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[✗] [CA Race Lore] The Remnant Kha'


Wretched
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maybe just add some more rp-ish reasoning as to why bleaching fur isn’t viable instead of just outright redlining it for defying a theme? because it seems like the white fur is kind-of a theme for kitten and the other guy’s characters and retconning peoples’ roleplay is just weird and overbearing. maybe specify the tone of white (pure white, eggshell, etc.) that the tlatlatanni’s fur was to allow for the other more obvious shades of white to still exist for kha’ who bleach their fur? and unless there’s some discovered bleaching agent in rp or something, how does fur get perfectly white/not yellow or bronze-ish anyway? or maybe just that attempts to bleach their cat people fur causes it to fall out or dry up due to just not taking well to the existing bleach stuff? 

 

other than that because i just hate lore suddenly stomping over roleplay, it’s a good way to continue the kharajyr without beating the dead horse that was their old lore stuff

 

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15 minutes ago, Nug said:

maybe just add some more rp-ish reasoning as to why bleaching fur isn’t viable instead of just outright redlining it for defying a theme? because it seems like the white fur is kind-of a theme for kitten and the other guy’s characters and retconning peoples’ roleplay is just weird and overbearing. maybe specify the tone of white (pure white, eggshell, etc.) that the tlatlatanni’s fur was to allow for the other more obvious shades of white to still exist for kha’ who bleach their fur? and unless there’s some discovered bleaching agent in rp or something, how does fur get perfectly white/not yellow or bronze-ish anyway? or maybe just that attempts to bleach their cat people fur causes it to fall out or dry up due to just not taking well to the existing bleach stuff? 

 

other than that because i just hate lore suddenly stomping over roleplay, it’s a good way to continue the kharajyr without beating the dead horse that was their old lore stuff

 


I mean bleaching will definitely hurt one’s skin. Especially if you think about it. A Kha that wants to bleach their fur entirely white will need stay in a large bleach bath for minutes. It’s unhealthy in general and will have to be repeated multiple times.

 

then again, the key note here is entirely. If they choose for dying themselves partially, that is fine. Tough, considering normal consequences, dying one’s entire body white will result in heavy consequences for their health. I mean, we can put that in there to clarify

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Also people who are ‘bleaching’ their fur do so with the limited technology of LOTC, I mean what are they using?

I understand people who bleach their Kha’s fur and I actually think they should be allowed to, it’d create interesting RP as long as the person doing it is FULLY aware of the implications. Kha who bleach their fur would do so (I can imagine) to impersonate a tlatanni. Any other reason is... Well it kinda spits in the face of Kha lore from its inception and they really don’t understand the race that they are playing.

Possibly edit the redline to ‘No bleaching to white fur except for the explicit reason to impersonate a tlatanni’. At least then people would recognise the gravity of what they’re doing in roleplay.

Just a thought, otherwise ban white kha completely.

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@Knightei But they aren’t doing it to imitate the Tlatlanni. And the ‘limited technology’ excuse is even worse-- Celts and Vikings have been lye bleaching their hair for literal thousands of years. We’ve been bleaching the fur of animals for the same amount of time. That goes PAST the ‘limited technology’ of a server that has robots (animii)? Really? Something our ancestors with bear skins and sharp sticks could do?

 

 

@chaosgamer_ The player still has rosettes and have asked our characters for help coming up with a faster way to rub in the lye powder. It makes it sound like you guys are mad that the RP is happening and are coming up with redlines to remove it. Races shouldn’t be popularity clubs, especially at the expense of the other player’s roleplay histories; and once that happens people will stop giving a **** about your race and there will be less people around to support it when this happens again.

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41 minutes ago, AlaricGrimgold said:

@Knightei But they aren’t doing it to imitate the Tlatlanni. And the ‘limited technology’ excuse is even worse-- Celts and Vikings have been lye bleaching their hair for literal thousands of years. We’ve been bleaching the fur of animals for the same amount of time. That goes PAST the ‘limited technology’ of a server that has robots (animii)? Really? Something our ancestors with bear skins and sharp sticks could do?

 

 

@chaosgamer_ The player still has rosettes and have asked our characters for help coming up with a faster way to rub in the lye powder. It makes it sound like you guys are mad that the RP is happening and are coming up with redlines to remove it. Races shouldn’t be popularity clubs, especially at the expense of the other player’s roleplay histories; and once that happens people will stop giving a **** about your race and there will be less people around to support it when this happens again.

