[Completed]-=- The Ban Epidemic -=-

[HadvarAvMitteland 557]

Last night, a ban report which was submitted roughly 3-4 weeks ago was responded to. This ban report was from a Princess of Helena who was banditted within her own Church. Me and Ed (Rayvnair) entered Helena around mid-day, looking for some Orenians to kill (Due to the obvious war). We found a man of the cloth and a Princess within the Church. This being a perfect opportunity to get some action, we pounced on them. I provided pretty poor CRP to the Princess, acting to slice off her head. However, she logged off at this point, screenshotting my emotes and sending them to the Forum banlist. She infarcted the rules and got me in trouble for it. VonAulus (Grool) decided to investigate this ban report, 3 or 4 weeks after it was submitted, perfect time to get me banned just before my Christmas break. I feel this was disgusting and the ban report should have been failed anyways as not many crimes were committed against LoTC rules, especially considering I was a new player learning the ropes. I have reached out to members of the GM team, members of the community team and my own friends (some enemies) on LoTC and no one has told me I’m in the wrong. After this RP was conducted, guards came and guard defaulted me and Ed, killing us both via execution. This I feel was sufficient to the RP, the minas we robbed from the Priest should have been given back in compensation of my death, as well as the Princess being warned for combat logging (even if I did mess up my emotes, I was new, she could have just /modreqed not left). A discord server for ban appeal systems has been put up by Nozgoth: https://discord.gg/4gHE4U

 

If you wish to support me in my appeal, please comment on your experiences on LoTC with me and +1 this post to show my change to the Admin team. I feel like I have grown a lot in my RP knowledge and how to properly do villainy RP in the last 3-4 weeks, therefore leading to this ban report being pretty inaccurate. I am a believer of having single punishments for events, me dying to an execution, losing all my stuff and even being warned by GM’s over my actions was enough punishment for the “crime” committed (even if the RP should have been voided due to the logging). I think it is disgusting how Grool responded to me in discord messages, taking hours to reply to me and dismissing my points whenever I made them. In a ban report, including appeals made, both parties should be able to speak their mind and at least attempt to get their stories across. This was not an opportunity given to me, which is most displeasing. 

 

In terms of courtesy, I was given zero notice on this ban, logging in this morning to no messages, to find I could not get onto the server to run RP for a group called, Lorraine, which I am RPly invested into (again proving my point that my RP is very high quality now). I was also given zero evidence until I asked for it, I was given poor customer service from an Admin who dismissed my story entirely and pretty much ignored me on the whole.

 

Additionally, I would like to say I offered a different route, offering to give 1k minas to the Priest as compensation if I upset him (I must have only robbed him for 200 minas or something and I was executed so I only kept half of it) and a formal apology letter to the girl involved. The Admin’s response was, “The apology letter would not be a sorry letter, but one to save you from being banned,” However I am always apologetic, especially if I’ve actually upset someone enough to ban report me for something. Most people would hate on the ban reporter in this situation, I feel I am being nicer than the mass majority, offering the Priest a significant amount of minas too!

 

I have three things I wish to request from the people who run LoTC:

1. Let me have an immediate appeal, discussing with the people involved, witnesses and people providing proof of me changing and growing on the server.

2. I wish to discuss my appeal with a new member of the Admin team as I feel I am being discriminated upon due to not being Orenian.

3. All future ban reports for players are discussed with the player prior to the ban (as it says in the terms of conduct for bans) and evidence should be provided to me prior to the ban. This includes a conversation with the GM/Admin as well as the person who ban reported the prosecutor. 

 

Screenshots have been provided below, showing the way I was treated and dismissed during this process.

 

To conclude, the RP should have been voided from the Princess logging off, I got executed, warned by mods to not do what I did again, even though the logger went free of charge and this situation was sorted a month ago, it should not be being sorted a day before Christmas break.

 

Signed,

 

Stefan_Onfroi of Lorraine

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by Stefan_Onfroi

[Mik- 170]

+1

 

Staff behavior like this is the only thing that has ever truly prevented me from enjoying the server, the fact that staff are allowed to participate in conflict and simultaneously provide rulings to ban players on opposing factions eternally baffles me. The absolute pre-disposed vitriol the Admin approached you with is disgusting. This is especially disconcerting because you, Swifty_Sam, were a new player on LOTC (and still are just a month or so new as of this post).   

 

Edit: Additionally, the fact that an appeal must wait to be submitted many weeks after a potentially unscrupulous ban report is delivered only serves to enable staff to continue to commit potentially corrupt practices. This wouldn’t be a problem if there was ANY semblance of internal accountability among staff, but there is none to be found. 

