[✗] [Aengudaemon Lore] - Dresdrasil, Daemon of Abundance

[JuniperSelkie 241]

Dresdrasil, Daemon of Abundance

   
 

Origin/Background

Dresdrasil is considered one of the older daemons, one of the first to openly interfere in the state of the world. Her means of doing so was to populate the seas with all manner of fish and beasts. She laughed alongside the Aspects, Lyse, and Metzli, her closest companions. They all delighted in the frolicking of her creations, but when alone, she grew somber. The sparkling perfection of eternal twilight and an endless empty ocean began to frustrate her, her time and attention drew more and more to the seas below her. The seas that contained her countless children, so far from her. She spoke to her sister in spirit, Metzli, for the moon and the ocean have ever been intertwined, and she spoke of her sorrows, of her fierce love for her children. She spoke to the Aspects, who adored her creations as much as she did. She spoke of the agony of being parted from what you desire most. When she came to a decision, she demanded that the Aspects help watch over her creations, giving her permission to include them under the Balance. Used to the capricious ways of their long-time companion, the Aspects took some of sea life under their wing, half Balance, half Abundance, but could not bring her direct descendants into their fold, giving them no influence over the leviathans and curiosities of the deep depths.Then she plunged from her throne. As she fell, she took on a mortal shape, a great sea beast, and dove into the deepest depths of the ocean. There she made her new home, crafting a new realm for herself, surrounding herself with children, and only rarely taking on human form to explore the cities and towns that bordered her domain. To this day her eyes, and her children’s eyes remain focused on the seas of the mortal realms, determined to protect them.

 

Realm

Dresdrasil’s original Divine Realm was the eternal twilight of the Sunset Shoals, but she abandoned it when she took on a mortal form and descended. In the depths of the ocean, she found cracks in the world and created a new realm, a place that touches all places where water exists. This place is known as the Knot of Waters and can be found in the deep depths of an ocean, on any world. The Knot of Waters is a dark place, all twisting coral and bone, with glimpses of what might be the remnants of buildings from bygone ages, the only light coming from luminous pearls. To a mortal eye, this place is a harrowing labyrinth of water, monsters, and choking darkness. But to a goddess made flesh, it is a veritable palace, worthy of her might, as well as of her children. Such a place allows her to keep her children close to her at all times.

 

Following

Dresdrasil seeks out followers to replace her original sea guardians, the original Galdr. To her new Galdr, she offers the same boons as the old: she speaks to them in dreams and offers them the use of her divine element in the casting of the magic called Galderes. She does, however, greatly appreciate folk who follow her but ask for nothing, such as humble fisherfolk and those who would put down her maddened children. While normally she wouldn’t care for mortals, the fact that there are mortals who would do kindness to her children brings her to indulge in whimsical activities such as accepting their worship.

 

Present Day

Dresdrasil remains in her palace at the heart of the Knot of Waters, sleeping often these days. More often than not, she leaves most of her affairs in the hands of her children and servants: Argal’ha (known to the halflings as Arugula), Cephos, Dagoth, Gaiol, Kavorus, Thetis, Nerea, the Noble Circle of Celestials, and V’acta. Each attends to various aspects of her work, while she rests to recover from millennia of wakefulness. In dreams she reaches out to like-minded individuals who cherish the sea and could do her work on the land, seeking to expand her influence and protect her beloved oceans.

 

 

Purpose (OOC)

Dresdrasil has existed before as a piece of Xionist lore but never been fleshed out or elaborated on, nor used for anything. However, given her importance in why the world is the way it is now, I felt it was proper to flesh her out. Especially given the aquatic update.

 

Citation Spoiler

 

https://www.lordofthecraft.net/forums/topic/155190-the-old-ones-daemons/

 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2019 by JuniperSelkie

[ScreamingDingo 16793]

I normally don’t comment on lore because I try to keep my “real” opinions out of lore.

 

unironically this completely destroys the direction that this xionist “patron” was trying to go into. What you’ve done is instead humanise a construct that was meant to essentially mimic the mystery and depths of the ocean and turned it into some fantastical generic deity. This is exactly not what to do for a deity post.

