A Voidal Magic "Endgame": What Should and Shouldn't Be Done?

[IsaaKc 1225]

A’ight, so first off before I begin this post, I hate using the word “endgame” to describe things like Archons, Wights and Zar’akal. A good end to a character's story is a good endgame. Furthermore, any mentions or uses of the word of “endgame” in this post is in reference end-goal or beacon for someone to reach and should not be necessarily in reference for a character’s story to cease. Got that out of the way? Good.

 

We're all familiar with the **** show that was Archons. No disrespect to the original author, as the lore itself was well written, but brought on several problems that came with it, which as a consequence, put a bad taste in the community's mouth whenever they hear the word “Archon.” With all being said, this being targeted towards the Voidal Mage community and anyone else who'd like to share their opinion, do you think that an endgame for voidal magic should be written at all with reasonable boons and drawbacks, or it should be left alone? To add to that, what should and should NOT be done if lore for an endgame were to be written?

[Treshure 5579]

Endgames are a fundamentally flawed idea, the preexistence of any current ones should not justify the creation of new endgame magic. You cite why endgames aren’t vital in the first paragraph, and that’s where it frankly should have ended.

 

Magic, like all other devices of RP, are a means to an end to the character’s journey. Full stop. Making magic itself some endgame tiered Mario Kart race bullshit is the brainchild of bored teenagers who want to flex over other magic RPers in their echo chamber.

 

It won’t benefit anyone and it never has. Let it die.

[IsaaKc 1225]

48 minutes ago, Treshure said:

Magic, like all other devices of RP, are a means to an end to the character’s journey. Full stop.

That’s not necessarily true at all. Magic is meant to expand on your character, whether or not it’s OOC oriented. What you’re referring to are subpar mages that let their magic define their character—which isn’t the archetype I’m trying to exemplify.

[monkeypoacher 6993]

3 hours ago, MavrominoAlt said:

That’s not necessarily true at all. Magic is meant to expand on your character, whether or not it’s OOC oriented. What you’re referring to are subpar mages that let their magic define their character—which isn’t the archetype I’m trying to exemplify.

You just said the same thing he said but in different words. “Means to an end to the character’s journey” == “meant to expand on your character”

[excited 10833]

I was a Keeper of Xan, I was the peak of paladinism, and I hated it. There were quirks involved with being one that made playing it fun, but otherwise, it was just posturing and the race itself was used as a means of controlling people. I was a Wraith, it was fun, Wraiths are not an “endgame”; as by definition, they are a creature that exists not as the peak of necromancy, but as a thing on their own that anyone can achieve through rp. 

 

Endgame is anything that is used to exemplify control. Wraithdom, for instance, is just a creature like a Satyr or some other thing that occurs through phenomena and makes for interesting characters. Keepers, Itharel, Zar’akal, and other “endgames” are just ways of power-boosting and disregarding policies against power-gaming.

 

 

 

 

[Quavinir_Twiceborn 1041]

I am not opposed to the idea of a endgame for void mages, heck, I think if done right it could be something thats extremely

fun and interesting. However, it being done the ‘right way’ is the overall problem. Standardly, the bulk of void magic (that

being telekinesis, evocation, conjuration, illusion, arcanism, etc)  is either combative, or used to gain power over other characters. As such,

past voidal ‘endgames’ have been somewhat in the same vein, which I view as being a massive issue.

 

A character gaining ‘power’ in an endgame thing is not something I am opposed to, however, it is important to define what 

this power is over, whether self (one’s awareness, self control, state of body, knowledge, etc), power over one’s environment

(powers allowing one to affect or change the world, items, physical concepts, etc) or power over other players. (abilities that

allow one to better control, or overpower in combat characters played by others.)

Making an endgame that gives a mage more power over other players, to me, is the worst way to go, and I think exploring

more outside the box concepts would be prudent. The lore of  LOTC is surprisingly allowing of many ingenious, or many

times wacky concepts. I think taking time to consider something that would both prove interesting, and be able to change

how someone roleplays said ‘endgame’ mage drastically would be the best path to take in formulating an ‘endgame’, rather

than putting what ‘power’ they could have.

