[Your View] Magic & Combat

[Princeton 395]

If someone is power gaming a specific magic type, they should be addressed through the proper channels just like everyone else on the server that power games. The lore itself is not broken and has coincided with the server on a rather large scale since Asulon. We’re past the point of magic being ultimately rare since a large group of people desire that type of role play, and axing it altogether is obviously going to alienate that player base. Focus on addressing the people that improperly utilize magic instead of chopping the lore they’ve likely been practicing and dedicated to for several in life years. 

[Bhased 3587]

look man i just want my st app to get looked at

 

Joking aside, you should probably work on what you’ve started instead of starting more things than I’ve finished

[Medvekoma 1966]

When you see someone powergame magic, you cry for a nerf on combat magic.

 

When you see someone powergame with a sword, would you cry to nerf melee weapons?

 

I have seen far more people powergame and ruin combat roleplay who aren't magic users. In fact, the fear of losing magic has led to me never having encountered a powergaming mage before.

 

One exception. Enchants. Now those are just ******* ridiculous. Literally a money mine for a select few people who seem to be able to get anything approved. Even worse when you use your weird enchanting magic to reason for an item that is /actually/ enchanted, so that your weird voodoo gives you a leverage even in PvP clicking.

 

@Josh3738 I hope your knockback III. shovel, prot IV urguan armour and whatever enchants the bloody hammer had were removed with the map transition.

[Temp 2006]

8 minutes ago, Medvekoma said:

When you see someone powergame magic, you cry for a nerf on combat magic.

 

When you see someone powergame with a sword, would you cry to nerf melee weapons?

 

I have seen far more people powergame and ruin combat roleplay who aren't magic users. In fact, the fear of losing magic has led to me never having encountered a powergaming mage before.

Swords and the human body (Regardless of the mutations present) are real world things we can actively reference and research. We know, for a fact, when we’ve been powergamed because of real world knowledge of their limitations. When someone does something sketchy that the creator of the magic didn’t consider, it quickly becomes a gray area that needs further refinement or, potentially, nerfing to remove the potential exploit. 

[Medvekoma 1966]

17 minutes ago, Temp said:

Swords and the human body (Regardless of the mutations present) are real world things we can actively reference and research. We know, for a fact, when we’ve been powergamed because of real world knowledge of their limitations. When someone does something sketchy that the creator of the magic didn’t consider, it quickly becomes a gray area that needs further refinement or, potentially, nerfing to remove the potential exploit. 

 

This is exactly the issue, as I have witnessed it as an axe actually pointed against the user.

 

Because magic is “unreal”, people are far more likely to default into “let’s call a GM” and such. And really, due to the rule enforcement on magic users & the scrutiny they can face if they abuse their magics, it’s likely they’ll avoid it. But, and I say this from personal experience, even if you call a GM to someone who’s powergaming with a sword, it’s likely they won’t be able to do anything. In the end, you are lucky if your character isn’t killed; there is seldom any reports / bans for powergaming.

[Wrynn 1347]

I think most voidal magics, and perhaps druidism are so common now, almost to the point that they’re not really special anymore. Not really much feedback to give on that statement though... I’m not sure how you’d fix that problem.

[Lukariatias 524]

Combat magics aren’t Satan. Don’t shoot them in the back of the head. Combat for magic can be expanded to include aesthetic changes and additions without removing every combat ability, or nerfing every combat ability into the ground.

 

Freeform magics aren’t Satan. Don’t shoot them in the back of the head. Freeform magics can have reasonable restrictions and explanations, and examples, of usage such that they become as reasonable as restrictive spells. Freeform magics are fun and creative, and can be expanded heavily into the non-combative side of things to allow for imaginative and rp-forwarding abilities.

 

Just my non-elaborated opinion about magic.

[Zacho 1734]

I like the idea of having old relics from past magics that still have a function, something rare and exciting in a way. For example, having a reusable Okar contract from Athera that was warped with time, or something more and more. The combat magic thing is fine as it is and imo if i can summon a shard of earth in three emotes after 6 months of practice, and a person can just as easily withdraw a crossbow and shoot it i see no reason how someone could dodge a projectile moving at 300ft/s. sometimes ‘dodging’ isn’t the way to go. There also needs to be a counter-dynamic of sorts, this is where anti-magic/fi comes in because it can actually help go against others RP with silencing and stopping spells. Another note is that giving creative freedom to those who actually want to see magic thrive is important. If you dont want to get creative with magic and actually benefit the server, than dont have it.

