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Your View - Firearms on LotC


Archipelego
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Your View - Firearms on LotC  

482 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you believe in roleplay firearms have a place on Lotc?

    • Yes (Comment your reasoning down below.)
      223
    • No (Comment your reasoning down below.)
      258


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The server is labelled fantasy roleplay.

Why take away the aspect that this server was built on, to add weapons that will ultimately lead to both the powergame and downfall of roleplay on the server? I see comments specifically about how they have the same functionality as crossbows, yet that doesn’t stop anyone from still powergaming. If guns were added to the server, I suggest making sure that players know how to use the weapon correctly in roleplay, and actually read up on it. 

 

I don’t see where firearms fit onto the server, it seems more like a more modern-medieval push onto the server by the human players on the server. Personally, I don’t think that this addition would spice rp, other than add another factor to worry about a /modreq for. I’ve never even seen a reason for crossbows to be on the server originally, and I don’t think it should’ve scurried past the techlock.

 

Now I understand that this is the ‘human’s form of magic’ or that ‘technology always will make its advances somewhere, and this likely was the discovery of someone who was messing with metals and an ore like boomsteel.

 

If firearms were added to the server, I would like to see a way to make sure you know which players have the weapons on them in roleplay. It would only make sense that they aren’t so widespread, and a select few had them on the server so they wouldn’t fall in the hands of someone who won’t use it correctly. (I mean, having at least 15 higher ups in a military carrying them around, not an entire military with rifles and berettas ready to kill anyone who stands in their way). I propose an application of sorts, like a CA or an MA. This will help keep track of who uses these weapons, and you are able to prove that your persona got it through crafting or handed down from someone with a withstanding CA or MA. 

 

This is a weird subject to talk about on the server, and I am glad there’s a forum to argue about why they should, or why not should be added to the server.

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Just now, argonian said:

if we’re speaking mechanically, crossbows already allow pre-load

 

if we’re speaking in CRP, you just ban pre-loading as powergaming the same way we banned pre-loading for crossbows waaaay back in 2012

 

people just want muskets and stuff for flavour. mechanically they should be represented as crossbows and therefore function the same as them. in CRP they should be given strict rules to make them basically the same as crossbows are in CRP right now. then they can co-exist with swords and other weapons the same way they do in world of warcraft and warhammer. 

Not speaking mechanically because lets face it most mechanical combat on this server is dead and its just gonna continue to die due to the server instability. The only thing that matters in this debate is CRP, since that is basically the only way conflict will occur from now on. I already stated my position of just put some rules and buff magic a bit because despite your comment about “Sole Elven Mage”, as far as I can see Magic is absolutely gimped, but at the same time I would like the standard of magic to be raised to make magic magical.

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all the people saying ‘guns cant exist in fantasy’ have an extremely slim view of what fantasy can entail

 

the reason guns are bad is literally because i dont trust the mod team to take an active and smart way at balancing the system for it

 

anyone remember ggt abusing medeusculors (the magic guns) before and just causing the entire server to go into chaos as people did 1 shot drive bys

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1 minute ago, Epistile said:

I’ve never even seen a reason for crossbows to be on the server originally, and I don’t think it should’ve scurried past the techlock.

Are you for real? People have literally been RP’ing crossbows since day one of the server. 

 

You guys are seriously going around talking about how we’re “ruining the theme” of the server, and then you complain about things that have been part of the server far longer than you have. 

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If you don’t want firearms, you don’t have to use them.

 

We can easily make sure any combat is nerfed in the same way we nerf magic usage through specific emotes and power levels.

 

It’s fun RP for the groups that want to use them. It’s flavor RP, exciting and new. 

 

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My Opinion:
I believe extending the techlock to include cannons, flintlocks, steam engines, and possibly grenades would definitely be beneficial to the server and add roleplay to the server. A solution to stop technology from getting out of hand is to just stick the techlock a little bit further out. In other words, “you can now move 5 feet forward, but we are stopping it there”. If you can techlock once, you could always do it again and stop us from getting high tech vehicles or nuclear bombs.

 

More roleplay options for growth on LoTC:
Imagine the roleplay opportunities that people could have where they have to study this strange new material, roll for chances to experiment and see what makes it tick, the weapons start out crude and backfire often, then they start getting more sophisticated as we play with the idea more. We could techlock before we get them sophisticated until we figure out how much further we would like to go. Event team members could have more options to create events without having to solely rely on magic or bandit encounters

Make Guns CRP and Not a Mechanic:
A big argument I have heard is people getting this mechanically implemented in the server which in my opinion would be too time costly and take efforts away from more important things needed on the server. The best option would be to be able to use it in CRP and have a specified group or person that would produce these items that have been approved . Another option would be to have only Event Team Members cautiously distribute small rewards like a bag of 5 musketballs, so the player would have only 5 opportunities to use the 5 musketballs and on top of that have to roll for it to not backfire on you. 

TL;DR
Lets move the techlock a bit further then put it down again for a few new technologies. If you are able to place the techlock once, you can do it again and wait another 5 years before moving it again.
It would create roleplay for people, create more freedom for the event team members, and could be a new fresh experience for the server.
It should not be implemented as a mechanic, but it should be a heavily monitored CRP item. Items should be difficult and require a high roll to achieve the expected outcome.

