Combat Roleplay - The Game of Loss

[JustMeMorgan 1000]

Haha, funnily enough with that ban it was on grounds that I was seen to be hacking and after a GM kindly searched through my computer for such hacks using some special software stuff, they found I did not hack. The reason mostly for the ban was as a new player I essentially was spamming about it trying to get unbanned, a big off incident

 

On that note, why are you linking back something from 2 years ago lol? I gave you something that was 2 months, now your scrounging from an argument dumbo

 

So please do the post a favour and leave if that is okay with you, you’ve created a toxic environment that I do not enjoy and I’ll simply report the other posts for toxicity if that’s alright with you

 

And so you are salty then, that’s nice!

Edited February 27, 2019 by Morganosaurus Rex

[DISCOLIQUID 1956]

2 minutes ago, Morganosaurus Rex said:

Ah yes, bans, funnily enough that one was disproved my from a good friend who searched my computer and found that I indeed, did not hack, it was merely some complications as I was spamming about it lol

 

Nice try Disco but if you want to look not salty, do this entire post a behaviour and leave, no-one on the post wants you and you’ve caused massive issues in it.

 

And so you are salty then, that’s nice!

 

I don’t really feel like you’ve addressed any of the numerous concerns I’ve brought up with your guide. I understand that you’re very upset with my behavior, and you think I’m being Lord Chuddington the 3^rd right now, but I’ve listed several very clear issues with the system you’re proposing. 

 

I’ll try and make my points clear, maybe they’re not, and I’m just missing something.

 

1. I don’t see any inherent value in adhering to your guide. What is the value in adhering to your guide? Why should I use it?
2. How does your guide deal with the problem of a total ****** (say, Me! for example) leveraging years of experience in CRP to just take free wins?
3. How does your guide teach people how to do anything other than just accept that people with more experience deserve to beat them?
4. Why are you so set on asserting real-world values for armor in a world where armor takes maybe 30 minutes to achieve?
5. And what are the harms of NOT using your guide? Like if I just completely ignored it and went along with my life, what am I losing?

[JustMeMorgan 1000]

Maybe instead of filling messages with inherent salt that you deny, you could actually propose issues like a normal human being ?

 

1. I shouldn’t have to describe why my guide is useful so if you don’t see a use to it, don’t read or post on it and leave it be.
2. Please understand this is a guide full of ideas, it’s not a set of rules, it’s a guide, I’m giving the idea that if a player has spent substantially more time in practice with this (idk guard for Haelun’or for 300 years with 20 warclaims under their collar) their going to be much better than the freshly made 10 days old peasant.
3. It’s meant to tell them they need to understand to be beaten, that I think is your main misconception, I am aiming to tell players that in this server, you are going to lose fights, and they should accept that.
4. If things don’t say otherwise, assume the real-world equivalent. No-one says that I can’t do three backflips in a row so you are saying I should go against assumptions and that I can? Please make that clearer.
5. Not using my guide just means you can make the same mistakes, that’s about it.

[Bluee 443]

Personally, I do enjoy a good match of CRP. Sure you’ll have some bad mishaps but if you and your opponent are both being fair, it makes the overall experience much more fun and I think anyone that follows this guide should have an alright time doing CRP as well. As an Event Team Actor, CRP is a huge part of our jobs, so thank you!

[DISCOLIQUID 1956]

2 minutes ago, Morganosaurus Rex said:

Maybe instead of filling messages with inherent salt that you deny, you could actually propose issues like a normal human being ?

 

1. I shouldn’t have to describe why my guide is useful so if you don’t see a use to it, don’t read or post on it and leave it be.

 

Agree to disagree.

 

2 minutes ago, Morganosaurus Rex said:

1. Please understand this is a guide full of ideas, it’s not a set of rules, it’s a guide, I’m giving the idea that if a player has spent substantially more time in practice with this (idk guard for Haelun’or for 300 years with 20 warclaims under their collar) their going to be much better than the freshly made 10 days old peasant.

 

This system is damaging. I’ve explained why multiple times.

