Your View - Firearms on LotC

[BimboBudgie 32]

7 minutes ago, Scourgeoforder said:

-As previously mentioned, the potential for powergaming is too great. There is no way to counter a musket ball, and therefore a legitimate CRP encounter could and would never take place, as the fighters would be dead in minutes if not seconds of the fight beginning.

Honestly, I rarely see people actually using ranged weapons for CRP, I think it’s mostly ‘cause of the emotes it takes to load the damn things. A wall or maybe some thick fantasy shield could do the job of blocking a bullet, maybe.

[Harold 3239]

Just now, Taketheshot said:

See this is just exposing your points for what they are, petty childish remarks aiming to get a rise. 

 

No wonder you are of no importance to this server anymore. 

You can speak to the creators of the lore, we went into real depth on this beforehand and had days worth of discussion over it. I would have given all these valid points if the Orenian heavies weren’t out in force berating folks for saying what they think instead of what they want to hear. 
 

 

[Taketheshot 3834]

Aww **** dude you want to become a female elf?
no worries
our surgeons can do gender reassignment.

While you wait would you like to fire our laser gun from magic?

 

WAIT YOU WANT A MUSKET!??! ABSOLUTELY NOT! YOU FILTHY HEATHEN! THIS IS MEDIEVAL ROLEPLAY GET THE **** OFF THIS SERVER STUPID ORENIAN FUCKS!

[argonian 12837]

2 minutes ago, Scourgeoforder said:

I have fairly strong opinions and always will. This server is not the place for firearms or gunpowder based weaponry.

 

- My biggest concern, once you open the gates to modern technology there will be an increased push towards furthering the agenda of breaking the tech lock. That is to say, once we invent guns, it’s only a matter of time until we invent steam engines (which I believe we might already have a form of), electricity, etc. etc.

We already have railroads(and we’ve had them since 2011), and some forms of electricity(lights, etc.). The reason we don’t develop cars and planes and AK47s, the reason we didn’t before techlock was a thing, and the reason we won’t ever even if the techlock was completely abolished, is simply because you can’t represent those things in Minecraft. The things we can, we for the most part have already done(we even had flushing toilets and the like in 1300, although they never caught on). 

 

Matchlocks won’t ever develop into Kalashnikovs because that’s completely impossible to represent in Minecraft. The big pushers behind guns are humans who PVP for most of their conflicts regardless, so we’re not going to push for weapons that’d be completely impossible to represent in PVP.

 

2 minutes ago, Scourgeoforder said:

- It would render many lore items completely useless, magic being the biggest example of this. Firearms, overpowered as they are, would ruin the special guidelines in place to allow a character to become overpowered, so to speak. With magic you can effectively be as powerful as a man wielding a gun, but you have to go through hoops to make sure not all characters are able to just blow up anyone in a mile radius.

In CRP a matchlock would be barely stronger than a crossbow and much more unwieldy, as well as slower to use.

 

2 minutes ago, Scourgeoforder said:

-As previously mentioned, the potential for powergaming is too great. There is no way to counter a musket ball, and therefore a legitimate CRP encounter could and would never take place, as the fighters would be dead in minutes if not seconds of the fight beginning.

Same goes for crossbows, yet we’ve CRP’d with those just fine for almost a decade.

 

2 minutes ago, Scourgeoforder said:

-The overall feeling of the server would completely change. I see many places, specifically Oren/Helena, pushing for this colonial vibe, which I personally find dull and out of place, but that is a personal feeling, if I don’t wish to RP in the colonial area I will simply go somewhere like Morsgrad with a more medieval feel. The problem with introducing guns is that the medieval fantasy feel would be completely lost on the server, all corners would be affected by it and eventually forced to adopt it out of, at the very least, self preservation.

Look, I think it’s absolutely fair if someone just doesn’t want the kind of setting guns would create. I respect your opinion. The only thing I have an issue with, and I’m not saying you personally are doing this, is when people try to push that opinion as some sort of objective truth when they say the server’s always been “medieval fantasy”, when in reality it’s always had elements from a variety of different time periods, and only a portion of the server has ever actually taken the “medieval” part of that equation seriously at all. The same portion that are now largely pushing for guns, as it happens. 

[The King Of The Moon 5122]

Kinda wild how I’m constantly seeing people call the server “medieval” when no-one but humans have ever RPd feudalism or anything close to peasantry and middle ages culture, social hierarchies and politics. The very same thing that was criticised by the wider server as “boring game of thrones roleplay”.

