Jump to content

Your View - Firearms on LotC


Archipelego
 Share

Your View - Firearms on LotC  

482 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you believe in roleplay firearms have a place on Lotc?

    • Yes (Comment your reasoning down below.)
      223
    • No (Comment your reasoning down below.)
      258


Recommended Posts

10 hours ago, Ciaran said:


The Adunians and I believe to some extent the Dwarves back in Anthos would perform drills involving the digging of trenches and construction of nests from which they’d shoot arbalests and repeater crossbows at their enemies, a tactic that was actually employed in a few battles at the time.

 

dwarves employed trench warfare complete with what essentially was the mc equivalent of a polygonal fortress

Link to post
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, TheNanMan2000 said:

Medieval weapons, excluding firearms, already provide a huge array of combat-styles and aesthetics for different cultures and people wanting to use a certain weapon for a certain job.  That’s what makes medieval fantasy so appealing, is the array of weapons that handle completely differently.  To give-in to the power creep of firearms is not only slowly paving a path to muskets becoming the standard weapon that everyone uses, which is extremely bland and boring, but is also pointless as we already have enough variety of weaponry. Not to mention how much more variety we have since we can use all these different types of magic

 

if crossbows don’t drown out every other weapon, it doesn’t make sense that matchlocks would. in pvp they’d be literally identical, and matchlocks have a number of drawbacks to make them far from ideal in CRP(namely, if you’re standing close enough that you’re in #rp range of the guys you’re fighting – which you basically always will be for obvious reasons – then you’re close enough that you’re going to get stabbed before you’ve had time to actually fire the gun). 

 

with that in mind, they’d only add to the variety, rather than diminish it 

 

19 hours ago, Jamyei said:

Sorry let me correct myself... the medievalish fantasy lotr vibe*. And how did you know that I did not refer to an earlier period in the 10 centures of the medieval period when I said medievalish vibe? At the end of the day, its down to preference to what part of medieval fantasy you enjoy rping, and I respect that. There’s no need to call me incognizant simply because I was less than imaculate with detail in my post, I just had a lot to do so I couldn’t write a lot. 

pick whatever century of the medieval era you like, and explain how literally any nation/culture/group in LOTC are like it at all. only humans were ever vaguely medieval, and they haven’t been for a long ass time. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, argonian said:

 

 

pick whatever century of the medieval era you like, and explain how literally any nation/culture/group in LOTC are like it at all. only humans were ever vaguely medieval, and they haven’t been for a long ass time. 

As I said, it’s down to preference, which is built from perception and experience. My perspective and experiences on LOTC have provided a relatively early medieval lotr fantasy vibe, which I enjoy, and as such, it is my preference for a ‘lotr early medieval fantasy’ feel. That is my personal opinion, and I understand it is not shared by others, but I think it’s fair to let people express their opinions on this topic, as this is the objective of the post after all. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don’t think they should. If you have a pre-loaded flintlock, even against a ready opponent, it would feasibly take one emote to draw and shoot, and being highly lethal. I saw something about Crossbows are already in, why not musket? But the thing with firearms is that they are concealable, faster projectile speed, and can deal more with armor because of their higher speed and lower surface area. They just seem to be OP, like why would anyone learn, say, evoc magic for combat when that takes multiple emotes, when you could just draw a gun and shoot, killing most people and certainly incapacitating nearly everything you draw on. I’d even think it could lead to less sword type RP, as it would just make more sense to use, train, and carry the superior weapon, effectively changing the general feel of RP on the server.

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BDanecker said:

I don’t think they should. If you have a pre-loaded flintlock, even against a ready opponent, it would feasibly take one emote to draw and shoot, and being highly lethal. I saw something about Crossbows are already in, why not musket? But the thing with firearms is that they are concealable, faster projectile speed, and can deal more with armor because of their higher speed and lower surface area. They just seem to be OP, like why would anyone learn, say, evoc magic for combat when that takes multiple emotes, when you could just draw a gun and shoot, killing most people and certainly incapacitating nearly everything you draw on. I’d even think it could lead to less sword type RP, as it would just make more sense to use, train, and carry the superior weapon, effectively changing the general feel of RP on the server.

I believe they have made it against the rules to have a pre-loaded firearm in the lore proposal, but cannot verify this. I too am worried about the concern brought out in the last sentence you’ve made, but I am sure someone who is pro guns on the server would argue that the guns aren’t that op since you can’t preload them yada yada so this wouldn’t be the case. I think it would have to be seen out in practice, as speculation can only go so far, however practice may still lead to that permanent change in rp if they are too op, which would still hurt the feel of the server.

