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Moderating Conflict & When Do I File A Modreq


Telanir
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45 minutes ago, Telanir said:
    • Don’t pause roleplay since that impedes the flow of storytelling which would otherwise make for an engaging experience.
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Make this its own rule in big bold letters, please.

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12 minutes ago, Harrison said:

you signed up to solve issues on the server as a mod and you have the tools to quickly find out about a situation halfway through wtf are you even talking about man

 

It’s a cultural problem, and most of these situations are not resolved quickly. What happens in reality is a barrage of half-baked information as conflicting players perform theatrics to get their point to prevail over the other side’s own.

 

Mods do sign up to solve conflict, but they are not signing up to be the first solution to broker deals between players. This culture has done nothing but breed rule lawyering. The policy shift is taking a stab at eliminating that culture of an insta /modreq as the first solution to any problem.

 

11 minutes ago, Lutai said:

 

If they are waiting for a moderator, and now they can’t, they will just fully refuse to co-operate in the slightest. The only time players like this (a lot of people!) co-operate is when a moderator coerces them via the threat of a punishment. The reason for poor conflict culture is because of the terrible conflict rules, don’t try deflect it to be anything else.

 

You’re acting as if it’s unfair for a moderator to deal with that situation when it is exactly what they applied for. They can hold everything up and search through logs to find the answers.

 

I agree with you that there are more problems at the root, but rule lawyering and insta /modreqs are a fundamental problem that need addressing. Players were refusing to cooperate with one another as is. We should not cater to that type of culture; you should not require a Mod to broker a deal between groups every time a conflict arises.

 

This is the culture that the previous system had fostered. The first reaction at a perceived slight was to call a Mod, wait for one to answer, and then wait even longer for a decision made without all the information available.

 

What I hope for is a change in culture. Do you really need to call a Mod when somebody joins PvP late? Is it that big of a deal to you? Is it worth stalling out RP for 15-30 minutes, while waiting for a resolution? It’s my hope that the new system leads players to contemplate these questions. This might be boomer talking, but there was another culture surrounding conflict before this one become dominant. This culture cannot get any worse, so this is worth a try.

 

10 minutes ago, YPJgamer1999 said:

 

heavy lies the crown...

 

Seriously though, now what’s going to happen is conflicts will boil over for hours with no resolution. They’ll end in reports that stew for weeks longer where players get banned over issues that could have been resolved by a 30 minute moderator decision. I can’t imagine why we’d pressure the community to be more litigious than it already is.

 

Just because something is hard doesn’t mean it’s not worth doing.

 

This criticism is leveled more at response times, and I hope that we’re up to the task. There’s no way players could stew longer than they currently do.

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5 minutes ago, VonAulus said:

We can only remind our players to not be toxic through certain mechanisms. 

I feel like current staff forget that we have inboxes on the forums and you can message people there and ask them what’s up when they act up/etc. 

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8 minutes ago, VonAulus said:

We can only remind our players to not be toxic through certain mechanisms. I think this post points out that players have to also look at themselves as individuals in how they approach the server and the community. You have to treat others how you would like to be treated if you were in their situation. We will see if this works, it might not. The last couple systems were horrible failures and if this is something so different from that I think it is worth a shot. 

 

But it isn’t different at all.

 

This post, in essence, is saying ‘hey guys, be nice and sort problems out yourselves!’ which is obviously the ideal state of things but given our demographic, platform and just people in general that’s never going to happen. Like we can be positive and optimistic about trying something new but this just isn’t realistic and it’s a testament to the Administration being out of touch if people really think it’s viable.

 

Of course people should treat other people with respect. That goes without saying, but it also goes without saying that things will seldom play out that way especially in a heated situation and especially on a server with this kind of demographic

 

Like you cannot build a system on these glaring gaps in logic. You just can’t.

 

While you’re at it can you remove my warning point? I apologize for my grievous offence of calling this post ‘dumb’ and am sincerely glad this is now the new standard for which we hand out warnings

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telanir please stop trying to force the players to change sporadically and break behaviours they’ve learned from the last 6 years.

