Whitelist App Reform [Your View]

[_Jandy_ 3174]

Such a change is worthless if there isn’t a cultural change within the AT (which is called something different but I’m is essentially the same thing) which isn’t as focused on simply accepting a bunch of people. It was something shoved down our throats when I was on the team, something many members of the team spoke out against but ultimately the admins can override any such complaints. The AT exist to aid the applicants in both processing the application and educating the applicant, if they need such, to the point where they could be at such a level of understanding where they can find their way in the server. The way not to go about helping that applicant is by making the application process easier and binding the hands of the AT to make them accept subpar applicants so that the server can essentially toss as many underdeveloped new players into the server and see which ones stick around. It’s the idea of throwing dung at a wall and seeing what sticks, not only is it a disservice to the applicant but also the server. Do what’s right and let the AT work more within themselves(without as much admin intervention), since the team tends to be made up of the best intentioned people within the server, let them moderate the applicants to a standard that they think is best rather than telling them that the criteria for apps needs to be made easier and that they need to be accepting more people rather than putting people on pending for various biography discrepancies. The members of the AT know how ruthless the community is towards new players and they want to best prepare these new players so that the veteran player finds less reason to pick on the newbie. Tarren I recently contacted you about an issue regarding the AT and ultimately I do believe that such an issue stems back to admin interference with the AT before your time as a part of the administration, the admins asked for apps such as the problematic one I showed you to be accepted so that they could continue along the thought pattern of throwing newplayers to the sharks and seeing which ones survive. 

[Lukariatias 524]

50 minutes ago, _Jandy_ said:

rather than telling them that the criteria for apps needs to be made easier and that they need to be accepting more people rather than putting people on pending for various biography discrepancies

 

We do not enforce or encourage this, as it is worded. There is a “healthy balance” that we attempt to achieve with being strict, and nit-picky, and with being willing to help applicants work through their application-based issues to get them accepted. We do not have a focus on just accepting as many people as possible. We aim for quality and teaching, we aim to try and help people integrate themselves into our community, and that starts with being nit-picky with app issues. We encourage our Community Staff Members to list every issue they find, in detail, and explain how to adequately address it without just giving them an answer.

[Ducklingator 795]

7 hours ago, Wrynn said:

Overall, I think it could be good to make the application process a bit more in-depth however as for the new ‘scenario section’. What are the types of criteria for applicants that are going to be filling out this new application format. If you’re expecting really detailed posts I wouldn’t necessarily say you’d get it – a lot of our members are new to roleplay and expecting them to flesh out full RP posts before even joining the server might be unrealistic 

 

I feel like this is kinda like the “Please tell us why you think the community community guidelines are important” in the ban appeals section, pretty pointless. I mean, I’m not necessarily saying it’s bad to have it in there, I just don’t think it’ll get people to read over the rules anymore than they would if it wasn’t in there.

• btw Tarren, please for the love of god remove the “Please tell us why you think the community guidelines are important” in the ban appeal format. Half of the people that get banned aren’t in violation of the community guidelines and to get them to suck up to them is stupid when their ban has nothing to do with it. It just makes the whole ‘Community guideline thing’ look more like a way to target ban players.

But to sum it up, I think the changes are good – just have to see how it works out in practice I suppose.

 

this but with more sass

[Stephensj 327]

I don’t like the scenarios section, but the difficulty of the application never seemed to have much of an affect on new player RP quality.  Something that I believe is often overlooked is the importance of helping new players after they’ve already been accepted. Their first impression of the server is their first few days on it, not the application.

[Fimlin 1696]

19 hours ago, TarreBear said:

 

 

Your character is required to be at least eighteen (18) years of age. If you are playing an Elf, it is recommended, but not required, that you be at least fifty (50) years of age.

 

 

 

 

This should be for Elves AND Dwarves

[argonian 12836]

Tossing retards into the server and letting them learn is exactly the best way of doing it. Either they git gud or they leave. My immersion won't be irreparably shattered. GOD bless the Admin team. 

 

This meme about ATs needing to be teachers and give new players roleplay lessons is dumb. Also we're at our best peak time player counts in YEARS, largely thanks to the influx of new players. Don't let the AT ruin that tyvm. Please Admins tie their hands again. 

[OldeTymer 322]

LotC has changed a lot in the years, especially in terms of RP quality and style. I think the suggested additions to the form are welcomed as it hearkens back to the application process of 2011, 2012, and 2013 which effectively produced much of the community today. But some things do make it appear a bit lengthy, which could go well or push people away who really just want to get in and get a taste of the RP. I think it should be kept in mind that players coming onto LotC do not need to be seasoned roleplayers. I also don’t think anyone is ever “qualified” to roleplay – we all had to learn sometime and somewhere, so given a lengthy application, players should be cut some slack unless clearly stepping out of reasonable bounds.