[JuniperSelkie 241]

14 minutes ago, ScreamingDingo said:

I normally don’t comment on lore because I try to keep my “real” opinions out of lore.

 

unironically this completely destroys the direction that this xionist “patron” was trying to go into. What you’ve done is instead humanise a construct that was meant to essentially mimic the mystery and depths of the ocean and turned it into some fantastical generic deity. This is exactly not what to do for a deity post.

Thank you for your input. However, my opinion differs. Dresdrasil is said to have willingly abandoned her position because she wanted to be with her creations. Her goal is to safeguard what she considers hers. How is that a human trait? Being possessive or protective is hardly a trait unique to the human race.

 

And while I will agree that defining her and releasing a full lore post on her does detract from her mystery....i hardly think half a paragraph in a post about a bunch of descended Daemons is enough to justify an existing deific figure.

[SoulReapingWolf 2258]

5 hours ago, ScreamingDingo said:

I normally don’t comment on lore because I try to keep my “real” opinions out of lore.

 

unironically this completely destroys the direction that this xionist “patron” was trying to go into. What you’ve done is instead humanise a construct that was meant to essentially mimic the mystery and depths of the ocean and turned it into some fantastical generic deity. This is exactly not what to do for a deity post.

What can be changed to make it better? I understand your point on not humanising her and keeping her as a mystery but I also understand the struggle of having a daemon with one or two paragraphs tops and could be 100% useful to improve a ocean driven roleplay.

[Aelesh 319]

Whilst the deity post itself may have been short, Dresdrasil had a place in the mad machinations of Xionism. She was a symbol of something other than this, which Dingo puts perfectly. She is not meant to be this cookie-cutter sea goddess. If this was some new deity, I wouldn’t have an issue, but this treads on the age old problem of taking someone else’s work and turning it into something it’s not. You either have to respect the source material, or leave other people’s work well enough alone.

[ThatGuy_777 218]

While I’m usually all for exposition myself- this take on Dresdrasil doesn’t sit well for me either. Although it clashes with established hostilities between the Dresdrasil and Nemiisae in my earlier Mani submission, that’s relatively easy to fix.

Quote

As a chosen of the Aspect of Culling, Èyr makes it her mission to eradicate the wretched sea monsters that threaten to overrun her domain. No nemesis does the Mani loath more than the Old God of the Sea, Dresdrasil, the progenitor of all manner of alien leviathans. Being keenly aware that direct confrontation with the former Daemon of Abundance would be her undoing, however, has instead opted to keep the numbers of her spawn in check. This thirst for blood causing her to cross paths with those directly descended from the daemon, such as Kavous the Warlord and Thetis the Siren Princess. Ongoing to this day, the forces of culling and abundance clash without a reasonable means to an end.

No, my main qualms lie more in the disparity between this version of Dresdrasil and her original lore. One should think that similar to the destroyer of Athera, Feldamfir, she should be a mortal force of monumental proportions, but without her original Aenguldaemonic traits. By taking on a physical form, Dresdrasil became something else, lending to the mystery surrounding her capabilities and devices. Her place in the lore scratches a Lovecraftian itch that Voidal abominations just don’t quite cater too frankly.

The version of Dresdrasil presented here falls kind of flat. Not only is it a bad case of deja vu (the underlying theme of dreams is reminiscent of Lyes), but as Dingo mentioned, it really humanizes the former Daemon of Abundance in a way that better suits a patron. Why can’t one of her offspring be the head honcho of this realm and following instead?

Given Metzli’s interest in having a race of mortals of her own, I could certainly see the Daemon establishing something with Dresdrasil prior to her transformation, and it does sound like interesting idea to pursue. However, in regard to the Aspects, I don’t think she should be responsible for filling the seas with life as a whole. Might as well go throw all the sea-based Mani in the trash then. Why not just have her give birth to all the wild and freaky things that don’t inhabit our real-world oceans? There could be just as many LoTC specific sea creatures as irl ones, if not more, so why risk stepping on existing lore for the Aspects at all?

