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GodEmperorFlam
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why wouldnt it be essentially be ‘give loot or die rp’

 

its almost like it’s just as unfun for people to message their rally on discord and get killed by 20 people, as it is for 1 person to get quickly stripped of their items

 

you can try make minas or die as flowery as possible but that is essentially what bandits are. nothing is done for quality of roleplay from bandits or defenders, nothing is done about metagaming – and until that changes people will use pvp or straight to the point rp to get things out of the way as quickly as possible

 

my suggestion is you should actually make the moderators moderate something (shocking :OO) for once in their life rather than just be glorified region/warp monkeys 

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?‍?

 

Okay, so I've been thinking about this and I believe a solution may be in changing part of Lotc's culture. Now, in LARP culture, there is something known as consent roleplay. One of the key components of consent roleplay is called check-ins. 

 

Basically, when your character and another player's character come into conflict, you should check in with that person OOC later to see if that person is okay. The same should be the case with conflict in LOTC. 

 

"Hey, this is the guy who just robbed you. I wanted to see if you are okay after that." 

 

"I'm fine. I really wanted to be able to roleplay a little more. I felt like you rushed the conflict and then killed me when I wasn't responding fast enough. I can't help being a slow typer."

 

"Man, I'm so sorry about that. I was getting nervous because I know a guard patrol was out, so I felt I needed to get what I could and run before that happened."

 

"That happens. Thanks for apologizing."

 

Boom. Done. Easy. And let's face it. It's the mature and responsible thing to do in a game. 

 

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The biggest problem with banditry is that “Minas or die” is no longer the exception, it’s the norm. Bandit Rp is not inherently bad, it is the players that partake in it that make it bad, and I don’t solely mean the instigators. But there are plenty of stories of horrible sports that meta and cheat everywhere in the server. So whenever I hear the ‘Don’t blame the bandits, they just forced horrible RP because they were worried that they might be attacked’ I get annoyed. The rest of the people on the server would sound crazy if they used that excuse, ‘Hey, I only X-rayed because I assume that the other shopowners will and I need iron’.

This entire post is a tangent, but I can only really see two options for how to fix banditry without removing a large part of the server. 1) Go back to Villany Applications. Everybody disliked them but they were there for a purpose, and while they did cripple a large part of the server for many characters, they assured quality control. (Though it would probably be much better received if it was limited to solely banditry, or road banditry). 2) Eliminate the ‘Minas’ portion of ‘Minas or die’. If you say something like: you are not allowed to actually steal from the people you bandit. People will complain that it ruins the whole point of banditry, but if their only purpose is snatching pixels, nobody wants to do bandit RP with them anyways. If there is no profit to be earned, the only bandits will be ones that do it for their character’s personality’s sake. This also fixes the meta complaining from the bandits because if the robbed party has nothing to really lose from the encounter, they won’t bother assembling a meta strike team. For once, I agree with all of the naysayers that inevitably find all of my posts, these aren’t perfect. They probably incur problems I can’t even fathom, but it is the best that I got. 

Edit: I could go on for pages about what I think is wrong with the way bandit rp is currently, but I figure that all of my extensive points will be brought up by others and I shouldn’t bother repeating them and wasting everyone’s time.

Edited by Odium174
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8 minutes ago, Burnsider said:

?‍?

 

Okay, so I've been thinking about this and I believe a solution may be in changing part of Lotc's culture. Now, in LARP culture, there is something known as consent roleplay. One of the key components of consent roleplay is called check-ins. 

 

Basically, when your character and another player's character come into conflict, you should check in with that person OOC later to see if that person is okay. The same should be the case with conflict in LOTC. 

 

"Hey, this is the guy who just robbed you. I wanted to see if you are okay after that." 

 

"I'm fine. I really wanted to be able to roleplay a little more. I felt like you rushed the conflict and then killed me when I wasn't responding fast enough. I can't help being a slow typer."

 

"Man, I'm so sorry about that. I was getting nervous because I know a guard patrol was out, so I felt I needed to get what I could and run before that happened."

