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-=- The Firearms Debate -=-


HadvarAvMitteland
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Hello there! It seems like I’ve been posting an awful lot recently, however this debate is strictly ooc ONLY and in my discord a lot of guys were concerned over this issue, so if you wish to participate I am more than willing to answer questions and debate in the comments down below.

 

The “techlock project” is a project where people are trying to find balanced tools to use within LoTC which has the same technology as the times it is based in. For example, firearms is the most recent topic that has been put up for debate. As shown below, the votes have been flooding in and it seems like the mass majority do not care for guns within LoTC.

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Personally, I feel guns do not have a place in LoTC. My reasons for this are as follows, please feel free to agree or disagree with backed-up points down below!

 

  1. Banditry/Raids: I feel as if LoTC for many years has been a hub for those who wish to participate in bandit roleplay (as far as my experiences have gone). If you are to bandit someone on the road, you can either rob them or fight them, depending on how they respond to your actions. If guns were introduced to LoTC, I feel like banditting people on the road would become far too easy, using hostages and holding people at gun-point is far more effective than crossbows. This will lead to an imbalance in the bandit-victim success rate, heavily favouring those who are committing crimes. Additionally, Cities will have a large advantage too. The current raid rules state that you must ONLY raid with three or less people, which means it is already difficult to pull off with success. With the addition of guns, it will become near-impossible, with the guards being able to default CRP and hold your party at gunpoint for as long as they wish, possibly increasing the rate of meta rallies coming and slowing down the roleplay that could be happening if they were all using less advanced technology.

 

  1. Larger scale fights: How can we moderate the use of guns in larger scale fights? Currently in LoTC there is a 10+ PvP default rule, however if you were to fight with 9 or less people it would become increasingly difficult to moderate the use of guns within the fights. Would we need to load the guns and use multiple emotes like we do with crossbows? Or can people just have loaded guns all the time, preparing for combat if needed. I feel this will increase the amount of modreqs that go up, leading to more power-gaming, toxicity, and just an overall poor roleplay experience for those involved.

 

  1. The “dodge” mechanic: How does one use this mechanic if there are bullets flying towards your head? For a long time, you are able to /roll or crp dodging attacks, with a larger disadvantage if you lose your roll or the mod/people involved deems your dodge unrealistic. Just like an Olog charging into a human, you would be instantly killed and out of the crp if you were to encounter someone with a firearm, which I feel ruins the whole combat experience entirely and can lead to poor quality roleplay.

 

Now I have expressed my final points, I would like to invite everyone who wishes to get involved to comment below and I’ll respond to you all. Troll/Toxic comments will just be ignored.

 

Thanks,

Swifty

Edited by HadvarAvMitteland
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this.

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I want guns on LOTC, and I don’t know why you sent this to me. 

 

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Just now, KunLunKungFu said:

I want guns on LOTC, and I don’t know why you sent this to me. 

 

What are your reasons for wanting guns KunLun? And I sent it to everyone incase they wished to participate, you don’t have to! ❤️

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2 minutes ago, HadvarAvMitteland said:

What are your reasons for wanting guns KunLun? And I sent it to everyone incase they wished to participate, you don’t have to! ❤️

Because it gives humans something to add to their repertoire, other than a government. I also don’t know why you still participate on the server issues, seeing as you’re effectively “retired” and banned. 

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2 minutes ago, KunLunKungFu said:

Because it gives humans something to add to their repertoire, other than a government. I also don’t know why you still participate on the server issues, seeing as you’re effectively “retired” and banned. 

LoTC interests me, and as I stated in the first few paragraphs, it was a debate in my discord server and this is a place for those who care to debate it freely. If you wish to not participate without pointing fingers or being toxic, please leave

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Hi Swifty,

Firstly, I believe this could of been posted in the original debate format, but nevertheless its not my place to moderate this. Therefore we should move onto your post.
 

7 minutes ago, HadvarAvMitteland said:

As shown below, the votes have been flooding in and it seems like the mass majority do not care for guns within LoTC.

unknown.png

 

 

I do not believe the swing of 16 people in your screen shot (14 swing now as I write this) is a ‘mass majority’. This is barely scraping a simple majority. While this shows that yes, almost half the server don’t want firearms, almost half the server does. Which means we must actually weigh up the arguements.

