand is refused, it allows for the demanding Nation to gain a subjugation CB. Against the opposing Nation Y.
    • This does not include the capital.
    • Resources are further defined as Materials, Minas, etc, essentially a Tribute.
      • The amount demanded must be within reason, if a dispute arises a verdict by the Game Moderation Team will be made.
    • Rewards 5 War Points (Can only be used twice per month).
       
  • Border Friction: If Nation X and Nation Y share a border, border conflicts may occur.

    THIS WILL ONLY BE IN PLACE AFTER 30 DAYS OF MAP START

    • A Nation may only stack the ‘Border Friction’ CB twice.
      • The Attacking Nation will only get 5 War Points from every Border Conflict, while the Defending Nation will gain 10 War Points.
    • Example: If Nation X attacks Nation Y two times, Nation X will get 10 War Points and Nation Y will get 20 War Points. However, if Nation Y then goes on the assault and attacks Nation X two times, Nation Y will gain 10 War Points and Nation X will gain 20 War Points. In the end they will both have 30 War Points on both sides in total.
       
  • Subjugated: If Nation Y is subjugated by Nation X in any context, Vassal, Tributary, etc, they earn the ‘Subjugated’ CB.
    • Rewards Independence as a Wargoal.
       
  • Claims: A previously owned tile that is currently in possession of Nation Y, that once belonged to Nation X.
    • This CB would have no expiry date.
    • Claims must be documented or shown on the forums via a forum post.
      • This includes but is not limited to claims to land, marriages, heirs to thrones, landed titles, etc.
      • Alternatively, if a close relative of a Nation Leader wishes to declare their intent for the throne then they may get claimant CB due to a blood claim.
    • This claim passes down family members.
    • This CB also counts for an heir being usurped or someone having their titles stolen.
    • Rewards 15 - 30 War Points depending on the size of the claim.
       
  • Stolen Heritage - If Nation Y has a Relic or an item of grand importance held by Nation X, that originally belonged to Nation Y, then Nation Y earns the ‘Stolen Heritage’ CB.
    • Further defining what a ‘Relic’ or ‘item of grand importance’ is. These items that are extremely valued by a Nation, for example, the Hammer of Urguan, Sword of Horen, the Ashwood Tree, Crown of Urguan, etc. A verdict may be given by the Game Moderation Team if there are disputes over the value of an item.
      • Any Relic or item of grand importance should be GM/LT Signed or GM/LT Approved via a sign.
    • Example: Nation X sponsored a group to steal Nation Y's item.
      • This includes obtaining it through any illegitimate means or through the auction house.
    • If a person resides in Nation X with the item, and Nation Y refuses to help retrieve the item, this CB can be granted against Nation Y.
    • Once a warclaim post is made with this CB, the relic cannot be moved from its location.
      • If need be, GMs will have a specially locked chests to prevent the movement of the item.
    • Rewards 25 War Points.
       
  • Attack on Leadership - If the Leadership of Nation Y is attacked by Nation X, and they have reason to believe this was organized by Nation X, they earn the ‘Assault on Leadership’ CB.
    • If the PRO or an immediate relative of the PRO is attacked, War Points awarded are doubled.
    • Leadership is defined as the PRO, RO, military leadership, or anyone designated as such on a forum post.
    • Rewards 15 War Points.

 

  • Rivalry - If Nation Y is consistently raided or has claims made against them by Nation X, Nation Y earns the ‘Rivalry’ CB.
    • This is further defined as Nation X conducting organized raids consistently against Nation Y, or making aggressive claims against them. (Maybe more?)
    • Claims are defined as official documents by the leadership of a nation, such as denouncements, threats to leadership or the general welfare of the state.
      • Denouncements are further defined as declaring or proclaiming negative connotations, such as declaring heirs to a house or throne illegitimate or slandering political officials/leadership. This is heavily subjective and will require a verdict from the Game Moderation Team.
    • Rewards 5 War Points Per Claim.
    • Rewards 5 War Points Per Raid.
       