 

"That happens. Thanks for apologizing."

 

Boom. Done. Easy. And let's face it. It's the mature and responsible thing to do in a game. 

 

Of course. All we want is for players to be mature and make the wise decision that enhances roleplay. If everyone would do that, that would pretty much be the end of these problems. But for one reason or another, there’s always an immature person that won’t cooperate that way. Maybe they’re one of the younger players who were accepted on this server and don’t understand how this all works, or maybe they just want their daily clicks. 

 

Whatever the reason, it’s kind of impossible unless everyone you’re rping with are the same people that have learned to be mature over a long period of time. So I think I’m siding with those who say they want to remove crp from banditry to make it more about the roleplay than the items. 

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I’ve had some good and some bad experiences with banditry and with that said I have suggestions for how it can be improved.

 

Let’s try to be fair for a moment and compare the extremes of both sides of the argument. On one hand, elf-man is powerful mage and can 1-hit KO you in RP if you mug them, on the other it’s minas or die and we outnumber you 15 to 1. I’ve had far better banditry experiences when it’s equal numbers participating, especially that in 1-1 or 2-2 scenarios. There was a moment last map where I was caught in a forest by a bandit on a horse then suddenly I was circled by half a dozen more seemingly from out of no-where, I acted dumb because it was absurd to be surrounded by so many people with minimal interaction (no shouting, no signaling for other bandits to come).

 

So yes, there clearly is a problem with meta-gaming and bringing goons in to help especially when a lot of players use Discord while they play LotC. This happens to both citizens and bandits.

 

There should be clearer conflict rules on banditry and how regular citizens are expected to interact or deal with it. Right now I feel as though it’s fairly vague and open to the interpretation of those involved which can create problems based on meta-gamed information and interactions which can become a larger problem if you end up catching the same people on the road several times. You get to know what to expect after a while.

 

So a few points to make:

  • Players should not be expected to halt on the roads at every call to being stopped by words or by pugsy combat (i.e. a bandit walks up and punches me while I’m running and tells me to stop). I’ve had bandits shoot at me with bows because I didn’t stop for them. Why would I let myself get mugged at every turn of a corner? I’m not interested in having a chat with every person I meet on a road. 
    • Consider working with event team members to create scenarios that are more interactive, i.e. a crashed cart turns into an ambush or a fallen tree causes a detour in the road forcing you to take an alternate path through troublesome territory.
    • Have banditry interactions optional. If you run past a group of bandits it wouldn’t be fair to rat them out to the nearest group of city guards.
  • Keeping numbers relatively equal with minimal outnumbering encourages a more balanced experience. I can see how a 1 on 4 conflict would be frustrating, but it does make sense that a group of people could out-strength a weaker or lone mark. Consider having fewer people engaging all at the same time to give players a chance to respond to each other.
    • Have a +1 difference allowance between groups in bandit scenarios.
  • Perhaps have rules on players joining in to banditry late, maybe as if those interactions were theoretically ‘instanced’. All parties involved are locked in until the conflict is over, then have a grace period where they are allowed to split and run off or sit in their shame of defeat.
    • In addition to this maybe allow city/army patrols to enter conflicts in the event they happen to find a citizen getting mugged. Again, allow a grace period for interaction so the bandits have a chance to make the decision whether or not to fight or run off.
  • Maturity of OoC interactions between groups is important. If a bandit is yelling at me in OoC or PMing me because I didn’t do exactly what they wanted when they wanted it I would be less inclined to be compliant with them.
    • Strict rules on OoC engagement between all party members, everyone should be held responsible. These rules are already in place but appear to be very lax due to the nature of conlict RP scenarios.

 

  • Edit: Maybe have some quick pre-determined interactions based on dice rolls to help speed up thieving and scenarios where bandits are trying to be fast.

 

I hope we can find some balance here with actual solutions because it shouldn’t be as much of a problem as it seems to be. It’s a shame that bandits and citizens are seen as two separate parts of the community, while we are all players of the same server who are meant to follow the same sets of rules to get a better experience all together.