 

2 minutes ago, Morganosaurus Rex said:

1. It’s meant to tell them they need to understand to be beaten, that I think is your main misconception, I am aiming to tell players that in this server, you are going to lose fights, and they should accept that.

 

No, again, you’re wrong about my misconception. I agree that people should lose. I don’t think they have to lose because they’re less experienced, though.

 

2 minutes ago, Morganosaurus Rex said:

1. If things don’t say otherwise, assume the real-world equivalent. No-one says that I can’t do three backflips in a row so you are saying I should go against assumptions and that I can? Please make that clearer.

 

This is fair, sure. Do you understand why the real-world equivalent is problematic, though? Like when a huge 300 pound Orc exists? And we have literally no reason to assume they would lose any sort of combat because they share the same size, build, and strength as a gorilla?

 

2 minutes ago, Morganosaurus Rex said:

1. Not using my guide just means you can make the same mistakes, that’s about it.

 

Bold of you to assume I’ve ever made a mistake.

[JustMeMorgan 1000]

There we go, you’re a bit closer to stringing out something a writer can edit on, good work Disco you’re improving!

 

If you could say how it is damaging that would be nice

 

I assume you made a mistake because nothing you’ve written has made sense to me

 

I know the real-world equivalent is damaging, but without anything saying otherwise you can’t argue that plate armour is like paper, can you? Does your steel sword break when it hits something? No so why should plate armour break when something hits it

 

I’d suggest you go try to sharpen a razor or something and try to puncture another razor with it, or maybe a piece of sheet metal, maybe watch the videos I’ve sent and understand that this guide is to help people and people who have replied except you agree on it, and you still haven’t described in full pieces, merely replied to what I’ve said instead of focussing back on the situation.

[DISCOLIQUID 1956]

8 minutes ago, Morganosaurus Rex said:

There we go, you’re a bit closer to stringing out something a writer can edit on, good work Disco you’re improving!

 

I don’t even know what the **** to say to this point.

 

Quote

If you could say how it is damaging that would be nice

 

I already did. I’ll re-iterate, though. People who have played for longer will use your guide to bully new players into auto-losing CRP encounters. You will too. You say “CRP is all about growth”, but your guide doesn’t promote growth. It only promotes a system that solves the problem of “Who should win this combat?”

 

Do you see how your guide doesn’t focus on having more robust, growth-inspiring, satisfying CRP? It only focuses on how we determine the winner and the loser, and confines us to a black and white, victor/loser ideology in combat? Does that seem to inspire growth? 

 

Quote

I assume you made a mistake because nothing you’ve written has made sense to me

 

Interesting.

 

Quote

I know the real-world equivalent is damaging, but without anything saying otherwise you can’t argue that plate armour is like paper, can you? Does your steel sword break when it hits something? No so why should plate armour break when something hits it

 

I’d suggest you go try to sharpen a razor or something and try to puncture another razor with it, or maybe a piece of sheet metal, maybe watch the videos I’ve sent and understand that this guide is to help people and people who have replied except you agree on it, and you still haven’t described in full pieces, merely replied to what I’ve said instead of focussing back on the situation.

 

I’m not saying plate armor is like paper. Maybe this argument is very confusing for you, so I’ll try to break it down as much as possible.

 

You say : In the real world, plate armor cannot be stabbed through. Therefore, in my MineCraft fantasy world, plate armor cannot be stabbed through.

 

I say : MineCraft fantasy world is not real world, and MineCraft fantasy world plate armor is different than real world plate armor. For example, MineCraft fantasy world plate armor takes less than an hour to put on, and so if we give players such a biggo-mongo advantage like being unable to be stabbed in CRP, CRP will be difficult and impossible to assess from an outside view. Therefore, we should question a 1:1 ratio of real to fake world. 

 

 

[Mavromino 513]

2 minutes ago, DISCOLIQUID said:

I say : MineCraft fantasy world is not real world, and MineCraft fantasy world plate armor is different than real world plate armor. For example, MineCraft fantasy world plate armor takes less than an hour to put on, and so if we give players such a biggo-mongo advantage like being unable to be stabbed in CRP, CRP will be difficult and impossible to assess from an outside view. Therefore, we should question a 1:1 ratio of real to fake world. 