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Gonna comment one more time for another reason instead of just editing it. Personally, it’s already bad enough with people wearings wigs on the fantasy medieval RP server and bringing factories around. I DO NOT wanna see people with wigs doing firing lines. Also, this will just be another plugin that may lead the server being more lag and etc. The people that mostly wants the guns/muskets are the Crownlands in Oren because they’re the only ones going with the wigs, factories, and etc. 

 

I’ve been playing on this server since 2013, and we seriously don’t need guns. Why ruin the servers main goal of it being a fantasy medieval roleplay server because people thinks the LoTC years are IRL? The worst part about this is once the server years hi the 1900s to 2000s people will be asking for machine guns, cars, and etc. People has been asking for guns for years and the Admins always said no. Now since it has gathered more momentum and being shoved in your faces once more you’re slowly starting to bend your backbone on it. My recommendation will be stick to what server is meant to be and say NO to guns.

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1 minute ago, BenevolentManacles said:

If you don’t want firearms, you don’t have to use them.

 

We can easily make sure any combat is nerfed in the same way we nerf magic usage through specific emotes and power levels.

 

It’s fun RP for the groups that want to use them. It’s flavor RP, exciting and new. 

 

really poor argument, as the people who dont want them can choose not to use them, but cant choose to not interact with the ones pointed at them

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1 minute ago, Will (TauFirewarrior) said:

Not speaking mechanically because lets face it most mechanical combat on this server is dead and its just gonna continue to die due to the server instability. The only thing that matters in this debate is CRP, since that is basically the only way conflict will occur from now on.

That’s just not true and it shows that you’re in a bubble. Human nations, and the Orcs too I’m sure, still regularly have PVP tourneys and events – almost daily. Every day there’s a raid somewhere that’s settled by PVP. Every day there’s a fight in Helena – and many of those end in PVP even now. Even at the height of 1.14 chunk lag they did. 

 

1 minute ago, Will (TauFirewarrior) said:

I already stated my position of just put some rules and buff magic a bit because despite your comment about “Sole Elven Mage”, as far as I can see Magic is absolutely gimped, but at the same time I would like the standard of magic to be raised to make magic magical.

Ok agreed. 

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Just now, Harrison said:

really poor argument, as the people who dont want them can choose not to use them, but cant choose to not interact with the ones pointed at them

Same with magic tbh. The powergaming argument is incredibly stupid. If people powergame you report them like you do normally.

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Just now, ReveredOwl said:

Same with magic tbh. The powergaming argument is incredibly stupid. If people powergame you report them like you do normally.

yeah as ive said above multiple times i agree that its fine to add them

 

the only downside is that EVERYONE will want to use them because ‘’’’’OMG GUNS’’’’’’ and do gang gang drive by roleplay gonna be really epic

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I personally don’t like firearms but i’d also fight to the death for your right to have them if that’s what the server wants. That is the responsibility we take on as staff members. We are here to serve the community and to do right by them. That’s just my piece on it ?‍♂️

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To keep things short- Everybody says that firearms are on par with crossbows or arbalests, then they should just use one of those. The entire discussion boils down to a preference of server thematic if the topic of balance is obsolete. Given that the technology is simply non-magical then we shouldn’t hold it up to magics and the sort and say ‘If x community can have y magic then why can’t we have guns?’

Do firearms fit in with the medieval thematic that people know?

I’d say no, when you see movies or shows take place in a typical medieval setting you really don’t see guns. Lord of the Rings to start with, given that’s what new players expect when they begin. Game of Thrones. Robin Hood. Anything about the crusades or even King Arthur. A movie like The King (highly suggested). Even games like Mordhau or For Honor or Bannerlord or The Witcher don’t have any firearms afaik. Really the only game I see with firearms is Mount and Blade, which in their wiki they quickly compare them to being like the crossbow. 

I don’t think guns fit and hope not to see them implemented.

Spoiler

Though if they are added for some ungodly reason then they should be allowed to scale up according to who wields them, meaning that olog hand cannons? Yeah, they’re just cannons in hands.

 

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there have already been systems, player written systems, that have been used to rp firearms (though those people did get banned RIP yoppl and maly for your duel). these systems worked because they made sense irp, and can easily be moderated by anyone, players or gm team

 

the “this can be powergamed to ****” argument can be applied to everything on this server. you can (and people do) powergame crossbows. you can (and people do) powergame magic and medicine and swordplay and armor and parkour and exhaustion, etc etc

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I don’t believe the addition of firearms would actually disturb the “fantasy medieval” setting of our server. Firearms do not need to transform LoTC’s fantasy world in the way they transformed real-world history. Firearms do not need to be more powerful than magic, or elven archery, or whatever. Your group does not need to accept firearms. If you would like to roleplay a particular setting, there’s no reason that setting can’t exist somewhere on Arcas, just because someone somewhere else is roleplaying a powdered wig or a musket. 

 

Swap out “firearms” for any other technology and there’s the argument against the techlock. There’s no reason any given technology has to be roleplayed by the whole server. It’s much worse to force everyone to roleplay someone’s narrow conception of “fantasy medieval” than it is to let everyone have their own interpretation of it. Could you imagine the furor from certain players if their anachronistic medical roleplay was tech-locked, and they had to permakill their characters from minor wounds getting infected?

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