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[✗] [Magic Lore] Celestialism: Breaching the Veil


Kalehart
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someone else rewrite arcanism before it gets shelved like the other magics pls....

 

 

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Whew, alrighty, a lot to respond to here.

 

First of all I understand the concerns over the MA and TA wipe. While there does seem to be some push for this that is not needed, I want to be very clear in saying that I have no issue with the Arcanism community, nor do I have any intentions to guildlock this magic- the grandfathering system exists for a reason, and I have always intended to use it to give this magic fair diversity in who can attain it. It is important to the helves, and I never intended to leave them high and dry, I had offered to grandfather BrandNewKitten, and intended to determine a few others who could also help spread the magic outside of my group. I still intend to do so.

 

The reason I state that an MA and TA wipe is vital is not out of any vindictive or elitist ideal, it is simply for the fact that the entire basic logic of the magic has changed, many will not want to accept the costs that come with acquiring it, and many characters simply won't be suited to maintaining the Four Studies outlined in the post. It is not a magic that is as widely applicable as Arcanism, and people who use Arcanism will not intuitively be able to use this. I apologize to those who don't want to lose the magic, and your concern is fair, but what I have written justifies the measure in my estimation.

 

15 hours ago, SquakHawk said:

-snip-

As for the balance concerns brought up here, that's a fair assessment and I will definitely be looking in to it. I hadn't considered it from that angle, and my approach to the mechanics of the spells may have been flawed, I can own up to that and will see about fixing it. Scaling power up along with emote counts down was probably the wrong move, though at the moment I'm not sure how else to format it for individual spells that scale. I'll figure it out.

 

This has now been adjusted. Specifics may be tweaked over time, but I am hopeful that my new method for dealing with emote count scaling is more suitable.

 

11 hours ago, lev said:

How can anything from the void be considered celestial 😬

As for the name, at this point it's mostly just colloquial and historical. I suppose I could look in to changing it, but that wouldn't divert the purpose of this magic from replacing Arcanism- as it is, I think it's at least a bit clearer, as had I not used Celestialism then the impact this had on Arcanism would catch people completely off-guard and probably be viewed as underhanded. Maybe I should just call it Arcanism, I’ll think on it.

 

16 hours ago, Ankan said:

-snip-

I could put the MA / TA wipe thing at the top, if that would somehow be better? I'm not sure where else in the lore I would have noted that aspect, other than in the section dedicated to such things placed precisely where it's supposed to be, following the provided format. I’ll bold it for now I guess, if you’re worried about people missing it and endorsing my lore without considering that detail. As stated previously, I do not now and never have had an intention to guildlock this magic or deprive the helves of the ability to obtain it.

 

Anyway thank you all for your input and I will consider it going forwards.

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I've made some balancing changes to try and remedy the issues pointed out by Squak. Most Aura Control spells now have two separate emote counts, one for casting while at that tier, and one for casting while above that tier. This maintains the sliding scale of power for each spell, while making sure that tier 4 and 5 spells take longer to cast than others.

 

Tier 5 Rebound now requires [5] emotes.
Tier 5 Shield now requires [5] emotes.
Tier 5 Flourish now requires [4] emotes.
Tier 5 Barrier now requires [6] emotes. Strength scales down if a tier [5] casts at tier [4] level, unlike with Shields.

 

It does introduce the question of why one would want to cast a tier 1 spell while at tier 5 if casting a tier 3 one is the same number of emotes, but without lowering emote counts too much I can't find a way around that. It will just be a matter of the precise amount of force or scale your character seeks to apply.

 

I have also unified the emote count of Tributary to make it require the same number of emotes regardless of tier, all scaling for this spell now simply comes from the other mechanics. This means Stream Control across the board has unified emote counts for all tiers.

 

Lastly I have removed Barrage, as I feel it gives the magic more offensive potential than I intended.

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4 hours ago, Kalehart said:

Anyway thank you all for your input and I will consider it going forwards.