 

As I said before, I actually like the intent but why is your execution always so ham-fisted and forced instead of slowly weaving this mentality into the players over a few months

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1 minute ago, Xarkly said:

 

But it isn’t different at all.

 

This post, in essence, is saying ‘hey guys, be nice and sort problems out yourselves!’ which is obviously the ideal state of things but given our demographic, platform and just people in general that’s never going to happen. Like we can be positive and optimistic about trying something new but this just isn’t realistic and it’s a testament to the Administration being out of touch if people really think it’s viable.

 

Of course people should treat other people with respect. That goes without saying, but it also goes without saying that things will seldom play out that way especially in a heated situation and especially on a server with this kind of demographic

 

Like you cannot build a system on these glaring gaps in logic. You just can’t.

 

While you’re at it can you remove my warning post? I apologize for my grievous offence of calling this post ‘dumb’ and am sincerely glad this is now the new standard for which we hand out warnings

 

That is not what the post is saying in essence. What the Administration sees is that the system of /modreq reporting was unsustainable. We’re not saying be nice, we’re saying that you need to try and solve things without immediately calling Mods to do it for you. That is fundamentally different from what you’re arguing.

 

It is naive to assume this will solve every problem of conflict on the server, but that is not the intention. The intention is to slow down the process, and make players contemplate the necessity of using Mods to broker conflict, and whether obstinacy is the right solution after all. Go through with the RP/PvP, settle down, and make a report afterwards if you deem it necessary. The demographic problem is a new one; it has not always been this way, and the intention is to eliminate the culture of lawyering as it stands.

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29 minutes ago, rukio said:

UFts6qt.pngTo nit-pick a bit, I haven’t seen you involved in day to day conflicts recently so I feel like you’re a bit out of touch on it. I think there would be fewer issues w/ conflict etc if we did actually add more mods who are conflict based, esp. pvp mods, instead of mods who are higher pexed CT. 

Just gonna lol at your accusation here because its probably one of the dumber things you’ve said. “Hey you know that guy with like 3k hours, multiple nation led, and multiple wars led and fought. Lets take his inactivity as a point of ignorance on conflict even though he wakes up to 200 pms about every minor fight daily. ?

 

no good conflict mod is going to be accepted or apply. More elf mods isn’t going to help with moderating conflict. Silver couldn’t do it. No one currently on the team can or will. 

17 minutes ago, Lutai said:

 

Isn’t your go-to response to people always just “Cool.” or “Cool man!” or some other cold, uncaring and/or robotic response? Is that how you want to be treated when you deal with situations?

 

Change should come from the top, you should set an example not be condescending to most players you interact with.

 

?

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In a case where no body can agree and it leads to a player report rather than a solution, does this permit combat logging/leaving the situation so that people who actually want to enjoy their roleplay don’t have to be held up for 30+ minutes over something insignificant?

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1 minute ago, Lutai said:

 

But what if the RP/PVP is important, lets say a capture of a leader – or an important skirmish. Players would rather it be handled and allowed to play out fairly, than lets say if the sides turned from 20v20 to 20 v 50 because a large meta-rally joined post-pvp, and then as a result of this a leader was captured & promptly killed.

 

The situation happened and a lot of RP around it could happen, but it’ll all be voided & punishments will be handed out in a few weeks time? Most players wouldn’t push for punishment and would just want a moderator to send the rule-breakers away to maintain a fair fight.

 

This system is so idealistic it hurts, because its unreasonable to be enacted in anything that will slightly resemble fair or efficient.

 

Simply put, that is not a situation that requires an immediate solution. When it comes to a situation as important as the capture of a leader, I don’t imagine the reports would take long, but that’s on the Mods to keep up with the work.

 

Situations of large scale, like massive rallies and battles, are exactly the types of conflict that I’ve been talking about. Stalling 70 players from action while one GM figures out whether or not the other side meta-rallied does nothing but incense both sides (in practice) and cause them both to simply try and win over the Mod’s opinion in messages. It’s not a good thing to send a Mod into a massive conflict midway through to pause everything while it’s happening. Just let it happen, and deal with the facts afterwards. It’s a game, and it shouldn’t crutch on your ability to lawyer.