 

Just to inform everyone on this thread. Hrokaz/AlaricGrimgold and I discussed things over discord about these redlines and changes in the rewrite. It’ll be discussed

Edited by chaosgamer_
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Thank God. Good kha lore. 

 

My only thing is the firm 'no kha can dye thier fur white'. As if that's a pure lore restriction when it shouldn't be what so ever. Aesthetic changes like that aren't ever held or restricted in such a manner when it wouldn't make sense.  What's exactly preventing say someone dumping white paint or force dyeing a kha white? I would find it odd that it just magically wouldn't work.

 

The redline in question be best stated as if any kha attempts such, they be most likely shunned or killed given the cultural significance behind it. Rather than just saying it's not possible at all. 

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59 minutes ago, AlaricGrimgold said:

@Knightei But they aren’t doing it to imitate the Tlatlanni. And the ‘limited technology’ excuse is even worse-- Celts and Vikings have been lye bleaching their hair for literal thousands of years. We’ve been bleaching the fur of animals for the same amount of time. That goes PAST the ‘limited technology’ of a server that has robots (animii)? Really? Something our ancestors with bear skins and sharp sticks could do?

 

 

@chaosgamer_ The player still has rosettes and have asked our characters for help coming up with a faster way to rub in the lye powder. It makes it sound like you guys are mad that the RP is happening and are coming up with redlines to remove it. Races shouldn’t be popularity clubs, especially at the expense of the other player’s roleplay histories; and once that happens people will stop giving a **** about your race and there will be less people around to support it when this happens again.


Thats my point Alaric. The only instance of being a white kha SHOULD be to either BE a tlatanni or imitate one. Its like walking around dressed the same as jesus and going “Oh no, I’m not pretending to be jesus I’m just doing me.” as you walk around in robes, bearded and long hair as your crown of thorns dig into your head.

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Benbo is one of two people I’d trust to write this lore, and he has not disappointed. My only worry is that current Kha players might not be able to shift to a more morose tone for their culture, but I will however give this a cautious +1.

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Quote
  • Applying Kharajyr must create characters that adhere to this lore, meaning that they arrive from a returned pilgrimage from Khalenwyr and understand the depth and loss of their race’s history (unless born of two existing Kharajyr).

  • Kharajyr may take on any job or purpose, but must in some way create links to their lost culture and history through their RP - they exist as reminders of the past, and should never be able to seamlessly integrate into another culture.

  • The Kharajyr may only take on one independent site as a headquarters, but this must be small, and no other purely or majority Kha’ settlements are permitted.

  • Kharajyr understand that Metztli is dead through vague and abstract texts discovered on the Lunar Pilgrimage, but do not understand the specific nature of how it occurred unless discovered in-character.

These redlines just seem unnecessary. 

  • First one – it’s just weird to require every new character of a race to have the same “origin story” or whatever. Just seems like a restriction for the sake of restriction.
  • The second seems weird and unenforceable. How are you going to judge if someone’s done that? And would you really revoke someone’s Kha because the way they’re playing their chosen profession doesn’t create a “link to their lost culture”, whatever they means? If a redline is vague and unenforceable, there’s no point having it.
  • The third is just restricting roleplay again. We already have charter activity checks to prevent ghost towns. If Kha theoretically could keep two charters active, and RP led to them having a schism of sorts, why would they be forced to stick together? Or if some Kha wanted to go under the High Elves and some others wanted to go under a different nation, why should they be prevented from doing that?
  • Just seems like it’s limiting RP and what in-character beliefs individual Kha can hold just for the sake of it. If some Kha prays to a dead Daemon, why does it matter?
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2 hours ago, argonian said:
  • Just seems like it’s limiting RP and what in-character beliefs individual Kha can hold just for the sake of it. If some Kha prays to a dead Daemon, why does it matter?

 

Just doing my part with question and answering along with the other two real quick, wanted to leave the rest of your points to others, but this isn’t actually restricting beliefs as far as I know; no doubt it’s an important part of the grieving process to be in denial and bargain. Rather, Kha’ will vaguely know of Metzli being dead. This doesn’t prevent any character from not believing that(or caring for that matter, if they want to be rebels), and even if they do from peer pressure or concrete evidence, praying for her revival one day although it may never arrive.