  • Aiding an Enemy - Nation X believes there is probable cause that Nation Y is offering assistance to their enemies through materials, weapons, manpower, military assistance, or anything that will benefit them.
    • This includes support for coup d'etats through items mentioned above.
    • Rewards 15 War Points.
      • If coup’s are involved, the points double to 30 War Points Awarded.

 

  • Rebellion - If Nation X declares independence from Nation Y, Nation Y earns the ‘Rebellion’ CB against Nation X.
    • Rewards 40 War Points.
      • Alternatively either the Conquer, or Vassalize Wargoal can be rewarded.
         

Wargoals - This is the objective behind the reasoning for the war, a Nation may only act within their allowed wargoal(s) for any actions taken on a tile. To select a Wargoal you must have a sufficient amount of War Points to use that Wargoal in the Warclaim.
 

  • Conquer – Any tiles with claims to Nation X are rewarded to the victor. Any tiles without claims once belonging to Nation Y are returned to Nation Y. (Offensive War)
    • The new PRO of Nation X must notify GM Management if they wish to raze and/or salt any settlement within a conquered tile.
      • When a Warclaim is conducted within a tile, either a siege or field battle, whoever wins the battle wins the tile. Not defending a tile against a Warclaim still results in losing the tile.
    • Costs 50 War Points
       
  • Vassalize - Defeated Nation Y may be vassalized by Nation X. Any treaties Nation Y had signed or alliances they were apart of, will be voided without consequence. (Offensive War)
    • The conquered nation will be required to provide assistance to their overlord through reasonable monetary payments, material payments, manpower for their armies, or military assistance as requested.
      • This can only be requested by Nation X every 2 weeks.
      • If refused by Nation Y, a conquer Wargoal is automatically granted to Nation X.
      • The conquering nation will be required to provide room for the vassal to function as an RP hub
      • GM oversight may be requested for what a reasonable amount is.
    • Region Owners will not change with this Wargoal.
    • Costs 40 War Points

 

  • Change in Government Type - Nation X forcefully changes the government type of Nation Y. (Offensive War)
    • For example, you could force them to switch from Absolute Monarch to a Republic form of Government, or the other way around.

This is will be forced to last x amount of time?

  • How will this be enforced?
     
  • Plunder - Nation Y can plunder Nation X for 70% of their treasury and minerals. This will cause severe damage to the Nation and its treasury (must leave behind 30%) and Nation storage may be fully looted as well as any chests in the region. (Offensive War)
    • Costs 30 War Points
       
  • Stop Atrocities - Nation Y sees an unjust war, and may step in, in an attempt to stop a war perpetrated by Nation X. If successful, Nation X's ruler will be executed. (Justified War)
    • This can only be applied to offensive wars.
    • A CB will be granted to Nation X against Nation Y.
    • Costs 30 War Points

 

  • Forced Conversion - If Nation X loses the war against Nation Y, Nation X’s state religion would be that of Nation Y. (Offensive War)
    • This would be enforced through a roleplay post on the forums that Nation X’s state religion is now that of Nation Y’s.
    • This will remain for x amount of time.
    • Costs 30 War Points
       
  • Leadership Capture - Nation Y will capture the NL of Nation X, additional leadership captures and people who are ROs will require a /roll 20, 16 and higher is a capture. (Offensive War)
    • Costs 25 War Points
    • The NL can only be captured if they attended the Warclaim, ROs and Leadership can only be captured if they attended the Warclaim.
      • Nation leader suggestion: regardless of attendance a player will /roll 20 on 1-10 a Coma will occur, on 11-20 Capture will occur. During a coma the leader is not captured but they are incapacitated for X amount of time and will be unplayable. During the capture period, anything may occur. Time being captured for is subject to change due to server rule constraints, war rules could override this.  

 

  • Holy Retribution - Nation Y will capture the head religious figure or highly regarded religious figure(s) of Nation X. This is further defined as Capturing the head most religious figure of the Nation. (Offensive War)
    • Costs 25 War Points

 

  • Retribution - The reclamation of one’s original land. No additional land can be acquired during this time. (Justified War)
    • Costs 20 War Points
    • This grants 15 Warpoints to the Nation you attack.
       
