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cost and raids   

163 members have voted

  1. 1. which suggestion do you prefer

    • llir suggestion
      13
    • llir and nation/charter leaders
      23
    • auriel suggestion
      53
    • no change sugestion
      72


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Wow 1k just to do a little clicking. You cant even be make money through raiding wtf. Whoever you kill in the raid better pk for that price.

**** suggestions you ought to delete this post its so bad

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wow people really like to take anything as an excuse to complain 

 

Anyways, I feel like how raiding is atm isn’t really engaging nor really has any RP depth, and really just feels like an excuse for bored people to go do some clicking most of the time. It’s not really rewarding for either side (iron is dirt cheap) and never more than a minor hassle generally for the defenders so there’s not much motivation to actually prevent/respond to them.

 

I really like some of the suggestions a few people were bringing up – some sort of “captureable objective” would be really cool, provide more dynamic fights and force people to really think about the layouts of the area, both attackers and defenders. Tying actual RP/item consequences to these would increase the stakes for both sides, and provide more concrete motivation to both raid and defend, even if it’s just something as simple as “this farm is on fire for 2 days”. Overall might bring more depth instead of just random pvp that is an annoyance at worse and a waste of time at best.

 

Wild suggestion thrown on top: what if nations/charters had official treasuries (minas or maybe a different system entirely) that can be “stolen” from in the case of a successful, multi-tiered objective raid? Can even do different levels of rewards, depending on what the war band is aiming for, eg capturing a “farm” objective would provide meager minas/loot, but is relatively easy, while going on and capturing several objectives, including the “vault” results in a significant loss from the defending side’s treasury. Sorta adding to risk reward, while still having the complexities of the defending side being able to rally and set up defences, as they now have a large vested interest in preventing a successful raid. These minas, or whatever, in the treasury are the direct budget of the nation – so what they need to do charter upgrades, land purchases, etc, without relying on everyone throwing their money at the PRO or something, and thus also helps make those transactions a bit more official.

 

Just throwing ideas out there tbh, no idea how any of this would actually work in practice and if it would just spawn more ooc drama but I’m lying in bed and bored so have a big wall of text

 

tl;dr risk/reward system for raids and making them more dynamic idk

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2 hours ago, idk said:

wow people really like to take anything as an excuse to complain 

 

Anyways, I feel like how raiding is atm isn’t really engaging nor really has any RP depth, and really just feels like an excuse for bored people to go do some clicking most of the time. It’s not really rewarding for either side (iron is dirt cheap) and never more than a minor hassle generally for the defenders so there’s not much motivation to actually prevent/respond to them.

 

I really like some of the suggestions a few people were bringing up – some sort of “captureable objective” would be really cool, provide more dynamic fights and force people to really think about the layouts of the area, both attackers and defenders. Tying actual RP/item consequences to these would increase the stakes for both sides, and provide more concrete motivation to both raid and defend, even if it’s just something as simple as “this farm is on fire for 2 days”. Overall might bring more depth instead of just random pvp that is an annoyance at worse and a waste of time at best.

 

Wild suggestion thrown on top: what if nations/charters had official treasuries (minas or maybe a different system entirely) that can be “stolen” from in the case of a successful, multi-tiered objective raid? Can even do different levels of rewards, depending on what the war band is aiming for, eg capturing a “farm” objective would provide meager minas/loot, but is relatively easy, while going on and capturing several objectives, including the “vault” results in a significant loss from the defending side’s treasury. Sorta adding to risk reward, while still having the complexities of the defending side being able to rally and set up defences, as they now have a large vested interest in preventing a successful raid. These minas, or whatever, in the treasury are the direct budget of the nation – so what they need to do charter upgrades, land purchases, etc, without relying on everyone throwing their money at the PRO or something, and thus also helps make those transactions a bit more official.

 

Just throwing ideas out there tbh, no idea how any of this would actually work in practice and if it would just spawn more ooc drama but I’m lying in bed and bored so have a big wall of text

 

tl;dr risk/reward system for raids and making them more dynamic idk

 

Not here to trample over your idea — actually, yeah pretty much am.

 

Raiding isn’t really engaging? Has no RP depth? The conflict between the Renatians and Oren, truth be told has OOC a conflict, but also a flavour in RP. People don’t RAID others because they are bored, they do it to engage a reason. For example, raiding Renatus due to being Pro-Oren seems reasonable enough, and a counter-attack back from Renatus on say Haense. It has flavour to it — just not the type you’d think. You can’t really bring on the fact you want to see RP flavour on raids which are made to be PvP. An RP reason justifies it enough in my opinion. Also, it is very rewarding. When my friends win a raid — the reward is the satisfaction of getting a win, pissing off the people we raided, whilst having extra gear. Iron may be dirt cheap but not everybody is willing to waste their minas on it. I can tell you now, some people raid and or bandit so much that their gear runs out on the daily either because: they die, it is very damaged, etc. 

 

Capturable objective, sadly not the point of a raid. Might as well call it a siege if their trying to capture a specific point and take over the place for a few. A raid is as stated: a raid. You go in, click around, take their loot and dip. I don’t think they’d allow us to raze farms; reason being more OOC conflict.

 

I don’t like the idea of forcing nations / charters to have treasuries — it would basically be forcing a nation to hold money in their treasury and allowing it to be stolen. The money of a nation should be kept by the nation leader, I understand IRP it makes sense, but this just brews OOC conflict. People will actually cry they are losing minas — sadly that’s just the reality.