I hope this indecisive paragraph did something lmao

Link to post
Share on other sites

If guns do make it through then I think people using guns should like glow or something. They did that with magic users while they cast why not with people holding guns-

Link to post
Share on other sites

On 4/19/2020 at 5:24 PM, Esterlen said:

 

Ryloth, I love you man, but this is one of the most pathetic arguments I ever hear about this topic. I’d rather people who are anti firearm just be honest and say ‘I personally don’t like them’ rather than try to wrap that fact in these pseudo-altruistic justifications.


The ‘theme’ of the server, or rather the world that people join the server to partake in, is almost entirely in the eye of the beholder. That is largely because the world of LotC has no consistent theme anymore, and it hasn’t since 2011. As a creative platform, people have gone so off in different directions that a unifying theme is practically non-existent. The idea that introducing gunpowder will upend some carefully curated ‘server theme’ is bizarre – it doesn’t exist! Everybody has a different idea of it and despite what some people would claim, there is no ‘orthodox’ theme. You can’t pin down something as abstract as that. 

 

People do largely what they want, according to what will motivate them to create and build. As a community, we tend to have this quasi-pluralistic ‘live and let live’ mentality towards different communities and player-bases. If they’re not affecting us, they do what they want. It doesn’t matter how ridiculous or ‘not on theme’ something is (Obviously there are general boundaries – boundaries which firearms are well and truly within!) – if you don't like it that much, you don’t engage with it. One of the things that upsets me the most about this debate is that this is a courtesy extended to every RP group on the server, no matter how objectively horrific, but is one that is never extended to people who want a different type of flavor through firearms in RP.

 

I don’t get a say over the fact that you role-play a bipedal, talking cat, no matter how much it might break my immersion or be misaligned with my view of the server theme. 

 

PS: I can name a dozen fantasy universes where firearms co-exist with elves, armor, swords, dwarves, magic, pixies etc. At this point, this is completely void. We know that all of these things can co-exist in a balanced world with firearms – almost more of them have firearms than don’t. So why are we beating this dead horse as opposed to tackling the substance of the matter? 

 

 

 

 

 


@Esterlen Sure, the ‘theme’ is in the eye of the beholder, but let’s be real – LoTC is named after LoTR and thematically meshes Elder Scrolls-LoTR.

Gunpowder weaponry is fine to an extent. I personally am perfectly fine with primitive rocket artillery, cannons, mortars, etc .. but I think there’s a fine threshold where guns should be disallowed. Small arms and cannons are two hugely different things, and the more you slip and allow people to carry around matchlock guns, the more likely it is you find someone stuffing a lead pipe with gunpowder and nails, and killing you with a rudimentary blunderbuss like we’re playing Rust. As Hanrahan describes it, you roll for damage at 2 blocks .. a blunderbuss, realistically, would kill you or cripple you at that range 20/20 times.

We can nerf guns all day, but that too lacks immersion. If guns are implemented I want to see people’s limbs blown off, weapon seizure and failure killing the user or dismembering them, instant 20/20 roll headshots – nerfing guns to put them in is just silly, and it should be viewed the same way as magic: if you’re nerfing it, should it really be implemented? You’re quite literally creating the “glass cannon” LT doesn’t like, but that’s beside the point.

What do we do when a serpentine cannon is built and rolled into Nauzica Square? That’s a medieval design, and eviscerates infantry. Case and point, it’d be a hell storm. 

 

Hmmmm... I wonder where he got the inspiration... - #179356074 ...

“I don’t get a say over the fact that you role-play a bipedal, talking cat, no matter how much it might break my immersion or be misaligned with my view of the server theme.”

This isn’t comparable at the end of the argument – guns are implemented to end characters and kill them: if something is implemented simply to, in a new way, kill a character (and that is its sole purpose) should it really be added? Probably not, unless it’s providing value otherwise. Weapons like small arms guns should not be allowed, while cannons should be allowed for events, warclaims, etc. Maybe a few early hand cannons could be added with LT approval like dwarven flamethrowers, but for everyone and their mother to have a musket? Honestly meh
 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes. More crude weapons for sure like sparking a flint on the gun to shoot it and the possibility of it not working. If this ends up being the case then bullet proof vests or some type of armor that reduces the damage of a bullet should be added as well. This could bring a bunch of new roleplay and events. IRL firearms were made around the 14th century so it isn’t too modern either. Gun stores and how guns are manufactured and bought would be an interesting thing to tackle as well, permits and all that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, McDanky said:

Yes. More crude weapons for sure like sparking a flint on the gun to shoot it and the possibility of it not working. If this ends up being the case then bullet proof vests or some type of armor that reduces the damage of a bullet should be added as well. This could bring a bunch of new roleplay and events. IRL firearms were made around the 14th century so it isn’t too modern either. Gun stores and how guns are manufactured and bought would be an interesting thing to tackle as well, permits and all that.

