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Redemption for Incompetence

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Halflings should stop trying to piggyback on the orcs, the halflings have always been an inactive race, sometimes they had bouts of activity but they have most of the time remained dormant, giving halflings land just because they are halflings is stupid, work for it like everyone else. Also, whilst the staff were ridiculous and everybody knew it wasn’t Veist at the time, including his own guards in VC (as i was one of them), didn’t the orcs get their tile back and lost it in a warclaim?

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1 minute ago, Hobbs_Burrows said:

 

I’ve never read anything more ridiculous in my life. 

 

Firstly, if /seen is such a reliable piece of evidence for zero Halflings logging on in 3 months then I must have imagined my entire existence for those 3 months. So must Jandy, and Ginger, and Dovahkiin, and Heff, and Prologued, and all the other people whose name I forget. But if an irrelevant GM claims it, then I defer to his superior knowledge. 

 

You also reveal that you have absolute zero clue what went on. There was massive forum uproar immediately when we were told we were being booted out on our bottoms for activity. The entire server was against it, and it caused furious debate for a month. We were roleplaying as usual one day. The next day we are told we are being booted out. 1 week later GM incompetence has left the entire race in tatters. I know you have a habit of making things up, but at least make it believable.

 

But this topic is about the orcs, and a GM should not be derailing it in this fashion. The point is that we have 3 years of evidence clearly showing that tying a ball and chain around the ankles of a race makes matters even worse. Punishing players for doing nothing wrong is absurd as a principle for a server you’re meant to have fun on. Halflings have had to go through 3 years of it due to staff incompetence, and while the Orc situation is not analogous, I will do everything to make sure they don’t go through what we went through, and are still suffering from today.

Dalek, can we please drop this discussion about how that one event almost 3 years ago is the cause of any and all halfling problems today? We have a region in the Cloud Temple now, and we had 10 halflings online for an event just last Thursday where we reshaped the entire halfling religion and had an absolute blast. While I’m not sure if all the fun stability of Dunshire will continue on, we’re not exactly at war with the staff anymore regardless. While I personally may not love everything that the staff have done or are doing right now, I don’t think we need to keep on ranting about this one event and how it proves the staff are always out to get us. 

 

Everybody should just go back to talking about the Orcs and the Orcs alone now. The analogy between the Orcs not getting land and the Halflings not getting land has already been made, and people should already understand how the wonky things that happened to the halflings after Goodborough was destroyed up ‘till Dunshire might end up happening to the Orcs if they aren’t compensated for what’s happened to them. Everyone’s just beating a dead horse at this point and turning the discussion into a debate about something else.

 

So, in order to get this discussion back on track, I’m going to ask anyone viewing this to answer this one question about how they think LoTC’s 4 main races should work:

 

Should the 4 main races of LoTC be...

 

I: Impervious to total destruction in order to keep their vast cultures and lore that has been built up around them; they should always at least have something to reliably fall back upon in order to prevent them from dying out, and if that isn’t able to keep them alive, the staff ought to help them rebuild their activity.

or...

II: Only slightly resistant to destruction in order to preserve both some roleplay consequences while letting them stay alive if they put in the effort; they should always have something to fall back upon, although said thing doesn’t have to be reliable, and the staff should only have a mild obligation to help them in times of need.

or...

III: Completely vulnerable to anything that might be able to destroy them in roleplay in order to preserve roleplay consequences and realism; they should not be guaranteed anything to fall back upon if they screw up and lose everything, and the staff have no obligation to help keep them alive if it looks like they might be wiped off the face of the server.

 

I feel like this is the real debate everyone is having here. We’re trying to figure out if it is justified to give the Orcs supposedly “unjustified” Nation-Status/Land in 7.0 in order to help them out. It really comes down to whether you think preserving the 4 Big races should matter to the server or not. If you don’t care about preserving all of LoTC’s 4 original races, you probably won’t care if the Orcs end up in a harsh spot at the beginning of 7.0, whereas if you think that LoTC needs to preserve all of the culture and lore surrounding these 4 races, you might feel better if the Orcs at least get a bit of compensation for their woes.