 

:DDDD:DDD please reply to me too!! u replied around me!!! 😞 😞 😞 😞

 

Why did you not just make the requirement tier 3 in Arcanism instead of “one other Voidal magic,” having this as replacement (or even supplemental) lore for t3+ Arcanism instead of razing all Arcanism MA and TAs?

 

As a reimagining of an established lore instead of a replacement lore piggybacking on being nominally similar to another magic, it should bridge the existing Arcanism community into a rewrite instead of gassing them and giving your friends free pass while you also “determine a few others who could also help spread the magic outside of [your] group.”

 

You’re doing a passable rewrite of celestialism a disservice by trying to slip in provisos to police extant magic communities outside of “your group”. While a middling excuse is the cultural differences and “Four Studies” being somehow impossible for established Arcanists to adhere to (while also being possible for students of the magic to ??), your waxing lyrical about allowing it for your group while “determining a few others who could also help spread” the magic renders this app transparently cliquish. 

 

You’ve made your own lore radioactive because of your prejudices and I don’t understand why this app is pretending to be in good faith. 

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30 minutes ago, frill said:

 

:DDDD:DDD please reply to me too!! u replied around me!!! 😞 😞 😞 😞

 

Why did you not just make the requirement tier 3 in Arcanism instead of “one other Voidal magic,” having this as replacement (or even supplemental) lore for t3+ Arcanism instead of razing all Arcanism MA and TAs?

 

As a reimagining of an established lore instead of a replacement lore piggybacking on being nominally similar to another magic, it should bridge the existing Arcanism community into a rewrite instead of gassing them and giving your friend free pass while you also “determine a few others who could also help spread the magic outside of [your] group.”

 

You’re doing a passable rewrite of celestialism a disservice by trying to slip in provisos to police extant magic communities outside of “your group”. While a middling excuse is the cultural differences and “Four Studies” being somehow impossible for established Arcanists to adhere to (while also being possible for students of the magic to ??), your waxing lyrical about allowing it for your group while “determining a few others who could also help spread” the magic renders this app transparently cliquish. 

 

You’ve made your own lore radioactive because of your prejudices and I don’t understand why this app is pretending to be in good faith. 

My bad, I’m not sure how I missed replying to your note.

 

Celestialism as I have written it currently would not make sense stacked on top of current arcanism, as most of Aura Control overlaps with current Arcanism. At no point did I say that all current Arcanists are incapable of following the practices needed of them in this magic, the point I was trying to make is that not all of them could, and thus giving it to everyone would not pan out well. Not to mention the permanent loss of a magic slot that my Celestialism incurs, which I expect many players would not want to accept. I suppose I could consider an opt-out system, but I really don’t appreciate you insisting that I am somehow acting in bad faith.

 

As for calling my magic cliquish, I really don’t think that has any basis. The reason I’m vague about who I wish to grandfather is because I am not familiar with, for example, the high elf community. I don’t know everyone who has Arcanism, and I don’t know who would be in a position to help spread this rewrite of it. I have yet to reach out to determine that, but you have no reason to claim that I would do anything other than precisely what I say I intend to.

 

Let me be completely, 100% clear on what my intention is so that it cannot be mistaken, and if I fail to hold to it, I can be kept accountable:

 

I will grandfather people who have no IC or OOC relationship to me or my character, in order to ensure that this magic is not restricted to a single IC or OOC group or clique.

 

Once again I understand the upset, but trying to paint me as acting in bad faith or with the intent to make this magic into a guildlocked or clique ability is based in nothing but needless distrust. I have no prejudices against Arcanism or its community, and insist as you might that I do, it will not make it factual. I am only pressing for what I believe to be necessary for the piece I have written.

 

In fact, if you have suggestions on who I should consider grandfathering, contact me and I will see about it- frankly that would be quite helpful.

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3 minutes ago, Kalehart said:

In fact, if you have suggestions on who I should consider grandfathering, contact me and I will see about it- frankly that would be quite helpful.

