AlaricGrimgold 398 Share Posted September 11, 2020 You’re saying if they lose their character because of their fur color it speaks for itself because you wanted to spend 0 time getting to know what their story is... You’re saying 1/6 is just two because you don’t want to admit now that the Kha only have a player base of 12 and of those 12, 2 of them are dyed Kha. Dropping your player base down even more to basically a bunch of Ireheart bait isn’t a great look. That vote was before specifically YOU continued to press the matter to keep expanding the dyed fur matter. Chaotic and the dyed fur and myself have all talked soooo... I’m not sure who you are even referring to anymore since you are pulling out old polls. The people who are preventing the race from being shelved is most certainly not someone not even playing one, but the 12 that currently are. On your final point, there are 12 you could have talked to. The two who are dyed and Chaotic all seem to be in agreement that it would be shitty to write people out of the race they have contributed to and have worked on their own stories that you wish to so easily gloss over with ‘fur color is meaningless to individual stories’. It really seems like you are incapable of writing anything shorter than an essay to explain ‘No, I absolutely did not talk to those players currently playing those who I am deciding to write out to see why they are playing those. I just don’t like that they are playing them and shall try to OOC write them out of a race I’m not even playing.’ 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delmodan 851 Share Posted September 11, 2020 @Wretched I think you are misunderstanding what some are saying. Lore wise of a kha not being born with white fur is really completely fine and understandable. There's nothing wrong with that. What many are saying here is that forcing a statement of 'you can't even dye fur the specific color white' is a bit in and of itself just flat unrealistic. Will ones ever do that? Probably not, but that's really for a character to ICly decide than placed in a lore redline. If some kha wants to constantly dye thier fur, that's on them and they have to deal with the consequences of their actions. Especially, as many point out here, it's not exactly a good thing to dye one's fur all the time without some negative effects going on. But when you look at this as well, it's odd even declaring one specific color at all when it should be really all colors and dyes in general if you want to step in that area. That's really where I'm at least coming from. It just seems odd to me. And something that ICly people would handle. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xarkly 12585 Share Posted September 11, 2020 OOCly preventing a Kha from making an IC decision to dye their fur is like OOCly preventing Orenian players from not being Cannonist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaosgamer_ 754 Share Posted September 11, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, AlaricGrimgold said: You’re saying if they lose their character because of their fur color it speaks for itself because you wanted to spend 0 time getting to know what their story is... You’re saying 1/6 is just two because you don’t want to admit now that the Kha only have a player base of 12 and of those 12, 2 of them are dyed Kha. Dropping your player base down even more to basically a bunch of Ireheart bait isn’t a great look. That vote was before specifically YOU continued to press the matter to keep expanding the dyed fur matter. Chaotic and the dyed fur and myself have all talked soooo... I’m not sure who you are even referring to anymore since you are pulling out old polls. The people who are preventing the race from being shelved is most certainly not someone not even playing one, but the 12 that currently are. On your final point, there are 12 you could have talked to. The two who are dyed and Chaotic all seem to be in agreement that it would be shitty to write people out of the race they have contributed to and have worked on their own stories that you wish to so easily gloss over with ‘fur color is meaningless to individual stories’. It really seems like you are incapable of writing anything shorter than an essay to explain ‘No, I absolutely did not talk to those players currently playing those who I am deciding to write out to see why they are playing those. I just don’t like that they are playing them and shall try to OOC write them out of a race I’m not even playing.’ I said I would bring it up, but I did not make a promise that I would prevent it from happening. We can go back and forth on this topic for as long as we want. But as you say, 2, or a 1/6th of the community keeping us afloat is dyed. But, we are talking about a minority of a minority in here in general. The thing why this whole dyed thing was even allowed in the first place because of several reasons. white kha, even when dyed, were shelved before this rewrite. But because the original outdated lore was removed, and Ryloth’s rewrite was denied, Kharajyr had no lore. Hence why there were no guidelines on what can happen and what could not. If the original was all still enforced, the dyed Kha in question would have had their CA revoked already a long time ago. This wasn’t something that was just introduced, but something that has gone on for 8 years. I thank Wretched for helping us make this rewrite. He might not play a Kha now, but the reason why the Kha even exist in the first place is because he co-founded the lore with Xerdun. Had he not done it, we wouldn’t have Kha in the first place. Second, he returned to save us. If we had not made this rewrite this quickly, we would not have valid lore in play. This means Kharajyr would have indeed already been shot by now and shelved possibly. And to quote him, a CA is put in place so that players abide to strict lore to which they agree. Not only that, but when you make a CA you also agree to accept any changes that will possibly made to the lore of the CA. As much as I don’t like that we can’t make everyone happy because of opinions and what others want, the whole goal was to save the CA as a whole. This means mandatory to some of the playerbase, albeit it only two players in total. We might need to enforce mandatory changes that will obstruct current characters, but the rewrite is not blocking them to change their characters and continuing to play them. In general, this will stay a back and forth conversation on who wants what and it will not reach a compromise. Because what we want and what others want are polar opposites. So I suggest we let the redline float in the air until the ST