Then how do we judge the strength of plate armour? If we put it in the hands of the player fighting then they’ll just pg it being x% stronger then all weapons or something. We use real world analogies because they’re the only ones we have.

[JustMeMorgan 1000]

It is the concept that:

 

Experience = Skill

 

And that RP is not fair as people believe

 

It’s to try and help change misconceptions it’s not a set of rules, it’s some ideas and guides, you’ve essentially ruined the post by adding around 3 pages of attacking at it when all it would take is a small paragraph asking for some clarifications and changes, at this point I don’t even know what to change because you keep attacking it as a whole without giving extracts

[Bluee 443]

5 minutes ago, DISCOLIQUID said:

I say : MineCraft fantasy world is not real world, and MineCraft fantasy world plate armor is different than real world plate armor. For example, MineCraft fantasy world plate armor takes less than an hour to put on, and so if we give players such a biggo-mongo advantage like being unable to be stabbed in CRP, CRP will be difficult and impossible to assess from an outside view. Therefore, we should question a 1:1 ratio of real to fake world. 

How do you suggest we determine the durability or strength of plate armor (or anything else)? 

Why make up something when the real-world counterpart is the best comparison we have or when that’s literally what’s it based off of.

[Rickson 300]

the dead sea is less salty than half of this forum convo

 

good guide though, should be helpful for newer players for sure.

just wanna say though to the few in this thread who are coming up with rules etc for CRP, at the heart of it CRP is just directly another form of roleplay and tends to figure itself out as it happens. You don’t need arbitrary definers set in place for certain things such as the durability of armour or a blade unless something very specific happens. If someone is CRPing and P2W then that’s their fault, not the systems. 

[Child Neglecter 2134]

53 minutes ago, DISCOLIQUID said:

 

My main dude, I harbor no salt in my veins, I just desire to levy a few concerns against this guide because I feel like (in my “salty” opinion) that it is actually unhelpful or damaging. 

 

 

The assumption here is pretty simple: you should be comfortable winning CRP if you have more experience under your belt as a player of LotC, specifically one who does combat role-play a lot. This issues arises because combat role-play is a noodley, ****-posting fest of cancer that amount to two people trying to (with no real system or rules) argue out who should win in an imagined fight in a fantasy Minecraft world. 

 

Honestly, that’s fine, but if you want this to be true, you need to understand that players who have longer lived characters, like Elves or Dwarves, are going to use this sentiment to strong-arm the **** out of whoever they’re RP’ing with. That seems bad to me, at least. 

 

You can add the “pinnacle of skill” argument line to cap off when people are at their best, but then like uh... I dunno, Elves still win, right? They’re forever young and spry, and if an Elf of two played years squares off against a Human of two played years, doesn’t this just seem like it always swings to allow people to strong-arm the **** out of new-ish players?

 

 

Don’t call me “Dear Disco”, it’s ******* disgusting sugar-sweet counter-trolling. I’m not really salt-filled, I should be able to be sarcastic and bitter if I want to, and I guess if you want to address me like a ******* incel big-brainer, I guess that’s fine too, but it’s pretty yikes.

 

I’m sure you are just trying to address the issue of how to balance Combat RP, and you’re not the first or the last person to suggest that we should adhere to a concept of “time spent on the character” = “combat role-play power”. But there’s no ******* system or exchange for this. Like, should I just win combats on my mage characters that I’ve been RP’ing for four ******* years and participated in like 12 or 15 warclaims? Should I feel comfortable strong-arming other people with less experience into just saying they lose?

 

And I’m sure you think these are just guide-lines, but they’re guide-lines that I don’t think achieve your actual goal.

 

 

Yeah, time is a factor, my dude. I agree with that, but how do we interpret that time to actually get a damn system? Also, it’s a fantasy world, and if we REALLY want to base combat around real-world combats, I’m pretty sure all 1V1 fights are going to mages with telekinesis, who (if we use real world calculations for how the magic works) can literally just blast bullet-holes through iron armor. 