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@Jollybee the halflings weren't aware of the situation until it was too late because staff notified a halfling player who wasn't a village official, meaning that nobody else within the playerbase was contacted. To say that Goodborough wasn't active is pretty silly, I remember the village very well. We established the village, built it and that brought activity. We, like normal halflings, speng our time within the tavern or out front of our homes (I can specifically remember Prologued logging hundreds of hours on a chair just outside of his home waiting around for folks because he lives in the Ausy timezone), we had spikes in activity from attempts to rig elections and from charactets killing themselves in shame when the plot failed. To blame our failure to know about the situation on the players is retarded since it was the staffs failure to communicate with the village officials. 

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2 hours ago, Hobbs_Burrows said:

 

I’ve never read anything more ridiculous in my life. 

 

Firstly, if /seen is such a reliable piece of evidence for zero Halflings logging on in 3 months then I must have imagined my entire existence for those 3 months. So must Jandy, and Ginger, and Dovahkiin, and Heff, and Prologued, and all the other people whose name I forget. But if an irrelevant GM claims it, then I defer to his superior knowledge. 

 

You also reveal that you have absolute zero clue what went on. There was massive forum uproar immediately when we were told we were being booted out on our bottoms for activity. The entire server was against it, and it caused furious debate for a month. We were roleplaying as usual one day. The next day we are told we are being booted out. 1 week later GM incompetence has left the entire race in tatters. I know you have a habit of making things up, but at least make it believable.

 

But this topic is about the orcs, and a GM should not be derailing it in this fashion. The point is that we have 3 years of evidence clearly showing that tying a ball and chain around the ankles of a race makes matters even worse. Punishing players for doing nothing wrong is absurd as a principle for a server you’re meant to have fun on. Halflings have had to go through 3 years of it due to staff incompetence, and while the Orc situation is not analogous, I will do everything to make sure they don’t go through what we went through, and are still suffering from today.

 

It's pretty funny that you're still going on with this attitude that got you in trouble. People would probably take you more seriously if you showed respect. Everyone on here is human, you're no better than anyone else.

 

Though I do agree with you. Let's not derail this thread: it's about the orcs and the duel. So enough with the halfling situation, it's barely relevant to this and is just another attempt to victimize when it isn't necessary. Enough.

 

@Pond Got two more planes to catch. I'll be home in around 18-ish hours. If I'm not asleep by then (or if I find additional time between flights) I'll write up my personal thoughts on the whole thing; as (at the time) both a staff member and sitting on the Dominion council. Got a lot to say on the matter.

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15 hours ago, Dardonas said:

As someone who has dealt with toxic, ****-tier orc and good orc RP, I’d say let the Orcs rebuild their playerbase, treat the events like canon and a race of people who are in diaspora.  

 

Regardless of the PvP outcome, the duel should be frowned upon by their respective nations.  Both leaders silmulated bet their tile (and the fate of their playerbases) on the notion that one person can click their mouse faster than the other person.  Both nations should have been couped  by the occupants in RP (which, I will point out that there has not been any ******* coup rules on this entire map and that’s a god damn shame) by willingness to bet their nation homes over a sword fight.  

 

Instead of trying to come up with OOC solutions to fix problems, come up with RP solutions.  Canon explanation? The leader of the Dominion had someone play dress up against the Orcs and win a fight for them.  It doesn’t change the fact that there was an inherit irresponsibility on the judgement of the CHARACTERS in the system (though the players as well), and the citizens should be up in arms trying to reconcile, overthrow, and start a new dynasty of leadership.  

 

Giving the Orcs a handout will ensure that “central cultures” are on on a welfare system and can’t die out which is ridiculous.  Races should die out, cultures should die out.  That’s roleplay, that’s how this works, and either man up and have the balls to accept that LotC is a roleplay server, or continue trying take the server in the directions of medieval themed factions PvP.

 

lets start by booting wraiths @FlamboyantNewEra

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3 hours ago, ImperialTortoise said:

Halflings should stop trying to piggyback on the orcs, the halflings have always been an inactive race, sometimes they had bouts of activity but they have most of the time remained dormant, giving halflings land just because they are halflings is stupid, work for it like everyone else. Also, whilst the staff were ridiculous and everybody knew it wasn’t Veist at the time, including his own guards in VC (as i was one of them), didn’t the orcs get their tile back and lost it in a warclaim?