review the rewrite. They can have the final say whether the white dying redline stays, is deleted, or needs editing Edited September 11, 2020 by chaosgamer_ 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaricGrimgold 398 Share Posted September 11, 2020 Maybe they have a story reason that people are unaware of and should figure out through interaction? Maybe they wish to form a group that disagrees with the Turned Trident, and dye their fur white as a profane statement towards Metzli’s death and form a ‘Ghost Cat Cult’ or some ****? Maybe they undergo the painful dyeing process as a self-mortification towards Metzli like medieval flagellants? Maybe they don’t want to tell you why? That creates culture and story and actual original flavor that was asked for. But to just assume it’s to pretend to be a Tlatlanni and outright say no, seems limiting and unrealistic. @chaosgamer_ I never did say you were on our side, or would prevent it from happening, but I did say we discussed the opposition side and you saw where we came from (i.e. it does seem a little **** to throw a portion of your community under the wheels). Beyond that, I am only pointing out the opposition opinion, which is plainly, restricting character choices is bad form. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wretched 2038 Author Share Posted September 11, 2020 If the issue is purely that it’s coming from an OOC place, a redline can be written that states something along he lines of a Kha’s fur cannot be bleached/dyed because it will fall out, or something similar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xarkly 12585 Share Posted September 11, 2020 Dunno why you’d invent an RP mechanic to justify OOCly restricting RP choices. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaricGrimgold 398 Share Posted September 11, 2020 @Wretched How would coming up with an even more contrived IRP reason to restrict their choices make it less of an OOC decision? That is just saying-- well if you don’t like that I am going after them, I can come up with an RP reason to do so. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wretched 2038 Author Share Posted September 11, 2020 Exactly, I did think that would be more limiting to you, so that clause of OOC involvement really doesn’t matter because it instantly loops back around to just wanting to be able to dye fur white. This is all totally pointless. Nobody is going to agree with each other. I know the ST reads the feedback too, so it’ll be their decision when it gets reviewed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaosgamer_ 754 Share Posted September 11, 2020 (edited) Please, we are squabbling over a minor issue on which there are many different opinions as of now. We literally Just saved the entire CA race as a whole. This would not have been a topic at all had this rewrite not taken place. We were on the edge of being shelved and this rewrite is literally what it takes to save the CA. We can go on forever on who wants what, about dying fur, how we are oocly restricting this with this rewrite. But please, the final say is for the ST when they review this. So please, let’s leave the topic for what it is and see what the ST review says in the end. If it can’t happen then it just can’t happen I am only asking to at least leave us in our values that the lot of us bonded together to push this out in order to save the Kha. Many of the player base disagreed when the possible shelving of the Kha got leaked. This was the Kharajyr player base (majority of it) response to stop it from happening. It might not be perfect, but then again, nothing is. Edited September 11, 2020 by chaosgamer_ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaricGrimgold 398 Share Posted September 11, 2020 @Wretched How is it not just less restricting to simply say-- “It is abnormal for Kha to choose to dye their fur, and those who do are commonly outcasted from Kha society or are killed for their actions”? That is IRP consequences for IRP decisions, and I am certain story team would be more than reasonable to listen to that. Let’s stop acting like people are amorphous blobs incapable of reasonable thought and emotion. The 1/6 or two or whatever you want to call them are still players, people behind the computers, and so are the story team, who I am certain aren’t just unreasonable cogs who will shoot out any form with an error in it. They like interesting stories just as much as the rest of us. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaosgamer_ 754 Share Posted September 11, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, AlaricGrimgold said: @Wretched How is it not just less restricting to simply say-- “It is abnormal for Kha to choose to dye their fur, and those who do are commonly outcasted from Kha society or are killed for their actions”? That is IRP consequences for IRP decisions, and I am certain story team would be more than reasonable to listen to that. Let’s stop acting like people are amorphous blobs incapable of reasonable thought and emotion. The 1/6 or two or whatever you want to call them are still players, people behind the computers, and so are the story team, who I am certain aren’t just unreasonable cogs who will shoot out any form with an error in it. They like interesting stories just as much as the rest of us. If the ST see a problem with the redline and find it better as a cultural value, then I believe they will say so. If they deem it necessary for things to be edited, then that will happen. Edited September 11, 2020 by chaosgamer_ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delmodan 851 Share Posted September 11, 2020 19 minutes ago, Wretched said: If the issue is purely that it’s coming from an OOC place, a redline can be written that states something along he lines of a Kha’s fur cannot be bleached/dyed because it will fall out, or something similar. This would definitely make more sense to me than just specifically stating one color. As I said, it was just one color instead of them all that I found odd. Love you benbo ❤️ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandNewKitten 2788 Share Posted September 13, 2020 What if you skin a white furred-animal and glued that fur to your kha? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotEvilAtAll 9926 Share Posted September 13, 2020 1 hour ago, BrandNewKitten said: What if you skin a white furred-animal and glued that fur to your kha? Why would you glue something to your own body? Wouldn’t that be 10x more uncomfortable than just wearing the fur as clothing? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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