 

11 minutes ago, HadvarAvMitteland said:
  1. Banditry/Raids: I feel as if LoTC for many years has been a hub for those who wish to participate in bandit roleplay (as far as my experiences have gone). If you are to bandit someone on the road, you can either rob them or fight them, depending on how they respond to your actions. If guns were introduced to LoTC, I feel like banditting people on the road would become far too easy, using hostages and holding people at gun-point is far more effective than crossbows. This will lead to an imbalance in the bandit-victim success rate, heavily favouring those who are committing crimes. Additionally, Cities will have a large advantage too. The current raid rules state that you must ONLY raid with three or less people, which means it is already difficult to pull off with success. With the addition of guns, it will become near-impossible, with the guards being able to default CRP and hold your party at gunpoint for as long as they wish, possibly increasing the rate of meta rallies coming and slowing down the roleplay that could be happening if they were all using less advanced technology.


As mentioned in the main post, we aren’t asking for guns to be added as they would be seen in real life. Instead we wish for guns that are similar in power to crossbows. Also, banditry on the roads typically involves a group of people who are confident in winning the exchange. Therefore I don’t believe the use of firearms will change the balance of power on highwaymen to regular joes. Banning the use of pre-loaded guns makes that point moot. (I’ve only ever been held at swordpoint). Next cities have an inherent advantage by having walls, gates, large militias. Using guns will not change this.

 

 

15 minutes ago, HadvarAvMitteland said:
  1. Larger scale fights: How can we moderate the use of guns in larger scale fights? Currently in LoTC there is a 10+ PvP default rule, however if you were to fight with 9 or less people it would become increasingly difficult to moderate the use of guns within the fights. Would we need to load the guns and use multiple emotes like we do with crossbows? Or can people just have loaded guns all the time, preparing for combat if needed. I feel this will increase the amount of modreqs that go up, leading to more power-gaming, toxicity, and just an overall poor roleplay experience for those involved.

Same issues arise regardless of the tools used in the fights. Mass CRP is a pain unless everyone knows what they are doing, guns will not change this or impact it regardless. And yes, the multi-emote like crossbows is how the players wanting guns want them implemented. Again, no pre-loading so say hello to multi-emote readiness.
 

16 minutes ago, HadvarAvMitteland said:

The “dodge” mechanic: How does one use this mechanic if there are bullets flying towards your head? For a long time, you are able to /roll or crp dodging attacks, with a larger disadvantage if you lose your roll or the mod/people involved deems your dodge unrealistic. Just like an Olog charging into a human, you would be instantly killed and out of the crp if you were to encounter someone with a firearm, which I feel ruins the whole combat experience entirely and can lead to poor quality roleplay.

Again, dodging crossbow bolts or arrows is ridiculous anyway, so again guns do not change the status quo. Olog charging is ALOT different to a projectile weapon, so I honestly can’t see the comparison. Therefore I’m sorry but I can’t see where this has any affect upon the status quo we already have in regards to projectile weapons.

Next time, I think post on the main post, less work to move between threads.

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7 minutes ago, KunLunKungFu said:

I’d prefer if you just stop messaging me, in all honestly. You already know I despise you. I don’t know why you continue to try and interact with me. 

 

Good to see you’ve fallen off the wagon, though. So much for the talk of “I have been kicking my minecraft addiction”. Good day. 

Just don’t comment?

7 minutes ago, Knightei said:

 

Hi Swifty,

Firstly, I believe this could of been posted in the original debate format, but nevertheless its not my place to moderate this. Therefore we should move onto your post.
 

 

I do not believe the swing of 16 people in your screen shot (14 swing now as I write this) is a ‘mass majority’. This is barely scraping a simple majority. While this shows that yes, almost half the server don’t want firearms, almost half the server does. Which means we must actually weigh up the arguements.

 


As mentioned in the main post, we aren’t asking for guns to be added as they would be seen in real life. Instead we wish for guns that are similar in power to crossbows. Also, banditry on the roads typically involves a group of people who are confident in winning the exchange. Therefore I don’t believe the use of firearms will change the balance of power on highwaymen to regular joes. Banning the use of pre-loaded guns makes that point moot. (I’ve only ever been held at swordpoint). Next cities have an inherent advantage by having walls, gates, large militias. Using guns will not change this.

 

 

Same issues arise regardless of the tools used in the fights. Mass CRP is a pain unless everyone knows what they are doing, guns will not change this or impact it regardless. And yes, the multi-emote like crossbows is how the players wanting guns want them implemented. Again, no pre-loading so say hello to multi-emote readiness.
 

Again, dodging crossbow bolts or arrows is ridiculous anyway, so again guns do not change the status quo. Olog charging is ALOT different to a projectile weapon, so I honestly can’t see the comparison. Therefore I’m sorry but I can’t see where this has any affect upon the status quo we already have in regards to projectile weapons.

Next time, I think post on the main post, less work to move between threads.