  • Trade War - Nation X has a surplus or a deficit of a material, Nation Y may wage war against Nation X to force Nation X to lower or raise prices. (Justified War)
    • Costs 20 War Points
    • Nation Y may force all market stalls in Nation X to raise/lower prices up to 50%.
    • Failure to comply within 72hr will cause the stall or market to be evicted.
       
  • Independence - A vassal of Nation Y may openly rebel to fight for independence. All nation Y must do is reclaim at least one tile for victory. They must hold this tile for at least 30 days or remain victorious from two sieges. (Justified War)
    • This may only be applied after 30 days of being a vassal.
    • Requires the “Subjugated” CB.
    • Period of 14 days, for Nation Y to act on this. Otherwise the nation earns their independence.
       

War Classifications

 

  • Justified Wars - Nation X has given a reason for a CB to Nation Y, Nation Y can utilize this CB to wage a war for a flat fee of 15,000 minas.
    • GMs will set up camps for attackers, attackers will submit a battle plan in war discord of each tile they will pass through, submit a picture through Dynamic Map (Dynamap) of where they want their camps.
      • Defenders have the ability to defend border tiles for free with a war camp, to move beyond a border tile, defenders will have to pay 50% of attackers cost, 7,500 minas. If they advance beyond their border tile, they will be provided a war camp by the GMs.
    • Field battles will be fought at the battle plan war camp as presented by the attackers if met with resistance from defenders at that tile. If the defending Nation wins two field battles in a total, it is considered a Defender Victory, ending the War.
    • Sieges will take place at the defending nation’s capital as indicated by the battle plan, if defenders win two sieges in total, it is considered a Defender Victory, ending the War.
       
  • Offensive Wars - Attackers will have a flat fee of 30,000 minas for each Warclaim. If more than one Offensive Wars occurs within 30 days a 75% increase in the cost per occurrence will occur as a warmongering penalty.
    • GMs will set up camps for attackers, attackers will submit a battle plan in war discord of each tile they will pass through, and submit a picture through Dynamic Map (Dynamap) of where they want their war camps in each tile as they advance.
      • Defenders have the ability to defend border tiles for free, to move beyond a border tile, defenders will have to pay 50% of attackers cost, 15,000 minas. If they advance beyond their border tile, they will also be provided a camp by the GMs.
    • Field battles will be fought at the battle plan war camp as presented by the attackers if met with resistance from defenders at that tile. If the defending Nation wins two field battles in a total, it is considered a Defender Victory, ending the War.
    • Sieges will take place at the defending nation’s capital as indicated by the battle plan, if defenders win two sieges in total, it is considered a Defender Victory, ending the War.
Edited by Corpean
Fixed War Classifications for War Goals.

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Too many FUCKIN mina. Holy ****. 

 

PER WARCLAIM considering the ammount of WCs we have. The number of mina is TOO HIGH!

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That is way too much mina for ONE warclaim. So are you saying that even if it’s justified only the big rich powerful nations get to wage war? That’s unfair.

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I think the cost of mina is fair for waging war. I do believe in a slight reduction but wars should require a lot of mina. 

 

High costs makes it so nations don't warclaim spam for no reason, also ensures people will actually be serious about a WC.

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50 minutes ago, Corpean said:

Aiding an Enemy - Nation X believes there is probable cause that Nation Y is offering assistance to their enemies through materials, weapons, manpower, military assistance, or anything that will benefit them.

  • This includes support for coup d'etats through items mentioned above.
  • Rewards 15 War Points.
    • If coup’s are involved, the points double to 30 War Points Awarded.

Trading and providing materials during a war should not be nearly at the same level as providing military support. As trade during war has commonly taken place between both neutral powers and belligerents and even between belligerent nations at war. Most notably during World War I:


"the British responded when it turned out they had a drastic shortage of binoculars, which at that time were very important for fighting the war. They turned to the world’s leading manufacturer of “precision optics,” namely Germany. The German War Office immediately supplied 8,000 to 10,000 binoculars to Britain, directly intended and designed for military use. Further orders consisted of many thousands more and the Germans told the British to examine the equipment they had been capturing, to figure out which orders they wished to place. The Germans in turn demanded rubber from the British, which was needed for their war effort. It was delivered to Germany at the Swiss border."