 

The only suggestion I can give you for this is to rework your lore to have it adapt to the current setting instead of requiring scorched earth to force its applicability. A wipe of all TAs and MAs for a widely used magic should be the nuclear option and not the port of first call.

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36 minutes ago, frill said:

-snip-

Hi It’s Tentoa. Just popping by on my never ending trip to the cigarette and milk store to say:

“Just scrap all that stuff your wrote and rewrite it to my specifications because I don’t trust you despite all the good faith you’ve openly admitted you’re willing to give to the rest of the community for this new entirely different magic.”
Hey instead of being counter-productive you could also suggest something like:

Let the team pick out your group of grandfathered people based on their individual interest and impartial mediation and volunteer to illustrate the spirit of the magic and answer questions regarding your spells and abilities. And if you can’t trust the lore portion of the Story Team to be non-biased in their decision making; Why do we have them? 

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i hate magic roleplayers. like why can’t you guys just roleplay summoning magic missiles without constantly being at each other’s throats trying to get other ppl’s roleplay banned

 

it looks completely psychotic from an outsider perspective

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MA Wipe.

 

Miss me with that. How’s that fair to anybody who’s invested time into this and worked at becoming a master of Arcanism in the past? You’re going to invalidate hundreds of hours of other people’s time because you had some brainblast and decided to call Arcanism Celestialism. 

 

 

I don’t mean to be inflammatory or instigate anybody with this, but I want to point out this glaring error with regards to how it will unapologetically nullify TONS of work on the end of other players to practice this magic. Why does your character get it and not mine? Because you selected to rewrite it, you get to play God with other people’s characters? The rest of the lore is fine, but please rectify this or I will be writing my own rewrite. 

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37 minutes ago, ExcitedEXE said:

MA Wipe.

 

Miss me with that. How’s that fair to anybody who’s invested time into this and worked at becoming a master of Arcanism in the past? You’re going to invalidate hundreds of hours of other people’s time because you had some brainblast and decided to call Arcanism Celestialism. 

 

 

I don’t mean to be inflammatory or instigate anybody with this, but I want to point out this glaring error with regards to how it will unapologetically nullify TONS of work on the end of other players to practice this magic. Why does your character get it and not mine? Because you selected to rewrite it, you get to play God with other people’s characters? The rest of the lore is fine, but please rectify this or I will be writing my own rewrite. 

 

 

ma wipes are based

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Kinda cringe seeing people claim ‘ownership’ over a magic they’ve done nothing to save and made no proactive effort to rewrite themselves over the past YEAR since loregames began. 

Regardless of my opinion on this lorepiece, MA and TA wipes are very common for dead and dying magic groups.

If you care so little about contributing to the server and other people’s RP that you’re not willing to put in the effort to attempt a lorepiece and reach out to the ST if you’re struggling with said writing, and would rather wait for some other schmuck to write it so you can then leach off of their piece despite no involvement and no proactive effort to have your old lore revived, you don’t deserve that decaying MA from 2016 to mean diddly-squat. 

 

8 hours ago, ScreamingDingo said:

 

 

ma wipes are based

Necromancers did it just fine, Afflicted did it just fine, Dark Shamans did it just fine back in the day, Striga did it just fine, ‘Werewolves’ did it just fine, Arcanists can do it just fine.

MA wipes will be the norm for lore groups that currently DO NOT EXIST being brought back into existence by someone who wants to start fresh. There’s no problem with that.

To the Arcanists screeching on this post here’s a TL;DR:

The old Arcanism lore is bad and isn’t coming back, no-one is going to write it for you. If you think this lore is bad you should write some yourself instead. If you think it’s bad another player group will get the magic you haven’t had for a year, then reflect on how long you’ve had time to write your own lore to prevent that. 

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2 minutes ago, The King Of The Moon said:

Kinda cringe seeing people claim ‘ownership’ over a magic they’ve done nothing to save and made no proactive effort to rewrite themselves over the past YEAR since loregames began. 