 

I’ve watched those videos, and I’m pretty familiar with Skallagrim and Lars Anderson, and all I’m trying to say here is that you’re providing a solution around time that doesn’t really give a good way to quantify how we should interpret time or practice. 

 

 

I’m pretty sure I do ******* understand it. I get that things aren’t fair. But you’re not providing any Big-Brain takes on how we should view that unfairness, other than that 

1: if i play my character longer, i should win more fights!!! stop powergaming me noobs!

and

2: if i put on iron armor, no one can kill me!

 

So, here’s my final question, I guess.

 

What’s the value to using your system? Why should I listen to this guide the next time I go up to Combat Role-Play? Why are the systems you’re proposing not just correct and true, but also valuable to implement? 

 

You’ve established a pretty simple argument, and there’s really nothing wrong with it, except in how people can find shitty ways to implement it to ruin your sentiment in the first place. I just feel like they’re ******* easily exploitable for free CRP wins. All I need is a year on my character and a passing familiarity with some medieval armor. 

 

I agree completely.

 

These things that Disco mentions are factors.

Whether or not you think he’s being salty, he is not. He is raising points that should really be considered.

These weaknesses that all of us have cannot be powergamed. A mage has a severe disadvantage in a fight, but only if their opponent knows what they are doing. Usually, when the opponent relies on their unwholesome RP that led to them being some sort of dominating battle warrior, it brings all of this Combat Roleplay down to a level where it’s purely shittalking one another and trying to argue with somebody over why they did this and why you did this.

 

This eventually simply leads to PvP or some sort of staff intervention. It never goes well.

 

Something I doubt you mentioned in your post, Puddle, is that, before you enter Combat Roleplay, you must settle your differences OOCly.

You tell them what you have that may pose an advantage, they tell you what they have that may pose an advantage. Items, obviously, must all be represented in the inventory. MAs should be shown, et cetera.

Otherwise, it’ll all become a mess.

 

Edited February 27, 2019 by Omolon

[DISCOLIQUID 1956]

4 minutes ago, Mavromino said:

Then how do we judge the strength of plate armour? If we put it in the hands of the player fighting then they’ll just pg it being x% stronger then all weapons or something. We use real world analogies because they’re the only ones we have.

 

2 minutes ago, Bluee said:

How do you suggest we determine the durability or strength of plate armor (or anything else)? 

Why make up something when the real-world counterpart is the best comparison we have or when that’s literally what’s it based off of.

 

Look, I get it. It makes sense to use the real-world counterpart. But in the “real-world”, steel armor was super expensive, it wasn’t that common, and it was hard as **** to make.

 

It makes more sense to say that diamond MC armor has the consistency of IRL steel, and for MC iron armor to have a softer consistency. 

 

And if we’re defaulting to a real-world understanding of things as based off of historical implementation, we can’t completely pick and choose which parts of it we want to abide by. Under this framework, Orcs should literally never be losing one on one fights. 

 

How do I suggest we determine the durability? I think we should legitimately talk about it as a community and try to pick something that makes more sense than just saying the literal MOST COMMON armor people use is borderline impervious to other melee damage. 

[Bluee 443]

1 minute ago, DISCOLIQUID said:

Look, I get it. It makes sense to use the real-world counterpart. But in the “real-world”, steel armor was super expensive, it wasn’t that common, and it was hard as **** to make.

As much as I agree that plate armor is much too common and it should be much more rare, nobody will follow that, there’s a universal thing where people just go off of the real-life counterpart and I don’t think that’s going to change.

 

2 minutes ago, DISCOLIQUID said:

How do I suggest we determine the durability? I think we should legitimately talk about it as a community and try to pick something that makes more sense than just saying the literal MOST COMMON armor people use is borderline impervious to other melee damage. 

Then let’s make something happen, eh? ?

[zaezae 1097]

I stopped getting this heated over make believe some time ago.