Wilder still that that same group has RPly progressed beyond that for the mostpart since vailor and has had a closer RP culture to the late renaissance and early modernism, and now is being criticised by the wider server as “too modern”. 

The server isn’t medieval. It hasn’t been culturally close for at least 5 years now and the majority of people I see using this as an anti-gun argument seem to belong to elven, sutican, dwarven and druidic settlements which have never themselves been medieval. 

It’s laughable still that these same people are arguing LoTC shouldn’t ‘follow IRL progression’ but are basing their aesthetic rhetoric on the idea that we’re locked at a certain point of IRL history that has never truly been emulated... It’s not very well thought through.

[argonian 12837]

2 minutes ago, Harold said:

You can speak to the creators of the lore, we went into real depth on this beforehand and had days worth of discussion over it. I would have given all these valid points if the Orenian heavies weren’t out in force berating folks for saying what they think instead of what they want to hear. 

If you’re not going to post your many valid points out of protest, then don’t post at all. Not that hard. Everyone else is trying to actually debate here, you’re just piping up to yell about Oren every 2 seconds and adding nothing. But apparently that’s our fault, we prevented you from making your valid points. 

[RoamingRonin 619]

1 minute ago, The King Of The Moon said:

Kinda wild how I’m constantly seeing people call the server “medieval” when no-one but humans have ever RPd feudalism or anything close to peasantry and middle ages culture, social hierarchies and politics. The very same thing that was criticised by the wider server as “boring game of thrones roleplay”.

Wilder still that that same group has RPly progressed beyond that for the mostpart since vailor and has had a closer RP culture to the late renaissance and early modernism, and now is being criticised by the wider server as “too modern”. 

The server isn’t medieval. It hasn’t been culturally close for at least 5 years now and the majority of people I see using this as an anti-gun argument seem to belong to elven, sutican, dwarven and druidic settlements which have never themselves been medieval. 

It’s laughable still that these same people are arguing LoTC shouldn’t ‘follow IRL progression’ but are basing their aesthetic rhetoric on the idea that we’re locked at a certain point of IRL history that has never truly been emulated... It’s not very well thought through.

To be fair, I equate the entire server to boring GoT roleplay at this point, what with the stringent everything locks. 

2 minutes ago, argonian said:

If you’re not going to post your many valid points out of protest, then don’t post at all. Not that hard. Everyone else is trying to actually debate here, you’re just piping up to yell about Oren every 2 seconds and adding nothing. But apparently that’s our fault, we prevented you from making your valid points. 

The blatant Oren hating coming from him gives me VERY SOLID Kurt Eichenwald vibes. 

[Aengoth 2883]

39 minutes ago, Hiebe said:

Every time you grant the players a step they take a mile.

 

Example, thanium.

 

A material used to cool and for golem. Players walked around the redlines and make a nuke.

 

Dont add guns

using rare scenarios to justify not having something at all. by this logic catapults and trebs should be banned because MrGreene abused one to dig into a dwarven fort

[_Jandy_ 3189]

8 minutes ago, Taketheshot said:

Aww **** dude you want to become a female elf?
no worries
our surgeons can do gender reassignment.

While you wait would you like to fire our laser gun from magic?

 

WAIT YOU WANT A MUSKET!??! ABSOLUTELY NOT! YOU FILTHY HEATHEN! THIS IS MEDIEVAL ROLEPLAY GET THE **** OFF THIS SERVER STUPID ORENIAN FUCKS!

People dont want trannies or lasers either. The magic community isn’t a hivemind, magic users often disagree with each other and there are some who want to push magic to the extremes and some who dont.

[Qaz_The_Great 1189]

5 hours ago, Taketheshot said:

This has been posted time and time and time again, Firearms are ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT than crossbows in terms of use and form. The only thing firearms offer is increased roleplay flavor and yknow what? THAT IS A GOOD THING. We can have super elven mages who can control someones mind and warp time and space but firearms with the same function as a crossbow is too “out of place” get outta here with that BS.

 

You have a sect of players ready to adapt to this roleplay and are simply waiting for it, numerous times people have wrote astounding lore that makes sense and is well written.

 

Again let me say this out loud

 

A MUSKET HAS THE SAME POWERGAME POTENTIAL AS A CROSSBOW

A MUSKET HAS THE SAME POWERGAME POTENTIAL AS A CROSSBOW

A MUSKET HAS THE SAME POWERGAME POTENTIAL AS A CROSSBOW

 

If crossbows are not banned, nor should be firearms.