 

Nope, they didn’t. They rebelled and then lost the land since the Welven CB was that they rebelled to join the Coalition against them and the empire. I’m actually appalled that Veist wasn’t perma banned for letting DPM on his account though, it’s like letting Ghazrial or Charlesthebald on your account to win a PVP match. Also, yeah the staff shouldn’t of allowed the whole thing to take place in the first place.

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3 hours ago, ImperialTortoise said:

Halflings should stop trying to piggyback on the orcs, the halflings have always been an inactive race, sometimes they had bouts of activity but they have most of the time remained dormant, giving halflings land just because they are halflings is stupid, work for it like everyone else. Also, whilst the staff were ridiculous and everybody knew it wasn’t Veist at the time, including his own guards in VC (as i was one of them), didn’t the orcs get their tile back and lost it in a warclaim?

They didn’t get their land given back. We confederated with the Horde, of which they had the land, then the Welves decided to declare some BS CBs, including rebellion for some reason, and despite Admins even saying that it was a mistake in the land claims, for some reason most Orcs decided ‘Hey this’d make for a very fun fight!’. And then we lost our tile. Again. Why we keep making these mistakes, I will never know.

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I’m in for a nation plot for orcs, but what defines a nation plot if everything’s so split? Dominion got booted as so did Gladewynn, where did all elf activity go to? You can’t just leave elves without a nation plot since they’re the 2nd most applied playerbase, and people will continue to do it so they can keep to fullfill their lusty blonde elf brunette erotic roleplay fetish hormonal fantasy, or also their insane lust for magic and extra pixel power to be the God of Mages and King of the Void... this is okay.

 

There are some issues aswell with “reuniting all elves in one plot” because this didn’t work and won’t work. One of the three cultures would end up absorbing the other two cultures. You can’t also shove all of them into the druids/humans simply because you can’t. I don’t see any elven representativity lately on the forums or anything but for staff and magic applications.

 

I’m very anti-elf specially because I don’t like the majority of their playerbase, but I think that people will still apply for longer-eared big boobed humans eventually and will have nowhere to go to show off their culture, eventually being integrated into other larger groups.

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4 hours ago, Jollybee said:

 

/logblock, /cinfo, and /seen 

 

it also took you guys like 2 months to find out the region was gone which was a pretty big sign that yall were inactive

 

 

You weren’t even a GM. What are you talking about? There were never any block logs

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4 hours ago, ImperialTortoise said:

didn’t the orcs get their tile back and lost it in a warclaim?

No, we didn’t. The TL;DR timeline is like this:
-1v1 happens, I lose

-we lose sankala

-we move to kazulrah, set up a city outside their mountainb

-Dse (dragon slayerelf) confederated “the horde” (the other orc group that lived in the desert at the time)

-we got Sankala back due to the confederation

-yadadada, nothing important here, skip a few months ahead

-gladewynn forms, have wonkawoods as their tile, and use it to “evict warclaim” sankala (which shouldn’t have happened in the first place, but i wont bring that up here)

-we lose

 

We were not given anything back, Dse worked for regaining the tile, and he got it. There are no arguments to this original post, none. “They would’ve lost it in the second warclaim”, already know you will try that excuse seeing as you put on Blagos post involving this matter. The second warclaim would have never happened. If I won the 1v1, orcs would have 2 tiles, none of which Gladewynn/Dominion inherits at all, so the warclaim CB of “eviction” or whatever the ****, would have never gone through. There are no arguments, the evidence is clear, and the orcs want a tile for the incompetence of staff.

 

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3 hours ago, Man of Respect said:

 

lets start by booting wraiths -snip-

1

 

You are so out of touch with roleplay aspect of the server that you don’t even know that the creature has been shelved for about half a year now.  This is exactly what I mean, people want OOC to govern how the story unfolds (such as getting Admins to shelf rare creatures for no particular reason), or to give main races a welfare type system where they can never fail.  