 

Further more, in the history of the world there has been no war explictly declared because of trading with a belligerent alone. Hostile actions have been taken such as attacks on Merchants during the Quasi-War and during World War I and II. However these were limited actions to stop trading and not overt military campaigns meant at waring the trading nation. (NOTE: I am talking about wars with pitched battles between two sides, not Trade Wars, diplomatic actions, or convoy raiding/raiding merchants/etc)

 

With the current Casus Belli system trading with a nation is however held at the same level as attacking a leader, outright military cooperation. All of these others have documented wars that have been declared in both recent history and the past. My suggestion is either to make Economic Aid into a separate category rewarding 5 war points or to add it to one of the demands of the Subjugation casus Belli.

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Some of the war goals aren’t really enforceable while allowing for RP to happen, and the mina costs per-warclaim are way too high. The system seems solid as a base, though.

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Wars gotta require many mina.

No war spam n ****.

Also

54 minutes ago, Corpean said:

Claims: A previously owned tile that is currently in possession of Nation Y, that once belonged to Nation X.

  • This CB would have no expiry date.
  • Claims must be documented or shown on the forums via a forum post.
    • This includes but is not limited to claims to land, marriages, heirs to thrones, landed titles, etc.
    •  Alternatively, if a close relative of a Nation Leader wishes to declare their intent for the throne then they may get claimant CB due to a blood claim.
  • This claim passes down family members.
  • This CB also counts for an heir being usurped or someone having their titles stolen.
  • Rewards 15 - 30 War Points depending on the size of the claim.

This needs to reflect the laws of the nation, shouldn't apply to democratic nations and etcetera.

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Quote

- If the Leadership of Nation Y is attacked by Nation X, and they have reason to believe this was organized by Nation X, they earn the ‘Assault on Leadership’ CB.

 

I don’t like this “have a reason to believe” part.

 

Make it an OOCly confirmed fact that a faction definitely attacked leadership.

 

Otherwise its way too easy for a war-hungry nation to make absolute bullshit claims about attack on leadership by a group who had nothing to do with it, just so they can go to war with that group.

 

i.e. “Someone with a beard threw a rock at our King, Dwarves have beards! We go to war with Urguan!”

 

And you can claim that GMs will identify poor “RP” claims and not allow them to lead to war, but frankly, I don’t have much trust in the discretion of GM decisions and neither should anyone else.

 

It also opens up people using alts to start ****. And before you say “We’ll know if its a one day alt”, no, it doesn’t work like that. Most people have some shelved character who they just almost never play, but can conveniently bring out when some OOC manipulating is needed.

 

i.e John mains an orc, but also has an elf he plays once a month or so. The orcs want a reason to war the elves, so John gets on his elf and starts raiding the orcs. When confronted about the alting, John says “But I’ve had my elf character for a year!” which is technically true, although he’s barely played that character nor done any meaningful RP on him. The GMs wont enforce this.

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Corp I told  you before that I’m proud of you for rising up to occupy the GM director role. Doing good works my man. Listen to the lovely feedback and keep on making good strides dude.

 

 

 

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Pretty much all I can say is yikes...
Half of this is unenforceable the other half is ripe for abuse, the cost for going to war is drastically waaaaay too low, the points are all drastically too low, is the idea of this to encourage cheap warfare? cause war rules should really reflect the difficulties of going to war, they should not allow any old nation to go to war cause some **** head is selling iron for 13 mina instead of 12...

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I actually think that the costs should be raised, and wars should be ended naturally because nations do not have enough money to continue fighting, which causes wars to have long pauses in between them. The Cost should also go up perhaps depending on how many people you have, capping at a certain amount.

 

Edit: 136b00c2cb7d1d479c89aa92e1e477e3.png
This needs to be removed.

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