[argonian 12836]

48 minutes ago, DeYakFather said:

LotC has changed a lot in the years, especially in terms of RP quality and style. I think the suggested additions to the form are welcomed as it hearkens back to the application process of 2011, 2012, and 2013 which effectively produced much of the community today. But some things do make it appear a bit lengthy, which could go well or push people away who really just want to get in and get a taste of the RP. I think it should be kept in mind that players coming onto LotC do not need to be seasoned roleplayers. I also don’t think anyone is ever “qualified” to roleplay – we all had to learn sometime and somewhere, so given a lengthy application, players should be cut some slack unless clearly stepping out of reasonable bounds.

Every year produced much of the community today. It wasn’t the scenario questions that kept new players coming I can tell you that for certain. 

[Hobbs_Burrows 495]

Scenario questions are utterly pointless. I spent years on the villain application team and wrote several of my own scenarios for iterations of the application form.

 

Even when we were ‘examining’ established players, scenario questions were a pointless exercise that tell you nothing meaningful about the applicant. Imagine how pointless it will be to put new players through that.

 

Scenario questions only examine someone’s story telling abilities. It offers no reflection on any scenario that ever has or will ever happen in game, and certainly not the way that the applicant will actually behave when they are in game.

 

Keep the application as easy and as basic as possible. It’s the old players who are dull, irritating, and lacking in imagination and drive. You have to pass the flame on to the new generation, not turn away people for the sake of a pointless secondary school-tier creative writing examination.

[NotEvilAtAll 9926]

11 minutes ago, Hobbs_Burrows said:

Scenario questions are utterly pointless. I spent years on the villain application team and wrote several of my own scenarios for iterations of the application form.

 

Even when we were ‘examining’ established players, scenario questions were a pointless exercise that tell you nothing meaningful about the applicant. Imagine how pointless it will be to put new players through that.

 

Scenario questions only examine someone’s story telling abilities. It offers no reflection on any scenario that ever has or will ever happen in game, and certainly not the way that the applicant will actually behave when they are in game.

 

Keep the application as easy and as basic as possible. It’s the old players who are dull, irritating, and lacking in imagination and drive. You have to pass the flame on to the new generation, not turn away people for the sake of a pointless secondary school-tier creative writing examination.

This is fairly accurate from what I’ve seen on LOTC so far. Most of the older players lack imagination and are pretty burned out a lot of the time, whereas new players are much more eager to try new things and expand the horizons of the server’s roleplay. Roleplaying with a new player feels a lot more genuine and engaging for that reason, since everything is fresh and new in their eyes. They may not know all of the rules, but since they don’t have any OOC biases or connections yet, they lack the motivation to commit any serious violations, and it’s hard for them to metagame when their OOC knowledge of the server is hardly any more than what their character knows. With all of these lovely qualities new players possess, it almost feels like old players have more to learn from new players than vice versa.

 

So far the easier applications have allowed the server to grow significantly in Arcas, and we have more issues getting the accepted players to stick around than we have issues of finding applicants in the first place. Whitelist Applications should work by accepting the imaginative and enthusiastic applicants from who LOTC would benefit greatly instead of just selecting people most willing to write a massive essay.  The applications should be easy to make so that lots of people try to apply, yet heavily focused on determining the quality of the players accepted.

 

This is more or less how applications should be judged:

1: Does the applicant seem interested in the server and roleplaying on it, or does it look like they made the application just out of curiosity alone or to waste time?

2: Is the applicant creative or imaginative (The two greatest qualities one can have on a role play server)?

 

Sample application format that I think would work well for the server:

1: Username:

2: Create an interesting character using the server’s lore (must reference lore at least once):

3: Your character is suddenly put in charge of a group of like-minded people; what do they do?

4: Something terrible happens to your character; what is it and how does it affect them?

5: Have you read the rules?

 

The above format would do a decent job filtering out bad applicants without presenting a massive barrier to entry, I hope.

[Sporadic 2799]

 

Don’t change what isn’t broken. Especially if the alternative is both more work for CT members and lowers player admittance rates.

[SmartScout 229]

Reminds me of the App I had to fill out in Athera to join the server, and I didn't know it had been made easier, so it gets a +1 from me!

 

Only comment would be that full rp scenarios are hard, as you don't have people to emote at you further, so it can be hard to remain dynamic, unless you only expect a 1 emote response.

[pokantu 48]

Seems harder, which is good. I think this will result in new players being more knowledgeable in roleplay when they first come on to the server, or thats just what I think.

[H 746]

I’m reminded of older applications. I like it, except for the ‘which rule do you agree with/disagree with the most’. It’s kind of pointless.

[TarreBear 634]

Thank you everyone for you input and feedback. Over the next few days we will be getting together to review the feedback and adjust the application as necessary.