Bulletproof vests? You know, the invention from the 1960s? If guns are added, then they are most likely to be primitive, or at most muskets. Don’t think we’re at the level of bulletproof vests (Nor do I want us to be) mate.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m all for the idea of progression, but this is the wrong kind. Don’t get me wrong; in the end, I just don’t like the idea of guns on the server; but I’d like to explain why. Mainly, it’s the difference between the progression of the world, and the progression of the time period setting. Now, I love when progression happens in a world; be it political, geographical, or even technological. However, especially with fantasy medieval, I believe the technical has a cut-off point. Simply put: I don’t believe guns have a place in a world like this. Period. That moves from medieval, or in this case fantasy medieval, to the early modern age. The Early Modern Age, if you haven’t heard of it before, is a real term that begins right around when guns began to appear globally. It’s not only considered an entirely different age, but is different even within how humanity acts within it. The advent of guns changes everything; as the medieval setting’s beauty stems from its dependency on simple projectile weaponry and melee; from its armies, to its buildings, and even down to its culture and mindsets. Guns have no place in such a setting, and I’d at least prefer to keep the setting we have.

Edit: To be clear, I get they’ll be super primitive, entry level firearms. That doesn’t matter, though. Everything changes when an army can be armed with guns; and it just doesn’t have the same feeling to it.

Edited by VoidTheViolet
Clarification and a slight wording change.
Link to post
Share on other sites

I am egregiously inactive on the forums, with me never even updating my character list. The only aspect of my forums account I am proud of, is Ronald Weasley from Harry Potter consuming two drumsticks in tandem. Alas, I feel as though I am compelled by my civic duties as an LotC’er to provide commentary on such a matter. I am pro-gun, yet I comprehend and appreciate the arguments offered by those of anti-gun sentiment. Allow me to rebuke such arguments.
 

  1. The Potential For Guns To Be Powergamed: Virtually every pro-gun person I have had the pleasure of discussing this with, has resolved that guns ought to be reskinned crossbows- nothing more, nothing less. The same emote requirements for loading, the same velocity and speed, the same range and the same stopping power. Even if guns could aptly penetrate plate unlike a crossbow, we would happily accept a reduction in penetration in exchange for simply having guns implemented in a fair, balanced manner. The same attitude of compromise also extends to the concept of pre-loading. The reason for this is due to the fact all we desire, is to pursue a new flavor unexplored on the server thus far.
     
  2. Guns Have Already Been Tried (Medesculers): To compare our vision of guns to medesculers, is simply incorrect. Medesculers were far more unbalanced than a reskinned crossbow. Furthermore, they were made to only be accessible to and enjoyed by mage RP’ers- whereas we desire for firearms to be enjoyed by the masses. Our vision of guns is drastically different from that of Medesculers, and to treat the two as the same, would be flagrantly obtuse and unfair.
     
  3. Nobody Wants Them: If one looks at the poll attached to this thread, then it must be acknowledged that most do not want guns. However, it is hardly a landslide. 47 to 53 percent or 200 to 220 players. Just because anti-gun sentiments barely obtained a majority, does not mean the wants of 200 players should be neglected. Furthermore, the desire for guns is geographically distributed- human hubs such as Helena are pro-gun, while nonhuman hubs tend to be anti-gun. These two ideologies do not need to directly mingle, as they can remain in their own hubs. That separation-by-preference also extends to Canonist RP, Magic RP, Crime RP or any other sort of RP niche you may or may not enjoy. Why would a Sutican mage RP’er go to Oren?
     
  4. Guns Are Too Modern: The argument I see spawn in such debates constantly. To say that LotC is a rehashing of LotR by nature, and should always remain that way, is quite frankly narrow-minded. 200 players want LotC to have guns, for purely aesthetic reasons (refer to Point 1). So what we want to roleplay the colonial era with our powdered wigs and flintlock weapons? That is the flavor we want, and even if other communities disdain it, they do not need to actively engage said flavor (refer to Point 3). If Oren can tolerate mages casting spells in their cities, places such as Sutica or Aegrothond can tolerate people going into their cities with flintlocks.
     

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

Edited by _SuitAndTie_
Link to post
Share on other sites

You know, I see people bringing up how LotC is based or loosely inspired by LotR as an argument for not having guns, and yet even back when the server had only just opened its doors in 2011 dwarves and humans had cannons going on.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is reply number 420, keep posting lol

Link to post
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...