 

I am going to agree with drfate on this one, this wasn’t thought out well. All it took was a 3 man GM voice-chat and a rushed post asking for our views. I’d actually not be surprised if I see that raids require payment now even after people saying no. I just think it’s time to listen to the community on this, I may not be a community member (even tho I serve events for them) but it’s clear as day on what the **** they want. Stop — think on the ideas you guys publish and ask yourself, “Is this post going to spawn toxicity? Why are we doing this to ourselves??? Do we need to start touching stuff we don’t even know about??” I’d vouch for GM’s like Ionnais who actually know how raids work, and if he had a reasonable response and or middle ground to this I’d love to hear it. I’m not trying to **** here but yeah

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3 hours ago, Werew0lf said:

 

Not here to trample over your idea — actually, yeah pretty much am.

 

I don’t mind lol, just throwing ideas to the wind.

 

3 hours ago, Werew0lf said:

 

Raiding isn’t really engaging? Has no RP depth? The conflict between the Renatians and Oren, truth be told has OOC a conflict, but also a flavour in RP. People don’t RAID others because they are bored, they do it to engage a reason. For example, raiding Renatus due to being Pro-Oren seems reasonable enough, and a counter-attack back from Renatus on say Haense. It has flavour to it — just not the type you’d think. You can’t really bring on the fact you want to see RP flavour on raids which are made to be PvP. An RP reason justifies it enough in my opinion. Also, it is very rewarding. When my friends win a raid — the reward is the satisfaction of getting a win, pissing off the people we raided, whilst having extra gear. Iron may be dirt cheap but not everybody is willing to waste their minas on it. 

 

See, that’s what bugs me. It feels like other than “boredom raids” (I’ve seen them happen so really it isn’t always a “RP reason”), the big incentive is to make your enemy as miserable as you can. It’s not about gaining an advantage in war, it’s not about much besides maybe a few iron sets and “making them lose morale” (which doesn’t really happen, as I said it never actually feels like a big deal if you lose).. it’s just to “win”, and make the other party “lose”. If that’s satisfying to people then more power to them I guess, but I don’t feel like this contributes to a healthy environment at all. Personally, I feel the best interactions are when people are in it to have fun, and less so about who gets the victory, which is plainly too idealistic but what I’m getting at is that imo “making your enemies lose pixels for just that reason” is generally not fun gameplay, and very rarely contributes to RP other than “here’s a forum post about how we entered your city and killed 2 people”.

 

I feel like this kinda stuff is what contributes the most to ooc toxicity, the concept of “factionalism” and seemingly the widespread desire to make your own group “the best” over everyone else. Now there’s nothing wrong with feeling proud over your community, but when it extends to lowering others.. yeah. Obviously this is much more rooted than just raids, and honestly I don’t have any big suggestions on how to change it. Just feel like it’s these small things adding up that really fosters negative attitude towards each other and boils over into all these problems we’re seeing now.

 

3 hours ago, Werew0lf said:

I don’t like the idea of forcing nations / charters to have treasuries — it would basically be forcing a nation to hold money in their treasury and allowing it to be stolen. The money of a nation should be kept by the nation leader, I understand IRP it makes sense, but this just brews OOC conflict. People will actually cry they are losing minas — sadly that’s just the reality.

 

Yeah idk if making actual losses would just exasperate things but either way for non-raid related reasons I think a treasury would be nice for stuff like fund raising and taxes, make budget more centralized and official and doesn’t rely on everyone waiting for PRO to log on to dump money into their persona. 

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On 6/5/2019 at 1:41 PM, Pun said:

 

What would be nice suggestions of other options? 

 

Some feedback on how to improve the systems. 

You’ll just add changes to rules on systems you’ve no idea about anyways so will it really matter?

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On 6/5/2019 at 5:00 PM, Harold said:

 

 

You should both stop complaining and being passive aggressive, you asked for community input you got it – fix everything else the community wants first.

 

You were both at the (most lackluster) Community meeting I’ve ever seen, recently, but the community told you what it wants even if you don’t want to hear it.

 

That was entirely low energy, no admins showed up other than Tarrebear, the only Dev who bothered was Wrynn and even then he hadn’t been included in the meeting until someone spoke up and said he was there. Every ‘answer’ was “we are working on it.” Except for Wrynn. Because Wrynn knows how to handle the community. Wrynn’s done this before on a team that worked.

 

Now we see you trying new things, with all the spelling mistakes, it reeks of low energy and little thought at all to what is a very touchy subject for this community – so I've got to ask, what the **** is wrong with you guys?

 

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Why would either of you think this was a good idea when staff and player relations are at an absolute low?

 

Get your house in order before building an extension.

 

Devs weren’t present for the community meeting because we don’t get told to be in said meetings nor do we ever get a voice to say anything during said meetings. Atleast, that’s how most of us feel. 

 

Edit: How I feel if not the rest of the team.

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I actually really like this idea, instead of limited raids by OOC cool downs, limiting their capabilities to raid by the roleplay economic costs of raiding is actually a really cool concept. It could add incentive to roleplay decisions having to balance economic costs of a raid vs the rewards. I feel like to improve the economy, there should be more worthwhile things to spend mina on besides goods. But that topic should be discussed on a diff thread... I like the first option, but maybe make the costs per person slightly more like 200 or 250 mina per person tbh. But potentially increase the number of people able to participate in a raid. It could incentivize creating barriers that can be overcame through roleplay as opposed to OOC barriers.

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