Regardless of my opinion on this lorepiece, MA and TA wipes are very common for dead and dying magic groups.

If you care so little about contributing to the server and other people’s RP that you’re not willing to put in the effort to attempt a lorepiece and reach out to the ST if you’re struggling with said writing, and would rather wait for some other schmuck to write it so you can then leach off of their piece despite no involvement and no proactive effort to have your old lore revived, you don’t deserve that decaying MA from 2016 to mean diddly-squat. 

Necromancers did it just fine, Afflicted did it just fine, Dark Shamans did it just fine back in the day, Striga did it just fine, ‘Werewolves’ did it just fine, Arcanists can do it just fine.

To the Arcanists screeching on this post here’s a TL;DR:

The old Arcanism lore is bad and isn’t coming back, no-one is going to write it for you. If you think this lore is bad you should write some yourself instead. If you think it’s bad another player group will get the magic you haven’t had for a year, then reflect on how long you’ve had time to write your own lore to prevent that. 

holy **** they’re DEAD

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1 hour ago, The King Of The Moon said:

Kinda cringe seeing people claim ‘ownership’ over a magic they’ve done nothing to save and made no proactive effort to rewrite themselves over the past YEAR since loregames began. 

Regardless of my opinion on this lorepiece, MA and TA wipes are very common for dead and dying magic groups.

If you care so little about contributing to the server and other people’s RP that you’re not willing to put in the effort to attempt a lorepiece and reach out to the ST if you’re struggling with said writing, and would rather wait for some other schmuck to write it so you can then leach off of their piece despite no involvement and no proactive effort to have your old lore revived, you don’t deserve that decaying MA from 2016 to mean diddly-squat. 

 

Necromancers did it just fine, Afflicted did it just fine, Dark Shamans did it just fine back in the day, Striga did it just fine, ‘Werewolves’ did it just fine, Arcanists can do it just fine.

MA wipes will be the norm for lore groups that currently DO NOT EXIST being brought back into existence by someone who wants to start fresh. There’s no problem with that.

To the Arcanists screeching on this post here’s a TL;DR:

The old Arcanism lore is bad and isn’t coming back, no-one is going to write it for you. If you think this lore is bad you should write some yourself instead. If you think it’s bad another player group will get the magic you haven’t had for a year, then reflect on how long you’ve had time to write your own lore to prevent that. 

 

bro........

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1 hour ago, The King Of The Moon said:

Kinda cringe seeing people claim ‘ownership’ over a magic they’ve done nothing to save and made no proactive effort to rewrite themselves over the past YEAR since loregames began. 

 

Kinda cringe to see somebody defend a lore piece just because the piece exists. 

 

1 hour ago, The King Of The Moon said:

Regardless of my opinion on this lorepiece, MA and TA wipes are very common for dead and dying magic groups.

 

I don’t know if you're being purposefully ambiguous or just trying to eek out a quick dopamine hit by addressing a point nobody is making. The issue here is that Kaleheart wants to wipe MAs and TAs and to personally police who uses what was previously a reasonably widely spread magic, those with access outside of “his group” of inactive mage RPers being a paltry few “handpicked” people being unnecessarily “grandfathered in”. You’re being obscenely disingenuous by ignoring the fact that Kaleheart is trying to feed into the same magic RPer clique-ism that has plagued the server for years because you’re trying to drop epic owns such as “uh write your own lore if you dont like it -_-“ against people like the high elves who are trying to protect their established communities.

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On 5/21/2020 at 3:47 AM, Ankan said:

Good hustle attempting to sneak your MA/TA for all Arcanists wipe through here, when we fought it and had it stopped during the Lore Games. Hiding it at the end of the post too- good try. I will never support magic with such historical importance and weight, so well intertwined with both lore, history and characters, as Arcanism and Haelun’or- to be locked beyond their walls to a certain few Suticans. If that is changed, I will give the rest of the lore piece actual feedback too.

 

BIG -1

 

39355dcbca96de4b7aad27b1d8538635.png

high elf culture go brrrr

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