[Mr. Etan 2839]

No more magic “endgames”. lets focus on making magic actually fun to rp these days and more open to the community like how alchemy is

[Wand 932]

Anyone’s goal with a magic or ability regardless of aptitude, manapool, etc. could be finding the creative limits of their spells or abilities. The less utility or creative freedom people have when casting a spell, the more likely I find they are to seek out boons, artifacts or other means to raise their own raw power.

Granted how starved the community seems for creativity in magic these days, perhaps Voidal magics should be written with this in mind. Otherwise, you will end up again with folks picking up magics not for the roleplay or the creative potential behind the magic but because it has spells that stack well with other magic they already possess or are aiming for.

[Demotheus 649]

If anything is an actual “end game” like Archons it should be suitably difficult to get to that stage and not be even remotely close to inevitable. 

[gameingg 603]

I just want one that ends aging...

[JustMeMorgan 1000]

I think the issue is in the Tiers of magic itself

T1-T5 already puts mages into a category and therfore T6 should be our ‘endgame creatures’ when it shouldn’t be

 

I think something that allows creative freedom without forceful limitations and with options out (as to allow the character to further progress*)

 

*one of the reasons why I say this is because I think if you lock them into it, it turns it into an endgame, if you allow them to get out (e.g. make it complex enough to not be easy but not enough to make it stupidly tiresome to do) it allows the player to further progress rather than stop at the ‘endgame’ (e.g. they get into the creature, realise its ruining them so try to pull away from it)

 

Try to make it so it is fun and enjoyable to do without putting insane power levels over other things, ‘circlejerks’ are essentially just niche groups who covet it, so make it a niche-group who can’t covet it

 

I’d seriously suggest self-taught method of doing it, maybe some method that gives them a cool new ability

Maybe you could make a Voidal magic that just uses pure voidal energy in a more explosive manner, without shape or figure, legit like blasting people with Eldritch Blast style stuff, magic without even shaping such as arcanism

 

That would make it so its not an end-game, but has prerequisites that makes it feel like its a pinnaclwe magic

 

TL;DR SELF TAUGHT BIG VOIDAL MAGIC THAT ISN’T ABSURDLY POWERFUL BUT HAS A UNIQUE FLAVOUR TO IT

[BrandNewKitten 2788]

I always stated Celestialism to be an “endgame” addition to Arcanism. However I believed that endgames should be about obtaining tools that allow the player to further facilitate roleplay rather than obtaining raw power. By the time someone reaches an endgame they should be fully engaged in how their magic works and how it specifically shapes their character. An endgame shouldn’t be about completing something and instead it should be an option to further roleplay in that specific magic.

 

Basically endgames should offer tools that allow interested parties to solidify a thematic role without pumping power into them. I think I achieved this in Celestialism and had self-teaching been kept it may have faired better than it has (I dislike teaching rp/busy life =/= inability to stoke the rp). Endgames (including my own lore) can’t rely too heavily on one person. They need to be built to be accessible. 

 

That being said endgames have added a lot of dynamic elements to the server. I have a bias towards Archons since what I experienced from that lore was positive. A few years later I can see how lore like that, and maybe even my own, need another look to make sure the theme they offer is built around aesthetics instead of control. 

 

Does any of that make sense? I’m feeling tepid on this issue.

[Myleres 1658]

The real endgame is the friends you make along the way.

[squakhawk 7302]

endgames can be fine but i think it should drastically alter the way you use or think about the magic

straight power increases or “power increases” (minor drawbacks or niche drawbacks) should not exist. An “endgame” should be something that takes in-lore and set ground ruled trials and requirements that you have to achieve over time and utilize parts of the magic that make it core. In my BM write I had “Endgame” that was moreso a set of talents that to unlock them you had to complete complex and difficult rituals that could have slight variance but offered countless lines of rp if done right, for a change to an ability or access to something. I was quite proud of it, and from what I gathered in total it was quite liked. 

[saint swag 2437]

no end games return to athera and prior era lore