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[Completed]Banning of a Player, Unjust or Just?


Qaz_The_Great
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Yeah it was just something generally distasteful. The way things went after the fact were far too slow and wasted everyone’s time. The fact that Grool was the only one to give him an answer speaks volumes about how it was handled after the initial forum ban (and the fact that I actually found out about the final verdict via that post lol).

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“Pls master moderator, don’t take away my memes, it’s all I live for”

 

Own up to your actions, don’t try to hide behind some weird double-think, it doesn’t make you cool my guy.

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7 minutes ago, Scourgeoforder said:

“Pls master moderator, don’t take away my memes, it’s all I live for”

 

Own up to your actions, don’t try to hide behind some weird double-think, it doesn’t make you cool my guy.

 

Said it outright that the policy involved in the final decision was bad and needs to be changed. Maybe read what people say instead of looking for a +1 punchline.

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9 minutes ago, WACKO said:

 

 

Said it outright that the policy involved in the final decision was bad and needs to be changed. Maybe read what people say instead of looking for a +1 punchline.


Man, just ******* unban him. You yourself were stating that this entire thing shouldn’t have happened. You seem to be the only one being responsible for the actions of what should be a moderation team, and therefore have a voice to talk to the admins. 
 

Don’t give me that actually stupid argument of “we need to treat all players equal”- no. Some players are integral parts of the server and need to be LET OFF in order to see that half of the server flourish. I’m not saying Narthok doesn’t know how to appoint a solid replacement. But he’s the ******* soul of Morsgrad. I’m not going to get on my knees and suck your ****, because you acknowledge how stupid this is – yet you’re just choosing not to fight it, because you’re probably sucking up to your superiors yourself.

 

You are saying it needs to be changed. Start the change by unbanning the player who was punished for the flaw in the system.

 

hello, community manager. What say you? @TarreBear

 

In fact, he isn’t even banned yet. Just keep it that way?! 

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Spoiler

 

 

Some day, Qaz, you will discover that admins and mods won’t care about posts like this. They don’t care about how much someone has behaved where it actually matters, aka in-game. “Appeal your warning points” they will say, but not take into account that he was un forum banned less than a month before his reban, which means he couldn’t have appealed any points, regardless of if he wanted to. They won’t take into account that he was on content mod and whoever approved his post should be the one in trouble. Then again, perhaps no one should have been punished, as it was a non-issue for several days before one person went “hey, wait, that’s a neo-nazi!” and a mod jumped on the chance to warn and ban Narthok. For a reference to a pagan who burned churches, to someone who referenced the god Varg worshipped, Odin, on a roleplay post. They won’t take into account that he had requested to stay forum banned. They also won’t take into account the community he has built by IC means, his efforts to improve who he is as a person and member of the community, his in game behavior being perfectly exemplary. No, they will cry that he is toxic and bad for the server because of his blunt nature and unwillingness to play two faced like most people do on this server. 

 

Yes, the mods will make excuses and cite his history. They will cite posts he tried to make or successfully made as proof that he was unreformed. Yet yourself and many other Morsgrad (and other nations) people will know the truth. Mans just wanted to lead his group into a bright future and never would have intentionally risked all of the people he took under his wing. But, this is LotC and while our staff claim to care about roleplay, they care more about their OOC grudges. Quote me and argue if you wish, Wacko and other staff, doesn’t matter. My opinion is based off of years on the server. You are the same as the ones before you and the ones who will moderate after you are demoted. 

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I'm kinda late to the party but in my view and I believe the view of most people, punishments should be based on either 2 of these criteria. Either

A) The punishment helps the community’s playing experience, ie punishing a player who is disrupting roleplay and negatively affecting the experience of other players present or

B) The player went against a moral rule, ie pedophilia or racism.

 

Well, it’s pretty clear the ban doesn’t help the community, and will especially hurt the community that Narthok has built up in Norland and Morsgrad. I don’t know Narthok as well as the other people in his thread, but speaking on behalf of the few of my friends that have recently joined the server, as players of Morsgrad Narthok is the leader we look up to and the one who leads us. He would always give us iron armor and other gear if we died without a second thought, and has truly established a thriving community in Morsgrad. He has poured what I can only assume must have been dozens of hours in writing roleplay for our nation, and 100s of pages. So seeing that it is evident his ban will not help the community, the only other explanation is that his forum posts went against the moral rules of the server.

 

I don’t know why Narthok got his previous forum warns, so I can only speak for the last one and the warn that ended up resulting in his ban, which has no basis. You could say that he broke a moral rule by promoting racist thought, but in fact, the opposite is true as he is making at the expense of someone who peddles in racist ideology. In fact, it seems that another mod believed the joke has tame enough and allowed the post to be made in the first place. 

 

If Narthok is banned, then it is what it is. It will truly be sad to see Narthok go, but we will remember all that he has done for Norland o7.

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3 hours ago, WACKO said:

 

Thats essentially why the warning is worded the way it is; I address it twofold ‘rasict or racial content.’

So technically saying “I’m a white guy” is breaking the rules on the forums and in game? 

Sounds like the sort of rule that is so vague it can be applied as liberally or conservatively as wanted by the whims of whoever decides they do or don’t like a particular person. 

 

Stupid rule. Fix it. 