Pardon my bluntness, but as it stands, I’m simply not a fan. -1

[Aelesh 319]

1 hour ago, ThatGuy_777 said:

While I’m usually all for exposition myself- this take on Dresdrasil doesn’t sit well for me either. Although it clashes with established hostilities between the Dresdrasil and Nemiisae in my earlier Mani submission, that’s relatively easy to fix.

No, my main qualms lie more in the disparity between this version of Dresdrasil and her original lore. One should think that similar to the destroyer of Athera, Feldamfir, she should be a mortal force of monumental proportions, but without her original Aenguldaemonic traits. By taking on a physical form, Dresdrasil became something else, lending to the mystery surrounding her capabilities and devices. Her place in the lore scratches a Lovecraftian itch that Voidal abominations just don’t quite cater too frankly.

The version of Dresdrasil presented here falls kind of flat. Not only is it a bad case of deja vu (the underlying theme of dreams is reminiscent of Lyes), but as Dingo mentioned, it really humanizes the former Daemon of Abundance in a way that better suits a patron. Why can’t one of her offspring be the head honcho of this realm and following instead?

Given Metzli’s interest in having a race of mortals of her own, I could certainly see the Daemon establishing something with Dresdrasil prior to her transformation, and it does sound like interesting idea to pursue. However, in regard to the Aspects, I don’t think she should be responsible for filling the seas with life as a whole. Might as well go throw all the sea-based Mani in the trash then. Why not just have her give birth to all the wild and freaky things that don’t inhabit our real-world oceans? There could be just as many LoTC specific sea creatures as irl ones, if not more, so why risk stepping on existing lore for the Aspects at all?

Pardon my bluntness, but as it stands, I’m simply not a fan. -1

Dresdrasil was considered to have filled the sea’s with life when she was created, certainly by the lore writer. There is no reason that patron Mani could not have come along later to shepherd and protect these many species. But that’s besides the point, all I mean to say is that certainly when Dresdrasil was written, she was considered to be the creator of all sea-life. What is done with this information, I really don’t mind, but that was the original intention.

[JuniperSelkie 241]

@ThatGuy_777 @ScreamingDingo @Tennallar

Again, I appreciate hearing feedback from people. I hear what you are suggesting and would like to show you were I'm getting my ideas from and why I've written my piece this way. If you will please turn your attention to the lore post for the Old Ones [Daemons], I'll address the majority of the concerns you've all brought up so far. So, the Old Ones lore was the piece the Xionists had to justify the existence of these deities. And in the introduction section, it notes that the Xionists mistakenly thought they were not Daemons. Throughout LOTC lore, Aenguels and Daemons have pushed their agendas onto the world, some of which take temporary physical form to do so. There are also records of such beings getting "stuck" in mortal forms because they forget how to return to their homes. Despite dwelling in mortal form, they still retain a much larger level of power than any mortal creature normally would.

So while she was a symbol of Xionism, and they saw her as some sort of eldritch beasty, it was always lore that they were misclassifying her, and knew almost nothing about her. Hence why I ended up drawing my own conclusions about a mother goddess figure that threw herself from the heavens to be with her children. My thought process was: “ok, so she gave up her status as daemon of abundance because she loved her creations so much. ok, so since she gave that up to be with them, her children and their happiness is likely her first priority. So she wants them to be safe, happy, wants to keep their environment healthy for them, etc”. If you have suggestions for alternative motives, I am all ears.

Moving on to Dresdrasil's section, it is noted in the second sentence that she literally produced all sea life, as well as the monsters that dwell within it. This means that even anglerfish were made by her. I FULLY support a longstanding rivalry between Dresdrasil and Nemiisae, one constantly creating new life, the other trying to end it. It creates a more interesting dynamic, even if it does become a bit strange, a child of both Dresdrasil and the Aspects, torn between trying to do her duty by overthrowing her progenitor, or by serving her.
 

Regarding the qualm about Dresdrasil communicating through dreams, that was also an original staple of her lore, noted in the third paragraph of the section on the Nature of the old ones. The exact quote is thus: "If there is any relation of higher power among the Old Ones, it is their uncanny ability to commune with mortals through dreams and visions."

