Jump to content

Your View - Firearms on LotC


Archipelego
 Share

Your View - Firearms on LotC  

482 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you believe in roleplay firearms have a place on Lotc?

    • Yes (Comment your reasoning down below.)
      223
    • No (Comment your reasoning down below.)
      258


Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, Shmeepicus said:

[laughs in this server isn’t wh40k, dungeons and dragons, or etc. etc.]

 

That being said, if we are comparing other fantasy settings let’s keep something in mind. Warhammer 40k is set 39,000 years ahead of ourselves in an IRL timeline, so comparing Wh40k to this server is beyond ridiculous.

He meant normal Warhammer 

 

And he didn’t say we were Warhammer, or D&D. He was responding to a post saying guns and fantasy don’t mix, so he provided examples where they do. You’re attacking him over a point he didn’t make. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, blackhand7 said:

I’d say no, for 2 main reasons.

 

Firstly, gun crp would be awful. It would boil down to emoting pointing, shooting, and then firing, rolling to see the result, and then doing that over and over again. Guns, especially of the flintlock variety that seems to be the most popular proposal right now, are far more powerful and deadly than either bows or crossbows. The common response to this from the pro-gun crowd is that we’ll just nerf them to be as powerful as crossbows, but I don’t really think that this is an adequate solution. For starters, it breaks immersion and makes no logical sense, because lead balls sent at breakneck speeds out of a barrell towards a target, (or in the case of a blunderbuss/shotgun dozens of them), would deal far more damage than a simple arrow fired from a bow, and it would be very hard to properly emote the damage caused by it without either making it ridiculously good or just subtracting from the weapon entirely. Second-off, the term crossbow is very vague, and can refer from anything to a very heavy and powerful siege crossbow to the lighter, less powerful versions, and I’d feel it would need to be clarified.

 

Secondly, I feel as big a thematic change as adding guns needs far more support (just going off of this poll) then it currently has. The main argument in favor of guns, as it currently stands, is to let people rp how they want and give them a theme that suits their purposes (That, and the time argument, which, IMO, should not be relevant. Its a fantasy medieval server, and we should not have cars and ak-47s a year from now, we should implement changes that fit with the theme/wants of the server and playerbase). But the fact of the matter is, that adding guns would bring about a huge thematic change to lotc, as almost everyone and their mothers would want to get their hands on them. If more than half of the server is not in favor of it, they should not be forced into complying with such a major shift as implementing guns would cause just because of a minority/slightly bigger other half. 

 

We arent going to have AK 47s or guns, we are talking early tech low scale matchlock/flintlock weapons of which would be EXACTLY the same as a crossbow in terms of damage if not less. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, argonian said:

He meant normal Warhammer 

 

And he didn’t say we were Warhammer, or D&D. He was responding to a post saying guns and fantasy don’t mix, so he provided examples where they do. You’re attacking him over a point he didn’t make. 


There is a very large difference between Warhammer Fantasy (what you are referring to) and Warhammer 40k. Yes, Warhammer Fantasy has muskets but they are limited to certain races. (The Dwarves). I feel like what the above player (blackhand) said is the same way I feel. If the grand majority of the server doesn’t want a change as large as this.. as introducing guns would vastly change the way we can roleplay and such, then the changes shouldn’t be implemented. That’s just my two cents, I’m not attacking Harold but they should be a tad more precise in their arguments as Warhammer Fantasy and 40k are two entirely different things. 40k has space marines, Fantasy has Skaven, Lizardmen, Beastmen, among other various creatures. They are not related.

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Taketheshot said:

We arent going to have AK 47s or guns, we are talking early tech low scale matchlock/flintlock weapons of which would be EXACTLY the same as a crossbow in terms of damage if not less. 

This video is a good showcase as to their relative powers. As you can see, the matchlock rifle (Not even a flintlock one) is far more effective than the crossbow or bow

Edited by blackhand7
Link to post
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, blackhand7 said:

I’d say no, for 2 main reasons.

 

Firstly, gun crp would be awful. It would boil down to emoting pointing, shooting, and then firing, rolling to see the result, and then doing that over and over again. Guns, especially of the flintlock variety that seems to be the most popular proposal right now, are far more powerful and deadly than either bows or crossbows. The common response to this from the pro-gun crowd is that we’ll just nerf them to be as powerful as crossbows, but I don’t really think that this is an adequate solution.

There are a hell of a lot more steps to firing a matchlock than pointing and shooting lmao.

 

Quote

For starters, it breaks immersion and makes no logical sense, because lead balls sent at breakneck speeds out of a barrell towards a target, (or in the case of a blunderbuss/shotgun dozens of them), would deal far more damage than a simple arrow fired from a bow.

If either hits you in a vital, you’re probably dead unless some mage saves you. I guess a non-magical doctor would have an easier time tearing a crossbow bolt out of you than digging up a bullet, but that’s about it for how it affects lethality. Untreated, you die from both so it doesn’t make a different. 

 

2 minutes ago, Shmeepicus said:


There is a very large difference between Warhammer Fantasy (what you are referring to) and Warhammer 40k.