Edited by Soul_Blazer
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I think the only problem with not letting bandits kill is that roleplay wise that’s what they would do, even if it does make for bad rp. I think a solution would be making another RP reason why they shouldn’t kill people, such as mayve yoy are confronted by demons if you have killed tooany people, or something like that. But I do think bandits should give an option other than death, just si they can make more interesting RP.

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oh yeah and building from what i said earlier

 

are you really surprised people want to bandit as fast as possible when you have put further and further restrictions on where you can bandit, how many can bandit with you and how long you can do it for 

 

cant wait to battle a ‘’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’patrol’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’ of 40 people when the banditry cap is 1 XDDDDDDDDDD

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6 hours ago, Harrison said:

my suggestion is you should actually make the moderators moderate something (shocking :OO) for once in their life rather than just be glorified region/warp monkeys 

 

this lmao

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4 hours ago, Harrison said:

oh yeah and building from what i said earlier

 

are you really surprised people want to bandit as fast as possible when you have put further and further restrictions on where you can bandit, how many can bandit with you and how long you can do it for 

 

cant wait to battle a ‘’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’patrol’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’ of 40 people when the banditry cap is 1 XDDDDDDDDDD

you forgot your “haha”

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17 hours ago, MadOne said:

I believe that's your one way ticket to destroy a very niche community of players. Banditry is nerfed as it is and you fail to consider what the side of the bandit might feel. If you are going to force "meaningful RP" which seemingly means "CRP so I can magic you" in your tongue, there is a high chance of you pming your buddies so they pull up on the road to call PVP now that they got the majority after all. We geniunely do not want to spend 2 hours CRPing with people, arguing over semantics just for 10 white knights to show up. I would prefer a 30 second solution. It's not about PVP at all. It's just about efficiency of method. You just assumed that all people who bandit are just toxic pvpers who want daily cliccz so I'm going to go ahead and assume that the people who want pvp to be destroyed are egdyelven magic snowflakes who are disgruntled because they can't powergame when the blue bandana man clicks you..

 

This. So much this.

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20 hours ago, Charles_Grimlie said:

The playerbase doesn’t provide a good enough reason to be left alive. To leave one’s victims alive will usually always result in an unfavourable outcome for the bandit in the long run. Furthermore, the fact people can join midway through RP combat is a problem. RP banditry has to be made lackluster to ensure that there isn’t enough time being made for a meta squad or other white knights to show up. With how the system operates, banditry is only viable with a 9 man group so you can PvP default someone without the hassle that can come from the lawlessness of RP combat.

 

20 hours ago, LoganL said:

For me, I have done a lot of banditry since I joined the server, and in all honesty it is one of my favorite things to do. As an orc we would send a snaga into a popular road and have them cry out for help, then like 5 orcs would jump whoever fell for the trap. Now, with that being said we did not always win the conflicts, but we won most as we caught them off guard. This is a fun event for the attackers, and can even be fun for the defenders. A lot of the time, if the rp goes smooth we would just take some of their items, and in the rare case we kill them in rp we would most likely let them SS unless they were rude. As for the groups, that just go up and stab players, as was done to me nearly 2 days ago, I do not agree with that role play. Players should require some rp that is built around it. For example, asking to search them for the items you wish to acquire, or give them options besides straight death. 

So to answer the question, yes I do believe we should continue to allow banditry. However, there should be some work to change how it is carried out.

 

As these two have said it. The issue isn’t with the bandits. The issue is with how banditry has evolved due to **** meta rallies and meta stallers.

 

 

 

First you targeted wars and raids, now you’re targeting bandits and blaming them for all the server’s problems. Just stop already Flam and Telanir.

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90% of the experience is will to interact. If the bandits go into the experience with the “They’re just going to PG and draw this out for 2 hours,” mindset, it’s going to be a terrible experience dealing with the low effort bandit. And if the victim takes the, “They’re just going to use a hacked client / auto-clicker,” or “They just want my ****,” they’re not going to RP the outcomes, RP fear or put any genuine effort into the experience.