[Luciloo 2649]

I think we’re fine where we are. Rewrite what needs to be a fresh start, make the language of the lore accessible, have a guide to help the players gauge where they should be. Outside of that, when someone is reported for powergaming their magic- slap them. Slap them hard. Players won’t report lorebreaking and powergaming if they don’t think it does anything, then it becomes a much larger issue.

[Viltaren 236]

I believe these parameters help with something I have believed LOTC needed for many months. Concrete spell cards with definitions of what each spell can do. 
I strongly think that any magic that exists should have concrete spells that anyone can be handed and understand what that spell does.Dungeon and Dragons does this. Here is one DnD spell for example:

 
This tells you every single thing you need to know about how that spell works. Every magic should be like this. If any person wants to know **** about what magic your casting, you should be able to hand them this and have them walk away knowing you aren't or are powergaming.

[Charles_Grimlie 1072]

Everyone should have access to magic, there shouldn’t be a staff based restriction on its use or spread. The major problem with magic as a whole is that it’s built on cliques, thus, invites a distasteful behaviour in its adherents and superior elitism. However, this is also due to the fact a teacher must aid in the education of a student, therefore, not everyone is allowed to be a mage.

 

Furthermore, there isn’t enough magic that doesn't have a combat aspect. Why? Because at the end of the day LotC thrives on PvP, be it RP combat or using Mechanics. The majority of the population doesn’t like to resolve its conflicts without domination over the other person. This is just the crux of the situation because Perma-death isn’t an aspect of our daily Roleplay, thus, introducing easier methods of dispatching people.

 

I’d say anyone is welcome to Nerf combat magic, once mages get a plugin to fight people who use melee mechanics, there’s more creative and functional magics which don’t trigger a person’s power fantasy, and when players have other means of resolving conflict than to murder one another ad naseum. There’s no consequence for death!

 

P.S. Let us have science, I want to taze a bro with my redstone cane and wizard powder conductor. If magic is the only solution to everything, then make it so that it isn’t!

 

P.P.S. I declare anyone who says magic should be rare is just a snow flake who should learn to share for once in their life! Also, we’re a fantasy RP server not a Political Medieval RP-Faction server.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Charles_Grimlie

[Yaldabaoth 743]

Stop trying to shelf magic because people PG in combat if someone has proven they cant be reasonable and mature with their magic and said abilities. Punish the player, I’m not the only one who thinks this nor am I the only one who has voiced this opinion in this thread. There is a real split between staff and the player base right now, and the shelving mentality is an enormous contributor.

[E__V__O 1984]

This post is something I didn’t expect, though i’m glad for it. A your view on magic combat – through utility magics (enchants) to combat magic (electricity evocation). My two cents is that with a defined emote count and radius of a spell given and done with fleshed out with details to try and offer accountability and work with the story team should be done. 

 

Though, what I said above isn’t really the actuality of what we currently have. What we currently have is a team where they don’t know all the answers as things are not fleshed out and or kept from the players, such things as even Flam suggested in this post being: 

 

13 hours ago, FlamboyantTyrant said:

 

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Ability targeting: How your ability targets people is very important and something to keep in mind when writing your ability. The target/opponent should have a chance to dodge or react to the ability being utilized.

• Short Range (Physical Contact): Abilities that require physical contact between the user and the target shouldn’t allow for someone to walk up, place their hand on someone, and invisibly gank them. Instead, the ability should be visible to some extent or should have some build-up that can be felt to allow for the target to react.
• Medium Range (Attacks within /rp distance): Abilities that harm people from afar should give the target a chance to dodge or react to the ability in some regard. Projectiles should be visible when being fired at someone. Any ability that involves a tether or connection to their target should also have some method of neutralizing the ability prior to connection, beyond just making the target flee the effect radius.
• Long Range (Attacks coming from outside of /rp distance): Any ability that allows you to target people from long range can not be lethal or near-lethal and should have a few different ways to counter it. This should be reserved for things like mild curses (e.g. giving someone an illness or minor pain).