Edited December 20, 2019 by Mikerino

[Cobbler 613]

The fact that the case is being brought up after being given a punishment is absurd. You were given a warning and your character was executed in game. If there isn’t any evidence of an incident coming up after that then you should be unbanned. Not to mention why is someone like Grool handling this case? He plays persona’s in the Oren Faction, which is an enemy to the one that Stefan is in. Kind of disgusting that this sort of thing is happening so close to Christmas break as well.

I know I am biased as someone within the AIS faction though I wouldn’t want something like this to happen to someone in the Oren faction. It’s unfair, unjust, and terrible timing. He can’t even put in an appeal for another two weeks, which is passed Christmas into January. Once he is able to appeal he will one hundred percent be unbanned due to this being a ludicrous case in the first place. Extremely disappointed.

[RoamingRonin 619]

This is nonsense. There should be major changes to the staff and ban system. Right now it is embarrassing. 

[WrathOfQuacken 559]

I've had a fair few experiences with Stefan. He has provided me with quality RP more than once, even in banditry encounters. On top of that, he was sound OOCly and made me feel welcome into his community. I have recently joined a faction in which Stefan was in. Understandably, I was sheepish and anxious OOCly as I was around people that I had little experiences with. However, Stefan has welcomed me in and treated me with respect and acceptance. Despite being new to the server, he is outgoing and friendly, even if does take part in banditry.

 

I agree with Grool that RP shouldn't consist of "slashing, robbing and villany". But I would argue that his statement is narrow-minded at best. I have seen much worse acts of villany that went unpunished and no one ever told them how they should RP. On top of that, he clearly hasn't engaged with Stefan in RP as I did. He taught newer players how to CRP properly and helped us bond and form relationships with other members of the factions. This is far from slashing and robbing.

 

On top of everything, seeing him punished AFTER he was already warned for it is completely unIrish and unethical. I get that staff are not robots, but this is the kind of behaviour that truly ruins the experience on others. 

 

   ~32_IrishCounties.

The North belongs to the Irish.

[monkeypoacher 6993]

imo grool made the ban sound dodgy by adding stuff about “immediately robbing and killing” but really you were banned because you were meme rping, you had a history of meme rping, and it finally caught up to you when you meme rp’d in front of a mod

[ScreamingDingo 16792]

deserved tbf

[HadvarAvMitteland 557]

1 minute ago, YPJgamer1999 said:

imo grool made the ban sound dodgy by adding stuff about “immediately robbing and killing” but really you were banned because you were meme rping, you had a history of meme rping, and it finally caught up to you when you meme rp’d in front of a mod

I didn’t meme rp, the whole RP was to kill enemies of Ruswick (when I was in Rus)

[Cobbler 613]

1 minute ago, YPJgamer1999 said:

imo grool made the ban sound dodgy by adding stuff about “immediately robbing and killing” but really you were banned because you were meme rping, you had a history of meme rping, and it finally caught up to you when you meme rp’d in front of a mod

You understand that he was warned for the incident right? He received his punishment for what he did. The fact that it was revisited is absurd if they don’t have evidence of an incident after that.

[monkeypoacher 6993]

Just now, Arundlt said:

You understand that he was warned for the incident right? He received his punishment for what he did. The fact that it was revisited is absurd if they don’t have evidence of an incident after that.

 

are the admins not allowed to reconsider their decisions?

[HadvarAvMitteland 557]

Just now, YPJgamer1999 said:

 

are the admins not allowed to reconsider their decisions?

Considering it was meant to be handled by Community team and Game moderation teams, the world edit team took a case they aren’t directly involved in. This was openly admitted in DMs.

[SophiaTsu 185]

come back or else

[Cobbler 613]

Just now, YPJgamer1999 said:

 

are the admins not allowed to reconsider their decisions?

Wasn’t even the admins as you can read from the screenshots, it’s a general moderation ban. In a normal setting, a case isn’t revisited unless there is evidence of another incident. If someone commits theft he is brought to court and given a punishment, whether it be community service, a fine, etc. The case isn’t revisited after for no reason. The case however can be brought back if he commits another crime, which Stefan hasn’t done. Stefan has done nothing but show more and new RP.

[monkeypoacher 6993]

2 minutes ago, Stefan_Onfroi said:

Considering it was meant to be handled by Community team and Game moderation teams, the world edit team took a case they aren’t directly involved in. This was openly admitted in DMs.

 

there is still no moderation admin. the world and community admins are just about equally qualified to handle it. considering how decisions are made on this server there’s no way there wasn’t already an admin consensus on your ban.

[WrathOfQuacken 559]

10 minutes ago, YPJgamer1999 said:

 

are the admins not allowed to reconsider their decisions?

If the cops let you off with a warning, can they stop by your house a week after and take you in for a couple of weeks even if you didn't do anything and the first time she just fell?