 

Propping Orcs up with a free tile does not legitimize their roleplay.  If they are active, give them a tile, if not then allow them to suffer the consequences.  Everything, however, should follow roleplay.  Roleplay shouldn’t follow factions-tier PvP goonery and OOC politics.  

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4 hours ago, Slothtastic said:

They didn’t get their land given back. We confederated with the Horde, of which they had the land, then the Welves decided to declare some BS CBs, including rebellion for some reason, and despite Admins even saying that it was a mistake in the land claims, for some reason most Orcs decided ‘Hey this’d make for a very fun fight!’. And then we lost our tile. Again. Why we keep making these mistakes, I will never know.

We didn't choose the warclaim lol. Frott, the GM handling the warclaim, said that the CB was invalid because of a mistake with the tiles but Fireheart overruled him and allowed the warclaim to happen

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10 hours ago, ImperialTortoise said:

Halflings should stop trying to piggyback on the orcs, the halflings have always been an inactive race, sometimes they had bouts of activity but they have most of the time remained dormant, giving halflings land just because they are halflings is stupid, work for it like everyone else. Also, whilst the staff were ridiculous and everybody knew it wasn’t Veist at the time, including his own guards in VC (as i was one of them), didn’t the orcs get their tile back and lost it in a warclaim?

CB for that warclaim was rebellion since we got the tile back.

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8 hours ago, Dardonas said:

 

You are so out of touch with roleplay aspect of the server that you don’t even know that the creature has been shelved for about half a year now.  This is exactly what I mean, people want OOC to govern how the story unfolds (such as getting Admins to shelf rare creatures for no particular reason), or to give main races a welfare type system where they can never fail.  

 

Propping Orcs up with a free tile does not legitimize their roleplay.  If they are active, give them a tile, if not then allow them to suffer the consequences.  Everything, however, should follow roleplay.  Roleplay shouldn’t follow factions-tier PvP goonery and OOC politics.  

 

I saw your race on the forums and assumed it since it’s displaying Wraithlord and I didn’t pay attention to this because wraiths are diplomatically irrelevant, but I doubt that if you were apart of any nation or player group that was going to get booted you’d let yourself “suffer the consequences” specially if you were target of staff bias and injustice. It’s neigh impossible to regain activity once you lose your nation plot since you can’t have an influx of new players or a place for your people to roleplay at. You can’t just expect people to “stick around” if they’re not willing to.

 

You see, you’re so out of touch with the faction aspect of the server that you don’t even know what the entire situation is, the points of view, the events that happened, the posts that were made, you’re not even apart of the entire ordeal and not even affected by it neither as a wood elf or an orc, but you’re still giving your opinion on it.

 

To address the highlighted words...

Welcome to Lord of the Craft (and any other type of gaming that involves actual gaming politics, not Forum Roleplay).

 

Smaller scale groups (such as wraiths? for example) have a much easier time to have a more solidified playerbase, but it’ll eventually die out if it has no sort of variation, “HQ” or “Chill Lounge”. These consequences were things that should have never happened because they had an outside influence also known as bullshit. The orcs would never lose their plot if DPM wasn’t in Veist account. There would be no consequences since that it’s impossible for Veist to win twice on a best of 3 match because he’s a bad pvper.

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Hey. A dirty elf player here.

To me it confuses me to no end at how much this has blown up. Surely if the orcs were screwed over and lost land due to something that was against the rules, which ended up killing their chance for some land for the next map. Surely if that was something that was against the rules that happend in order to make that so. They should get something in the form of “Yeah. We mssed up.” land wise from those who have the ability to do so. Because its not like the orc-player base would of agreed to something like that if they knew what was about to happen.

This also shouldn’t be seen as a handout. As its been stated many times already the orcs are a core race. As a core race they should have a place to RP in and attract new players, which weirdly if they’re not given a set place to RP at they could lose possible players or current ones might just quit the orcs. Either way it simply isn’t fair, and yes. RP isn’t always fair but if you think of it logically. The survivors of all the races get to the new land. Why the heck wouldn’t the orcs band together to make a place their own when all the others will? 

tl;dr.  Just give the orcs some land dangit, it makes sense in RP.

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