 

To all you out there whining and snivelling about ‘muh arpee!’ all i can say is there are a bunch of bleeding hearts around here that cant stand change in roleplay or to adapt to something that might be able to counter their special elven magic. All i can say is go on and bleed. 

Anyone who understands penetration, range, and production will say you’re wrong. Firearms are simply better than crossbows in all aspects, and are matched simply in the capacity of reload speed (approx 30 seconds). Not to mention that it would make melee weapons useless as Bayonets could fully replace most swords and such as it’d be a 4-5ft spear. I don’t magic RP because it is dumb, so it isn’t just magic role players who disagree with the implementation of firearms. Just because you say something over and over doesn’t make it true.

[RoamingRonin 619]

1 minute ago, Qaz_The_Great said:

Anyone who understands penetration, range, and production will say you’re wrong. Firearms are simply better than crossbows in all aspects, and are matched simply in the capacity of reload speed (approx 30 seconds). Not to mention that it would make melee weapons useless as Bayonets could fully replace most swords and such as it’d be a 4-5ft spear. I don’t magic RP because it is dumb, so it isn’t just magic role players who disagree with the implementation of firearms. Just because you say something over and over doesn’t make it true.

Except the part where crossbows are more accurate pound for pound and way quieter than a primitive rifle. And I can damn sure load a crossbow faster than a primitive rifle. 

[Taketheshot 3834]

5 minutes ago, Qaz_The_Great said:

Anyone who understands penetration, range, and production will say you’re wrong. Firearms are simply better than crossbows in all aspects, and are matched simply in the capacity of reload speed (approx 30 seconds). Not to mention that it would make melee weapons useless as Bayonets could fully replace most swords and such as it’d be a 4-5ft spear. I don’t magic RP because it is dumb, so it isn’t just magic role players who disagree with the implementation of firearms. Just because you say something over and over doesn’t make it true.

But historical firearms are not the firearms being proposed, the ones being proposed are simply reskined crossbows, heck even less powerful. 

This has been said about 30 times in this thread at least, these are NOT historical firearms, they will be THE SAME as crossbows. 

[blackhand7 191]

Just now, Taketheshot said:

This has been said about 30 times in this thread at least, these are NOT historical firearms, they will be THE SAME as crossbows. 

But how will this work? A crossbow hurts people by having a pointy bit at the end of its bolt, a musket by the speed at which the ball hits their target causing a shockwave. They’re fundamentally different weapons in terms of how they harm their target.

[Qaz_The_Great 1189]

1 minute ago, KunLunKungFu said:

Except the part where crossbows are more accurate pound for pound and way quieter than a primitive rifle. And I can damn sure load a crossbow faster than a primitive rifle. 

I have no clue where you’re getting accuracy from, rifles and such have 100% more range and when shot in vollys will be 100% more dangerous. The scale is in favor of firearms always and it is not fair or balanced. Likewise for crossbow loading speed you must also address the type of crossbow, most effective crossbows are required to be reset via crank or lever.

 

1 minute ago, Taketheshot said:

But historical firearms are not the firearms being proposed, the ones being proposed are simply reskined crossbows, heck even less powerful. 

This has been said about 30 times in this thread at least, these are NOT historical firearms, they will be THE SAME as crossbows.

You’re not thinking IRP, you’re thinking within the mechanics of Minecraft. Please not all points I have made prior as they still disprove your argument.

[AlphaMoist 1707]

13 minutes ago, Qaz_The_Great said:

Anyone who understands penetration, range, and production will say you’re wrong. Firearms are simply better than crossbows in all aspects, and are matched simply in the capacity of reload speed (approx 30 seconds). Not to mention that it would make melee weapons useless as Bayonets could fully replace most swords and such as it’d be a 4-5ft spear. I don’t magic RP because it is dumb, so it isn’t just magic role players who disagree with the implementation of firearms. Just because you say something over and over doesn’t make it true.

Except this is LOTC, so if you write in your lore “this musket is exactly like a crossbow,” then the musket will be exactly like a crossbow. Could also add no Bayonets as a redline, if that was really an issue. Guns on LOTC don’t have to be what guns are IRL or follow the same rules. This is a roleplay server. We can make **** up and play with it to a large degree.