Well aware. He clearly meant the former since he was referring to medieval fantasy settings with guns. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why not cannons? I do not like the ideas of guns on LoTC because there are a lot more creative ways to make ranged attacks then just pushing us forward technological eras to make it more ‘interesting’. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, blackhand7 said:

 

You are quoting a video using a small scale crossbow nothing like the ones used on the server, a heavy arablest would routinely pierce plate and mail such as those used on the server, the point you are making is not only flawed but embroiled in false sentiment, the lore proposed shows muskets being exactly the same if not WEAKER than crossbows on the server. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

They only have a place if the rules surrounding handheld firearms, (what they can do, how many emotes per shot, and how accurate the shots) are very defined and clear. Otherwise you’re gonna get Indiana Jones with 12 preloaded pistols and a belief that gun=1 shot to a guy in plate. gunpowder should also be an extremely rare commodity worthy of lt sigs, hell just have it be boomsteel powder and regulate it like you would any other rare commodity.

giphy.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites

yes. i’d like to see guns. i don’t see why we should lock down and deny the narratives of what seems to be almost half of the server.

as i keep stating over and over and over. LoTC is not a ‘medieval’ fantasy server. it’s simply a fantasy server, and one that is capable of exploring mulpile different period in time. like... we have people RPing vikings, and people RPing communist victorian/edwardian **** (haelun’or). allowing guns would be an AWSOME implementation, it’d be simple. place a restriction on them to be flint lock weapons or a fuse (like REALLY old guns)

as for the “no, this is based on lord of the rings.” argument, i’d like to point my finger at Gandalf’s fireworks. while they are not explicitly stated to be gunpowder, they obviously are. if you don’t want to do gun rp then don’t do it, distance yourself from it. it’s what i do with extremist religions and i barely notice them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, blackhand7 said:

 

 

As someone who practices archery, I’d just like to point out that the people using those bows are not only not doing a full draw, but they are using improper techniques for doing so. I don’t recall the last time I saw someone use four fingers to draw an arrow. On top of this, they're using the wrong type of arrowhead (not ones designed for penetrating armor, which were used), and bows with draw weights that are most likely between 70 to 160 pounds lighter than historical war bows.

Also that plate of armor looks to be stamped steel made out of modern rolled steel, which is uniform and does not have its thickness distributed so the most is at the front and the thinnest at the sides.

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, argonian said:

There are a hell of a lot more steps to firing a matchlock than pointing and shooting lmao

My point here is not that it isn’t an intricate or complex process, but that it’ll be repetitive. Theres no dodging and blocking, tumbling on the floor, etc... Its just doing the same motions again and again every crp until one person gets higher roles.

 

3 minutes ago, argonian said:

If either hits you in a vital, you’re probably dead unless some mage saves you. I guess a non-magical doctor would have an easier time tearing a crossbow bolt out of you than digging up a bullet, but that’s about it for how it affects lethality. Untreated, you die from both so it doesn’t make a different. 

But the question of how long it will take to kill you is important. A musket does far more damage, and can penetrate plate  a lot more effectively, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeGtPxLwkuk) as opposed to a bow or crossbow. Additionaly, unless they pierce a vital organ, arrows and bolts generally don’t kill on impact, because most of the damage they do is not derived from their speed, but from their pointy bit. A gun, on the other hand, derives its damage from its speed causing a shockwave in your body, which makes it far more deadly, regardless of where it hits.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Tbh, not letting us have basic flintlocks for duels is like blocking off any creation of MArts or enchantments or anything because it’s easily powergamed. It’s lame, nobody that would be affected by guns is in the communities arguing against them, and if I can’t use guns to pistol duel then really there’s no reason to live anymore.

 

Being serious, though, the slippery slope thing is dumb. We have to get everything approved by LT anyways – they can just put it through a trial phase and if it doesn’t work then say “ok, rolled back,” or if it does work but they don’t want it to go forward, they just peg the new tech lock there.

 

A world in which a mage can hit me with a tsunami or massive laser beam after five emotes but I can only shoot a crossbow bolt after three is hilariously unbalanced, and it’s a shame that we’re still having this argument instead of just giving it a chance.

Link to post
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Shmeepicus said:

 Yes, Warhammer Fantasy has muskets but they are limited to certain races. (The Dwarves)

Think you might be conflating an MMO flavour mechanic with the actual setting. The Empire have guns too. Anyway, the fact that WoW and Warhammer are able to balance races with guns with races without guns shows that you can have guns in a medieval fantasy setting without destroying it.

 

Also, like others have pointed out, there is literally nothing medieval about any of the other races’ RP. The fact that you use swords and bows, which were around for a hell of a long time before(and even after) the Middle Ages, doesn’t make you medieval at all. The only race who were ever committed to the medieval setting were the humans, and now only half of them are even vaguely medieval(vaguely because even groups like Haense who try and maintain more of a medieval aesthetic are still not medieval at all anymore in their government system, culture, etc.)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Please let me satisfy my craving for the complete 18th century roleplay experience that this server needs to continue to develop and improve upon. 

 

We’ve wanted to do pistol duels and **** for like five years and we’ve been held back by this crappy standard of races that don’t ever change at all and insist that we follow along with them in this stagnation. 

 

People just want to play differently, and this is something that a vocal community on the server and undoubtedly countless new players who are less vocal would enjoy greatly. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Ciaran said:

 

As someone who practices archery, I’d just like to point out that the people using those bows are not only not doing a full draw, but they are using improper techniques for doing so. I don’t recall the last time I saw someone use four fingers to draw an arrow. On top of this, they're using the wrong type of arrowhead (not ones designed for penetrating armor, which were used), and bows with draw weights that are most likely between 70 to 160 pounds lighter than historical war bows.

Also that plate of armor looks to be stamped steel made out of modern rolled steel, which is uniform and does not have its thickness distributed so the most is at the front and the thinnest at the sides.

This is true, and maybe the video was not the best all-encompasing model, but I’d say the point as to their relative power still stands. Additionally, it vastly outperformed the crossbow, which I believe, in my limited knowledge, was used correctly. Even looking at the real world, there is a reason as to why muskets and firearms replaced crossbows, which is because they are simply better at killing people and deal more damage, because they hurt people not with a pointy edge, but through the sheer speed in which the bullet rams into people.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...