The best we can do is enforce a bare minimum standard that’s fair around the situation and that actively punishes people with the ‘I don’t like to RP things that aren’t in my favor’ mindset. It’s seen in both bandit and victim alike. Pitiful to observe across the board.

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First, I would like to thank the staff of LOTC for taking into consideration the communities’ thoughts and for being willing to try new things and change them if they do not work. 

 

There are many well thought out responses already so I will not go over all of my opinions on the issue of banditry.

 

As fantastic and great as LOTC is, it cannot mimic exactly how a medieval fantasy situation would play out in real life. 

So of course there’s the problem of other players not being realistic with fighting. 

Of course you have situations where the fight takes so long other people stumble upon it and join in.

 

I really can’t see how the staff can resolve that issue without constricting the rp environment and limiting the creativity of “good” bandits. 

 

In the end, we’re just going to have to admit these faults and use our own creativity to get around them. Of course, the main problem is people who don’t understand that a good role-play will require their character losing from time to time. 

 

Your character is going to get injured. Your character is going to get surprised. That’s just how it is. 

 

My opinion? Just finish it quick and move on to the next player. Cause my experience from banditry (though I do it differently than most) is that there are a lot of good and understanding rpers on this server. That’s why it’s so popular. 

 

So don’t give the jerks the time of day. 

 

However. Those jerks can easily kill you immediately no matter what you say. My suggestion is this:

allow players to turn their pvp on and off. That way if they want to pvp default they can turn it on and will be able to. If they don’t, they can leave it off, forcing others to actually rp the encounter. If the player ignores legitimate rp encounters, then don’t worry about that player. It wouldn’t have been fun to rp with them anyways. 

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tl;dr **** no

 

Long version: Removing banditry not only further arbitrarily stifles RP, it caters to this insular worldview and opinion that everything should be safe. The fact is that travelling the roads in a medieval fantasy setting is and should be dangerous. Additionally, for those doing the banditing, whether they are orcs or simple highwaymen, there is a certain amount of investment that they obviously see in it. The solution to a surplus of banditing is not to remove banditing as a possibility but to have guardforces do novel things like, I don’t know, patrol the roads. Additionally, for certain playerbases cough, orcs, cough, banditing supplies a certain resource that we otherwise wouldn’t be able to have. We bandit for sacrifices, slaves, and other such things, and in doing so provide them with new RP beyond their limited sphere of RP. Whether they accept it or not is up to them, however, I’ve often had people say that they enjoyed their experience after sacrificing them or bringing them on as a slave for a while (see: Daicen, who we brought along to the event that Marimba recently streamed and who told me later that he enjoyed being a slave for a little while.) However, even beyond that, bandit companies add a certain amount of risk to travelling the roads. Carrying valuable **** on you when you’re on the road should have a consequence if you’re caught unawares by a bandit company. However, that is why there should be a certain amount of player-forwarded initiatives to counter banditry. The fact that instead of assembling a guard force to patrol the roads and guarantee the safety of all or guard forces being given the duty to occasionally patrol their own damn roads people choose to complain about banditry on the forums bewilders me even to this day. However, more to the point, LoTC is a server that should open alleyways to new RP and chances for interaction between populaces to happen in conflict, and limiting conflict to such a great extent is counterintuitive to the long term health of the server.

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I just wanted to add in a good experience I had with banditry some years ago on LotC.

 

A friend and I were roleplaying nosy goblins and we happened to stumble upon a group of orcs that didn’t take kindly to us, I ended up being kidnapped and sent to their camp where I was “forced” to fight gladiator style against a giant scorpion (at least it was giant compared to a goblin!). There ended up being a crowd watching, many cheering to see the goblin die but with some struggle I came out victorious!

 

In return for my victory I was set free to live on and tell the tale, the orcs were quite surprised but excited to watch a good battle.

 

All of this is to say that there is good character development that can come from banditry, so long as all parties involved are willing to allow for some freedom between outcomes. There must be some form of give and take, just as with ‘regular’ RP as it were.

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