 

Satire shouldn’t be banned, especially when the satire was at LEAST now low effort “le random dark elf nearby says whatever in response to some nonsense they shouldn’t have any knowledge of anyway.” 

 

 

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The staff can **** off pretending that they thought through this ban, weighed the balance of justice, yada yada – they’ve been persecuting Narthok for a ******* age now, making up new and unusual punishments and trying to drive him off the server for no apparent reason. His forum account was basically disabled for the longest time, might still be, and admins were constantly deleting posts that other admins approved just to **** with the guy. 

 

Now they’re pearl-clutching over a Varg meme and acting like they were truly shocked and appalled instead of just looking for an excuse to dish out a ban. Varg is a ******* tree-hugging scandi spastic who encourages wiping your arse with leaves and playing dress-up Viking. Absolutely no one takes him seriously, and he’s just seen as a meme by literally everyone. Taking the piss out of the guy is not supporting "racism and hate” or whatever the **** you’re peddling to justify this target-ban. 

 

On some sites, you know, ones with decent moderation – they try to actually enforce the rules. Y’know, the list of things that you CAN be banned for. Actually knowing and enforcing the rules as they’re writing is really novel for LOTC moderators, but I’ll try to help explain. See, in the handy-dandy rule page, there is no rule against "racist or racial content”. Nothing, nada. The actual rule is “racial slurs and epithets are bannable”. But that rule was inconvenient for you, because Narthok didn’t break it. So following time-honoured tradition you just made up a rule instead to ban a Nation Leader right before a huge warclaim. And now you try to justify it with all the weaselling possible. 

 

Can you people seriously just ******* stop this ****? Honestly, where do you get off? 8 years in, same old ****, same old power-tripping retards who can’t enforce the rules they themselves wrote, same old target bans. Ridiculous. 

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Banning a leader and also a coalition leader prior to the war is a bad move. Apart from the justifications behind the ban or the cause you must think about the situation in the server. Incoming war on saturday with estimated numbers of two side together nearly 300 and as a staff working for the benefit of the server banning the leader of one side is just a bad influence over the war.

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wearing my narthok memorial ltd edition aske – burzum t-shirt (long sleeve) and drinking a pourover as i read these posts w the full knowledge the admins wont give a **** bc they know they’ll commit another blunder and people’ll move onto the next blogpost outrage wallpost and leave this one in the dirt

 

a player banned is a problem avoided. lotc outrage always has an expiry date and the admins will gladly abuse that. its been real but we know narthok won’t come back, regardless of how many people think his permaban is unjust. you’ve got to persuade three (3) people who fundamentally dont give a **** about moralistic grandstanding nd just want you to shut up bc they want narthok gone,

 

 

anyone else catch that lakers game. they really got that 7th straight win huh. see you at next weeks staff team outrage thread, i think that one will be warclaim themed at least

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Oh yeah, quick reminder that this ban is part of their new “place of safety” initiative they drafted up to hide the fact they were refusing to ban pedophiles. Anything to defend our friendly neighbourhood predators, right Telanir? 

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Just now, shoahinsnowyfields said:

Oh yeah, quick reminder that this ban is part of their new “place of safety” initiative they drafted up to hide the fact they were refusing to ban pedophiles. Anything to defend our friendly neighbourhood predators, right Telanir? 

 

mentioning varg is actually more dangerous than grooming a child because the reader might end up browsing 8pol or liking his tweets (ban evading on twitte r), which is worse,

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7 hours ago, WACKO said:

I’ll intentioned memes are against server policy; third rule down. There is also a passage in our roleplay-guidelines by Harold that stipulates on that a bit more, the post needed to be pointed. It was reported and it in bad taste; yet the moderator who approved the post prior to that also shouldn’t have. Was the ban bad? Yeah definitely. Was the ban justified? According to the policy we’re supposed to follow it was yeah. The solution is then twofold. What stand out in my mind here is the policy that warps the process:

  1. The repercussions for reaching ten points on the forums are way too steep. People shouldn’t receive service-wide admin bans for crossing that threshold; punishment should fit the crime folks.
  2. APPEAL YOUR OLD DAMN WARNING POINTS. Can’t really stress it enough; on the server we’re unfortunately in the situation where we as individual players are responsible for keeping up with and petitioning to be rid of expired points. That's the way it is; it’s not that hard, it’s just a matter of filling out an application. It’s not ideal.

Having points set to expire after a year would be a good start; solving both those issues would probably fix things in the long run and its pretty basic stuff to do. I think what's also necessary is for staff to be as clear, consistent, and decisive as they can be; one of the other major problems being that ultimate decision for this case was dragged through the mud. 

 

Appreciate the post.

 

 

 

 

Or.. Just automatically remove warning points that are over a year old each year with an automated system so people don’t get banned for something they said in 2011?

 

Edit: Some of Narthok’s warning points were from 2014, why was he not allowed nor encouraged to appeal these?

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Friendly reminder that Narthok's ban is an admin ban. It's not within Wacko's, mine or any other moderator's purview to undo it. Wacko gave him the tenth warning point, the rest was left to administration to deal with. You can scream and shout at moderation all you want, but it won't change a thing. 

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Why not just appeal the old warning points?

 

Then youre below the 10 point threshold and gg?

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