 

If it’s later discovered the other side meta-rallied (via player provided proof) bans are delivered and the RP voided. But when presented with all the facts and information in a cooler environment, with both sides readily able to provide detailed proof of their accusations or defenses, the Mod is able to make a better decision.

 

It’s idealistic, but once again, the culture couldn’t get any worse. I still believe it’s worth a shot.

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4 minutes ago, Vaynth said:

In a case where no body can agree and it leads to a player report rather than a solution, does this permit combat logging/leaving the situation so that people who actually want to enjoy their roleplay don’t have to be held up for 30+ minutes over something insignificant?

 

If you absolutely cannot agree on what to do and it devolves then sometimes there is no choice. That is keeping in mind that you risk a ban but if you have a good reason and it is clearly going nowhere then you are in the clear. If you've been bickering and arguing endlessly then just drop it and make a report.

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6 hours ago, Hunwald said:

This criticism is leveled more at response times, and I hope that we’re up to the task. There’s no way players could stew longer than they currently do.

 

There’s also the fact that ban reports encourage reprisals instead of solutions. I have been here for years; I can count the number of times a ban report has improved a situation on my fingers. 

 

The one upside to actually going in and moderating as situations happen is you can present a real solution. In silly pvp disputes a ban doesn’t satisfy the aggrieved party and it doesn’t teach the offender anything. 

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Yikes. I don’t even think this warrants a conversation due to how terrible this idea is. If you’ve played on the server for more than an hour, much less being a moderator or an admin, you’ll know people don’t compromise on this server unless a blue tag tells them what to do. It doesn’t happen now, and will likely never happen between certain player bases. If the issue is as you say it is, that on-site moderation isn’t efficient currently, this is not the solution. You might think this idea ‘encourages wholesome civility between the community’ but it just doesn’t. If anything, it incents people to stay with their little community of people and go out of their way to not interact with certain people. 

 

Edit because I'm dumb and didn't put this – The idea of ‘compromise and working together’ is what the current war rules were based on. It didn’t work.

Edited by BardMainHere
forgot to add the end part.
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I agree with most of what Telanir said and like these changes. Encouraging players to report others who break rules is good. These changes will also give moderators more time to allocate towards improving other parts of the server.

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2 hours ago, BardMainHere said:

Edit because I'm dumb and didn't put this – The idea of ‘compromise and working together’ is what the current war rules were based on. It didn’t work.

 

Disagree with this conceit – it’s not that “compromise and working together” doesn’t work, it’s that “compromise and working together” aren’t a replacement for a moderation team. Ever since Punisher there’s been a slow dialing back of mod team responsibilities. Exactly the opposite of what needed to happen when we got rid of a bunch of rules.

 

A system based on compromise would work if someone was there to actually arbitrate these disputes. This requires putting some faith in the moderators and their decisions (and maybe giving the Moderation team some authority instead of railroading them into these ridiculous Chairman decisions?)

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2 hours ago, BardMainHere said:

Yikes. I don’t even think this warrants a conversation due to how terrible this idea is. If you’ve played on the server for more than an hour, much less being a moderator or an admin, you’ll know people don’t compromise on this server unless a blue tag tells them what to do. It doesn’t happen now, and will likely never happen between certain player bases. If the issue is as you say it is, that on-site moderation isn’t efficient currently, this is not the solution. You might think this idea ‘encourages wholesome civility between the community’ but it just doesn’t. If anything, it incents people to stay with their little community of people and go out of their way to not interact with certain people. 

 

Edit because I'm dumb and didn't put this – The idea of ‘compromise and working together’ is what the current war rules were based on. It didn’t work.


The very fact that the server is as you say it is speaks the nature of the problem, and why this may be used to address it. It is a problem of entitlement. Mods should not have to be called at the very first instant because of total obstinacy. 
 

If a player has flagrantly broke the rules, and refuses to compromise or makeup for this, inform them they’ll be reported. Finish the RP/PvP and do it if you find it necessary.

 

Narthok brought up a culture of self-policing; that’s what we should be working towards. It’s idealistic, but it’s better than what we have now. 

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