The answer is it doesn’t matter, the redline is more limiting what new Kha’ know about just exactly how dead she is, how her death occurred. Because that would be a little meta, and unfairly earned without proper RP done to know.

(oh and quick edit, we appreciate the constructive feedback! even though several people were reviewing this including myself as it was written, the only real way to test it is put it out there to the public obviously)

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Good lore, just hope that a community can grow from this and we dont get stuck in the same cycle as the past five years

 

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On white fur:

 

Kharajyr for a long time have danced the line between a ‘Race’, and a ‘CA Race’, so I appreciate where this misunderstanding of the distinction has come from. As a race, it would indeed be improper to enforce a standard of RP onto its characters, but a CA Race is something you must apply for, and you must apply for it because you are accepting a list of themes, standards and obligations. Nothing is preventing a person from forcibly dying a Kha’s fur, but permanent changes to a character require OOC permission, and OOC permission would not be given. Like other lores, and not just CAs, redlines may cover anything that will have a negative impact on RP and do not necessarily require in-character explanations when the process of using the lore is through an application.

 

Take for example, the fact that a Tlatlanni may not exist. This is a purely OOC ruling, and there is absolutely no in-character explanation as to why any old Kha’ could not one day just turn around and claim to be the Tlatlanni – and yet, nobody has pointed this out, because there is an understanding that it would be negative for the race and the lore. Instead the more minute OOC ruling of Kha’ being unable to have white fur has been raised with the same argument, which to me doesn’t make any sense at all, and the only reason I could think this point would be raised is because you are more concerned with your personal character’s aesthetic than your race. I don’t blame anyone for having personal bias toward their own character, that’s natural, but this minority of a minority should not obstruct what is best for the race as a whole.

 

Just to emphasise this point : redlines exist to temper and direct roleplay as well as state where its boundaries are, and by no means require in-character justification. An example of this is in Seer lore, how the Seers of Vaasek are entirely unable to reveal other Seers. It is not directly explained in-character why this occurs, but it doesn’t need explaining; for good RP with a sense of longevity, it only needs obeying.

 

This will be my final mention of Kha’ being able to have white fur – It is not something that will be included in this proposal. Fur colour is something very vital to this lore, and not at all vital for individual characters. Allowing Kha’ to have white fur could very much lead to an abundance of them, and a rule for one must be a rule for all, we can’t later decide that actually too many Kha’ are white now and they’ve disregarded the lore, it needs to be made clear right now that none are permitted whatsoever. Dying fur consistently for a Kha’s entire life is in itself reaching at best; it was never explicitly mentioned in previous lores and this was taken advantage of, and has been for a while. It’s not something that was permitted, it’s something that was never written – it has now been written. Allowing Kha’ to have white fur makes a tidy lore untidy, and tidy lore is what the Kharajyr needs if they want to continue to exist. If your Kha currently has white fur, you can justify its removal in any way you desire, as long as it is removed. 

 

I have seen some saddening screencaps of people claiming they will in no way support this lore while it disallows white fur due to it forcibly changing people’s characters, so let’s address that too: change is the intention, change is exactly what is required to prevent shelving. This proposal was made because Kha’ have a gun to their head, and had I not proposed it the trigger may well have been pulled already, so I urge these people in particular to take a moment and consider what the alternative is.

 

Your Kha’ characters will undergo thematic changes if this lore is passed. If the lore did not change the Kha’ at all, it wouldn’t be very good lore. If you believe that your Kha’s fur colour is so absolutely vital to your character’s existence, that you are totally unable to accept a lore that could prevent their shelving, then you are already beyond saving. Kha’ have more depth to them than the colour of their fur, and it is this mentality of players creating Kha’ purely for the aesthetic that I intend to crush.

 

 

4 hours ago, argonian said:

These redlines just seem unnecessary. 