I believe that addresses almost all of the concerns that have been stated. I fully understand the desire for her to be more "alien" or "mysterious" but mystery is quite difficult to retain while fleshing out the lore for a deity, especially given the new lore formats, which have many required fields. However, if anyone would like to give me suggestions on how I can do that, I'm all for it. Constructive criticism is, after all, the reason that these forums can be viewed publicly.

[Aelesh 319]

1 hour ago, JuniperSelkie said:

@ThatGuy_777 @ScreamingDingo @Tennallar

Again, I appreciate hearing feedback from people. I hear what you are suggesting and would like to show you were I'm getting my ideas from and why I've written my piece this way. If you will please turn your attention to the lore post for the Old Ones [Daemons], I'll address the majority of the concerns you've all brought up so far. So, the Old Ones lore was the piece the Xionists had to justify the existence of these deities. And in the introduction section, it notes that the Xionists mistakenly thought they were not Daemons. Throughout LOTC lore, Aenguels and Daemons have pushed their agendas onto the world, some of which take temporary physical form to do so. There are also records of such beings getting "stuck" in mortal forms because they forget how to return to their homes. Despite dwelling in mortal form, they still retain a much larger level of power than any mortal creature normally would.

So while she was a symbol of Xionism, and they saw her as some sort of eldritch beasty, it was always lore that they were misclassifying her, and knew almost nothing about her. Hence why I ended up drawing my own conclusions about a mother goddess figure that threw herself from the heavens to be with her children. My thought process was: “ok, so she gave up her status as daemon of abundance because she loved her creations so much. ok, so since she gave that up to be with them, her children and their happiness is likely her first priority. So she wants them to be safe, happy, wants to keep their environment healthy for them, etc”. If you have suggestions for alternative motives, I am all ears.

Moving on to Dresdrasil's section, it is noted in the second sentence that she literally produced all sea life, as well as the monsters that dwell within it. This means that even anglerfish were made by her. I FULLY support a longstanding rivalry between Dresdrasil and Nemiisae, one constantly creating new life, the other trying to end it. It creates a more interesting dynamic, even if it does become a bit strange, a child of both Dresdrasil and the Aspects, torn between trying to do her duty by overthrowing her progenitor, or by serving her.
 

Regarding the qualm about Dresdrasil communicating through dreams, that was also an original staple of her lore, noted in the third paragraph of the section on the Nature of the old ones. The exact quote is thus: "If there is any relation of higher power among the Old Ones, it is their uncanny ability to commune with mortals through dreams and visions."

I believe that addresses almost all of the concerns that have been stated. I fully understand the desire for her to be more "alien" or "mysterious" but mystery is quite difficult to retain while fleshing out the lore for a deity, especially given the new lore formats, which have many required fields. However, if anyone would like to give me suggestions on how I can do that, I'm all for it. Constructive criticism is, after all, the reason that these forums can be viewed publicly.

Our argument is not that what you have created is illogical or wrong. Sure, you can take Dresdrasil, and through writing up more background for her you can finangle her into just about any hole you want. Just as you can with any deity. Neither my nor Dingo’s criticism was that you’ve created something that doesn’t make sense – it’s just that what you’ve created, isn’t really the original vision for Dresdrasil. In fact, it’s so far outside of what was intended for her, that it may as well not be her at all. You have, as Dingo said, humanised her, when she was never intended to be human.

[JuniperSelkie 241]

25 minutes ago, Tennallar said:

Our argument is not that what you have created is illogical or wrong. Sure, you can take Dresdrasil, and through writing up more background for her you can finangle her into just about any hole you want. Just as you can with any deity. Neither my nor Dingo’s criticism was that you’ve created something that doesn’t make sense – it’s just that what you’ve created, isn’t really the original vision for Dresdrasil. In fact, it’s so far outside of what was intended for her, that it may as well not be her at all. You have, as Dingo said, humanised her, when she was never intended to be human.

Im still having a hard time grasping the "humanizing" aspect. Perhaps you can explain in greater detail? Is it the pictures? Her desire to safeguard her children? I would like more information so I can improve the post.

[Aelesh 319]

46 minutes ago, JuniperSelkie said:

Im still having a hard time grasping the "humanizing" aspect. Perhaps you can explain in greater detail? Is it the pictures? Her desire to safeguard her children? I would like more information so I can improve the post.