I feel this is a fair comment @Knightei The Olog charge comment was me showing another very overpowered attack which can 1 shot someone in CRP, that was the comparison. I made this thread for my discord server, may it be an extension to the other post, it is mainly for them to freely debate. +1 for you, good sir

Edited by HadvarAvMitteland
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I was going to make a full reply but all the points you've raised apply equally to bows and crossbow, since guns are going to be on the same power level as those.

 

They're culturally aesthetic. 

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2 minutes ago, Xarkly said:

I was going to make a full reply but all the points you've raised apply equally to bows and crossbow, since guns are going to be on the same power level as those.

 

They're culturally aesthetic. 

That is fair enough, however if you read the post more in-depth, I have mentioned specific mechanics for the guns and how they could be used for powergaming. This is simply for debating, for people to make their own points?

Edited by HadvarAvMitteland
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4 minutes ago, Pyro™ said:

You realize there’s a thread for this

yes, and this is mine, your point?

 

1 minute ago, needlework said:

i thought u left because of your ban...?

i did, but i can still participate and my discord server is pretty active still. things change, and people wanted me back. we had a poll in our discord for a group i was making and 10+ people upvoted it so i will be back in July

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1. Banditry 

I don't really understand how there's a difference in holding someone at gun point than there is at holding them at bow or crossbow point. Both weapons are going to be the same in terms of power and accuracy. Bearing in mind that guns are effectively going to be aesthetic, I dont see how this argument goes against guns when the same holds true for ANY kind of ranged weaponry.

 

2. Cities

Again I dont understand the difference if you replace this scenario with bows. Given that guns are going to be aesthetic, this exact same line of reasoning persists if a towns garrison calls CRP on you and showers you with arrows. Actually, given how you can renock an arrow faster than loading a bolt or a gun, bows actually hold the advantage in this kind of situation so I dont think this is a very compelling argument against guns.

 

3. Large Fights

Once again this exact same argument applies in lots of existing circumstances. How do you moderate large fights with crossbow, bows  magic, javelin, darts, throwing axes and throwing knives, 80% of which can be operated faster than a gun, which is likely going to need some sort of ""magic"" application in order to make and use. Once again this example is not exclusive to guns and therefore not a compelling argument against guns.

 

4. Dodge Mechanic

Armor. Shields. Agility. Magic. Same way youd dodge bolts, arrows, javelins, magic, throwing axes, throwing knives etc. Yet again this example is not exclusive to guns, which are going to be the same power as other ranged weapons and probably less useful because I can kill someone faster by throwing a volley of spears at them rather than loading a gun.

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9 minutes ago, Xarkly said:

1. Banditry 

I don't really understand how there's a difference in holding someone at gun point than there is at holding them at bow or crossbow point. Both weapons are going to be the same in terms of power and accuracy. Bearing in mind that guns are effectively going to be aesthetic, I dont see how this argument goes against guns when the same holds true for ANY kind of ranged weaponry.

 

2. Cities

Again I dont understand the difference if you replace this scenario with bows. Given that guns are going to be aesthetic, this exact same line of reasoning persists if a towns garrison calls CRP on you and showers you with arrows. Actually, given how you can renock an arrow faster than loading a bolt or a gun, bows actually hold the advantage in this kind of situation so I dont think this is a very compelling argument against guns.

 

3. Large Fights

Once again this exact same argument applies in lots of existing circumstances. How do you moderate large fights with crossbow, bows  magic, javelin, darts, throwing axes and throwing knives, 80% of which can be operated faster than a gun, which is likely going to need some sort of ""magic"" application in order to make and use. Once again this example is not exclusive to guns and therefore not a compelling argument against guns.

 

4. Dodge Mechanic

Armor. Shields. Agility. Magic. Same way youd dodge bolts, arrows, javelins, magic, throwing axes, throwing knives etc. Yet again this example is not exclusive to guns, which are going to be the same power as other ranged weapons and probably less useful because I can kill someone faster by throwing a volley of spears at them rather than loading a gun.

I appreciate your response, it is way more logical and less toxic than others so thank you! I agree with you partially, not knowing that the guns were the same power level as bows and crossbow. However, I still dislike the thought of them being in lotc. Imagine saying, "Walks up to the man, placing the barrel of his gun inline with his head. He shoots at point blank range, possibly blowing his head cleanly off." It seems so stupid to me

2 minutes ago, Pyro™ said:

Wait sorry, I forgot you’re a very special person who gets to use his own thread and not the one with 350+ comments.

Again, it isn't for me it's for my discord server. Please stop commenting if you have nothing constructive to say or wish to contribute to the debate

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