  • First one – it’s just weird to require every new character of a race to have the same “origin story” or whatever. Just seems like a restriction for the sake of restriction.
  • The second seems weird and unenforceable. How are you going to judge if someone’s done that? And would you really revoke someone’s Kha because the way they’re playing their chosen profession doesn’t create a “link to their lost culture”, whatever they means? If a redline is vague and unenforceable, there’s no point having it.
  • The third is just restricting roleplay again. We already have charter activity checks to prevent ghost towns. If Kha theoretically could keep two charters active, and RP led to them having a schism of sorts, why would they be forced to stick together? Or if some Kha wanted to go under the High Elves and some others wanted to go under a different nation, why should they be prevented from doing that?
  • Just seems like it’s limiting RP and what in-character beliefs individual Kha can hold just for the sake of it. If some Kha prays to a dead Daemon, why does it matter?

 

I believe most of your points here are based on that idea that the Kha’ are a normal race. First point, yes, they have the same origin story, like all other CA lores do. Redlines are completely enforceable (I don’t know if you’ve ever seen the type of Kha’ I’m talking about, but identifying them is not challenging), but on that second point I think you’re right, and I will make the active RP purpose clearer in that particular redline. For your third point, it is simply to discourage the Kharajyr from creating a settlement – they have tried to do this for 7 years, and have failed to produce enough activity for it every time; a settlement is not where the Kha’ should be focusing their efforts.

 

RP is limited to what the lore will allow, that might sound like a horrifying statement, but again, that’s the idea of a CA and it’s really not as negative as it sounds. If you want ultimate freedom of choice over your characters and their backstory, you should by no means apply for a CA of any kind.

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@Wretched So I guess putting it in more plain terms is required since it is being misconstrued entirely again. 1/6th of your community, a very large number for such a small race, is dyed Kha that are absolutely not running around pretending to be the Tlatlanni. They never have and aren't asking as it for a work around for white kha. What is being asked for is the 1/6th of your community currently playing as them be allowed to continue to keep their characters. I play neither of them, and apparently you don’t even play one of the other 5/6th, but honestly, it sounds like you should have considered the wants of the community that is actually keeping your race afloat compared to talking about ‘pulling the trigger on one group, before they pulled the trigger on us’.

 

Again, since I don’t need to write an essay on such a simple rebutal-- ain’t nobody talking about PURE WHITE FURRED KHA, people are talking about playing DYED FURRED KHA. 

 

Neither of those dyed fur have caused a problem, so stop RP policing them. If they do something IC, handle it IC; not like a bunch of OOC complainers.

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1 hour ago, AlaricGrimgold said:

1/6th of your community,

 

You’re saying 1/6th a lot because you don’t want to say 2.

 

1 hour ago, AlaricGrimgold said:

What is being asked for is the 1/6th of your community currently playing as them be allowed to continue to keep their characters

 

If they lose their characters because they had to change their fur colour, that just speaks for itself.

 

1 hour ago, AlaricGrimgold said:

apparently you don’t even play one of the other 5/6th

 

I am not currently playing a Kha’ – but I have played a Kha’ since they day of its implementation. I have played three Kharajyr characters over the years, I have played the Tlatlanni, ran eventlines for them and have written lore for them in the past. Failing to see what connection there is to me not currently playing a Kha’ and my ability to be able to write lore for them.

 

1 hour ago, AlaricGrimgold said:

it sounds like you should have considered the wants of the community

 

cb468ac759deef9f822aada1e0a92c02.png

 

This is from the Kharajyr discord, made up of old kha’, current kha’ and applying kha’. 100% approval. Tell me again how I didn’t consider what the community wanted.

 

1 hour ago, AlaricGrimgold said:

the community that is actually keeping your race afloat

 

The race is not afloat. That’s a very weird claim. It was literally about to be shelved.

 

1 hour ago, AlaricGrimgold said:

ain’t nobody talking about PURE WHITE FURRED KHA

 

The redline mentions specifically white-fur or any shade similar to it. I am not just talking about pure white, I am indeed talking about the shades close to it. Just being ‘not quite white’ is just another, deeper level of circumvention to the lore. I’m scrubbing away the ambiguity on whether or not it is permitted.

 

1 hour ago, AlaricGrimgold said:

Neither of those dyed fur have caused a problem, so stop RP policing them.

 

Do you know that? Because listing the problems with the Kharajyr would take me a while. Simply put, in my opinion it is a problem, I explained this at length in my previous post, and all Kharajyr I’ve spoken to about it through the lore-creation process seem to be in agreement (it’s more than 2).

 

-

 

I’m sorry you don’t support it, and that isn’t meant sarcastically –  but I think if I were to argue this point anymore I’d just be repeating myself.

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