The realm you have created for her is a city. Why does she live in a city, the antithesis of all that is beastial, all that is natural? What fish, live in cities? Surely it should be a massive coral reef or a light devouring ocean trench?

 

Two of the images you give of her, are human. Only one is of her beastial form. Firstly, surely her beastial form should be at the top – she is the mother of sealife. That is her prime domain, her prime focus. Secondly, why does she have a human form at all? What possible reason could she have to care about a mortal following? When the original Sea Witch lore was written, it was Nerea who reached out to Men, not Dresdrasil herself. I am aware that Nerea is a result of Dresdrasil’s meddling with Men, but, she is the only one. “A brief but impassioned love”. Whatever happened between her and that elf man, Dresdrasil did not deem to stay. Dresdrasil is followed by her sea-dwelling children. There is no reason for her to have any interest in Men, or perhaps more specifically, any more interest in them now. She’s had her dalliances with them.

 

You even talk about her being ‘bored’, that being the main reason for her falling into the mortal plane. She is a timeless entity. A goddess. Why is she ‘bored’? Surely, she is fervently interested in being with her children. Surely, she is driven totally mad by some inescapable desire to be here, in the seas. Deciding to fall because “you’re bored” is just... so human. So unimportant. Why is she “asking” the Aspects to look after her children? You don’t ask others nicely to look after what you believe to be the most important thing in the world, perhaps even the truth of all the world. You tell them to, you command them to, because if you don’t – you’re a DAEMON, you show up, and you pass divine judgement on these fools for not finding importance in what your entire existence is about.

Edited October 4, 2019 by Tennallar

[JuniperSelkie 241]

4 minutes ago, Tennallar said:

Snip

Thank you! That’s a lot of stuff that’s actually very helpful. You’re definitely right about the city. I hadn’t thought about that. Reclarifying her reasoning for her descent is also a great idea.

As for the request aimed at the Aspects, given that Dresdrasil created sea life, but the druids can commune with the majority of it. I felt it was prudent to provide a lore reason for why that is so, why the Aspects hold sway over something belonging to another deity.

May I utilize some of the ideas you’ve noted here?

[Aelesh 319]

3 minutes ago, JuniperSelkie said:

Thank you! That’s a lot of stuff that’s actually very helpful. You’re definitely right about the city. I hadn’t thought about that. Reclarifying her reasoning for her descent is also a great idea.

As for the request aimed at the Aspects, given that Dresdrasil created sea life, but the druids can commune with the majority of it. I felt it was prudent to provide a lore reason for why that is so, why the Aspects hold sway over something belonging to another deity.

May I utilize some of the ideas you’ve noted here?

What I’m querying with the Aspects is not that they now have some sway over them. What I’m querying is that Dresdrasil, a great and powerful daemon, is asking nicely for the Aspects to look after her children. If you’re a mother, totally enraptured with the thought of protecting your children, you never ask for anything. You make it happen, because these are your babies, and they will be treated well, they will be looked after.

 

EDIT: And on top of that, surely, being amongst them in the waters herself, she has no good reason to ask the Aspects for anything? What need has she of the Aspects help? She is with her children. She is all the protection they could ever need.

 

You can use whatever would help you, of course.

Edited October 4, 2019 by Tennallar

[JuniperSelkie 241]

2 minutes ago, Tennallar said:

What I’m querying with the Aspects is not that they now have some sway over them. What I’m querying is that Dresdrasil, a great and powerful daemon, is asking nicely for the Aspects to look after her children. If you’re a mother, totally enraptured with the thought of protecting your children, you never ask for anything. You make it happen, because these are your babies, and they will be treated well, they will be looked after.

 

EDIT: And on top of that, surely, being amongst them in the waters herself, she has no good reason to ask the Aspects for anything? What need has she of the Aspects help? She is with her children. She is all the protection they could ever need.

 

You can use whatever would help you, of course.

Thank you! I’ll start working on improving this tonight.

[Jentos 6813]

Yeah no, leave this as it is. No need to ruin something by explaining it. The fear of the unknown is much more powerful, and to reduce an entity to this lore piece would be... Detrimental.