 

 

After a discussion with the ST a few weeks back on this very topic it was worked out that voidal magics are limited to roleplay distance, something Flam suggests above here. Though when thinking that it would only be around twenty blocks being the area of which saying something in `/rp` can be done it was later clarified that it is the distance of the roleplay chat. Meaning that if you’re within a 64 block radius and within shouting distance one can fire a spell at you due to being in a distance of which /roleplay/ can be heard. This is not written down or approved anywhere on the forums but had an internal vote on the ST due to void magic not having a distinction of distance. This is something that should be cleared up or at least written down.

 

To the lore itself, shelving magic can be for the betterment or not to the server, by not speaking to lore holders or putting it out that a magic might be /shelved/ for the better term of not talking to anyone – an example being mental magic with hope of someone writing lore to fix the issues is a bad choice to follow by. Offer it out and give a timeframe for individual magics and then an availability sheet of when you can give your opinion on the magic.

 

I will say, when I was writing necromancy having a sheet explaining what was wrong with the previous iteration helped me a bit, this ‘cheat-sheet’ on what to fix can be found here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PG5eVnMjXYn-ubuZ2D7OSrFGLEO2oUlX8ifx9loxihY/edit

 

The only thing wrong about this though... is after I posted my lore with the desired changes where I spoke to ST and other players saying I hit the requirements asked in the lore, the lore piece I had was straight out denied – not put into pending for changes to be made, denied and the reasoning? 

 

 

I’m still waiting for it. My only assumption being that now you want to push the lore-game initiative that the ‘cheat sheet’ of issues you gave me are now outdated and you wanted to change magic completely once-more. My only complaint with the magic system in general is how quick one can change with the direction they want magic to go into, although people can powergame and find loopholes which they should be punished for and I believe I know this for myself and hope to change. The biggest kicker on magic is the team leading it with having a varying on opinions on how it should be changed and structured and then have that opinion change a few months later to then have a whole entirely new system of magic and how magic needs to be changed to suit it. You can take ascended for example on this, they’re lore got accepted two months ago and no indication if they’ll be apart of the Lore Games to fully rewrite the lore they spent time working on with the previous system will work in this now new system.

 

That are my opinions on the matter of magic and it’s state in LoTC.

 

Tl;dr

ST doing internal votes and not releasing them on magic, new magic system every few months, outdated fixing proposals. 

 

Edit:

 

I didn’t mean to create a post that essentially goes and states that the player isn’t in the wrong, in all hope a player who missuses magic or even ‘loopholes’ or performs an unimaginable feat through magic despite lore stating they can shouldn’t be punished and or their lore going under review and require fixes. This should be done. Though also a consensus of problems should be made and kept too without trying to fix the lore a few months later to follow a new system.

[ThatGuy_777 218]

3 hours ago, Aethling said:

I think we’re fine where we are. Rewrite what needs to be a fresh start, make the language of the lore accessible, have a guide to help the players gauge where they should be. Outside of that, when someone is reported for powergaming their magic- slap them. Slap them hard. Players won’t report lorebreaking and powergaming if they don’t think it does anything, then it becomes a much larger issue.

Amen times ten. I completely condone physically beating them with the report.

[Temp 2006]

29 minutes ago, Tato said:

i internally wither when someone says “magic ability should equal mundane combat ability”. If so: can we make it so players can just spawn in with magic. Can we also make it so every mundane weapon is equally effective as the other – and even further, in every scenario? Alternatively, lets make it so you need a lore sub, a guide, and an MA to practice. No, that sounds stupid :^)

 

This argument is fielded in the sense that a shovel can never be more than a shovel. It can be used as a blunt object, typically has a semi sharp edge but it will not, at any point and time, become something other than a shovel simply because others will it so. Doing the same thing with magic grounds it in reality and makes it very obvious when someone is powergaming or misusing their granted power. 

The intent when folks say this isn’t that the item should be weakened and ground down to nothing. It’s just that magic really shouldn’t be T H E answer to literally everything in any given situation.

Edited May 5, 2019 by Temp