[✗] [CA Lore] Azdrazi, the Children of Azdromoth

[1_Language_1 1670]

I was going to say "someone go get kholi, his race is back" but then I realized this is a different race! I always thought this race was neato.

[monkeypoacher 6993]

On 10/18/2020 at 6:10 PM, Malaise said:

Azdrazi are no more durable than any descendant race. Though Orc strength is their typical level of comparison, there is no rule or outlier in common role-play that makes them any more durable than a typical descendant with a sword and board set up. I would personally argue that being a descendant-tier combatant with fire magic which lacks, say, voidal fatigue, is set back by the fact that Azdrazi revival takes an entire week’s time to be fulfilled. A voidal mage, though not as strong as an orc, can be revived within 30 minutes time. An Azdrazi, capable of dying like any other creature to sword wounds or otherwise lethal damage, will not be able to be played again for quite some time, comparatively. This strict adherence to a more rigid death structure seems a fitting weakness to me. Thank you for your feedback!

 

After post edit:

In saying this, I mean to emphasize that the weaknesses you provided as examples are used to counter a creature’s greatest strengths.

Gold, for creatures that cannot be struck by normal weapons.

Fatigue, for creatures that have magical powers but otherwise mundane life rules.

Physical weakness, for creatures with immense powers outside of their physical capabilities.

etc.

 

Curious how you expect this to pan out. You’ve set up Azdrazi so that an RP death locks the player out of their character for a week (if I’m not misreading the section) while giving them a “wrathful demeanor” and combat buffs. So what exactly prevents Azdrazi players from getting into fights they can’t win, then mercilessly powergaming their “orc strength” and firebreathing powers to avoid the 1 week soft ban? The way you’ve set this up tacitly encourages Azdrazi to powergame while giving them tools to do so. This sounds like a recipe for disaster.

 

Cut out the 1 week revival time (no other CA race has to deal with this drawback) and give them a clear-cut weakness in combat. Or, if you’re adamant about there being protracted consequences for losing CRP while having no CRP weaknesses, make them lose their strength (and ability to CRP) for a week instead of losing their character outright.

[Valaryon 513]

25 minutes ago, howard said:

 

Curious how you expect this to pan out. You’ve set up Azdrazi so that an RP death locks the player out of their character for a week (if I’m not misreading the section) while giving them a “wrathful demeanor” and combat buffs. So what exactly prevents Azdrazi players from getting into fights they can’t win, then mercilessly powergaming their “orc strength” and firebreathing powers to avoid the 1 week soft ban? The way you’ve set this up tacitly encourages Azdrazi to powergame while giving them tools to do so. This sounds like a recipe for disaster.

 

Cut out the 1 week revival time (no other CA race has to deal with this drawback) and give them a clear-cut weakness in combat. Or, if you’re adamant about there being protracted consequences for losing CRP while having no CRP weaknesses, make them lose physical strength through revival. 

We have had the ‘one week revival time’ for almost four years. The wrathful demeanor are draconic traits – which within itself it specifically says it can be overcome. We have had the ‘Orc Strength’ for nearly four years, and fire breath since its inception. There is no tactful encouragement, we have not altered any hardcore Azdrazi concepts and instead have scaled back our strengths specifically to be more fair to the playerbase. This was not a forced rewrite, this is something I specifically chose to be fair and to try and give the Azdrazi more archetypes to play through. They have CRP weaknesses through Paladins Sunlight Forged blades and through Shade magics. Any player can receive a sunlight forged blade from a Paladin, it’s the same as if you needed some specially smithed metal to defeat us. Gold has been used historically against creatures that cannot be harmed by normal means like Wraiths or Undead, where they are immune to normal attacks or have supernatural resilience to harm. We die the same way any other creature does when struck by a blade.

[Malaise 1569]

45 minutes ago, howard said:

 

Curious how you expect this to pan out. You’ve set up Azdrazi so that an RP death locks the player out of their character for a week (if I’m not misreading the section) while giving them a “wrathful demeanor” and combat buffs. So what exactly prevents Azdrazi players from getting into fights they can’t win, then mercilessly powergaming their “orc strength” and firebreathing powers to avoid the 1 week soft ban? The way you’ve set this up tacitly encourages Azdrazi to powergame while giving them tools to do so. This sounds like a recipe for disaster.

 

Cut out the 1 week revival time (no other CA race has to deal with this drawback) and give them a clear-cut weakness in combat. Or, if you’re adamant about there being protracted consequences for losing CRP while having no CRP weaknesses, make them lose physical strength through revival. 

 

Thank you for your comment. I want to make it very clear that orc strength is no exceptional nor enforceable benefit to being an Azdrazi. Orc strength is simply strength. It will not save them from a blade being stuck through their gullet or a hammer swung at the back of their head. It might make them swing their sword or hammer a bit harder, sure, but it makes them no more difficult to kill. Their draconic wrath is a simply a roleplay trait, and provides zero benefit to any combat encounter. It might make them more likely to get into a combat encounter, which puts them at risk of death, and the following week of absence from the game. One whole real week’s time of being unable to roleplay said character. Personally, I feel that this is a major weakness, made no less severe by an Azdrazi’s toolkit.

[StormBreaker0520 192]

On 10/18/2020 at 7:10 PM, Malaise said:

Azdrazi are no more durable than any descendant race. Though Orc strength is their typical level of comparison, there is no rule or outlier in common role-play that makes them any more durable than a typical descendant with a sword and board set up. I would personally argue that being a descendant-tier combatant with fire magic which lacks, say, voidal fatigue, is set back by the fact that Azdrazi revival takes an entire week’s time to be fulfilled. A voidal mage, though not as strong as an orc, can be revived within 30 minutes time. An Azdrazi, capable of dying like any other creature to sword wounds or otherwise lethal damage, will not be able to be played again for quite some time, comparatively. This strict adherence to a more rigid death structure seems a fitting weakness to me. Thank you for your feedback!

 

After post edit:

In saying this, I mean to emphasize that the weaknesses you provided as examples are used to counter a creature’s greatest strengths.

Gold, for creatures that cannot be struck by normal weapons.

Fatigue, for creatures that have magical powers but otherwise mundane life rules.

Physical weakness, for creatures with immense powers outside of their physical capabilities.

etc.

 

Before I elaborate on how I feel, I’m going to quote the CA Race Submissions Guidelines, as I feel it’s relevant to my main concerns and questions for the post

 

• “They (the ca race) should also have weaknesses to help balance the creature in roleplay, especially in combat.”

 

• “Strengths and weaknesses of the creature should be elaborated on. This should be used to explain the pros that the creature has (e.g. increased strength) and weaknesses (e.g. fire). As well listing what magics/mundane things are effective/non-effective against it. Include as well how some magics feel/react to in regards to said creature.”

 

To be honest, I don’t really see the week of waiting after an azdrazi is killed as a weakness. Simply because of the fact that it doesn’t really affect anything irp. If I played an azdrazi character that was killed, and I had to wait a week before the flame was rekindled, I would simply take a week hiatus to avoid dealing with the implications of the death. It’s an easily exploited theme that I really don’t see as anything relevant to be able to claim it as a weakness. I see it as an insignificant limitation to their otherwise outlandish abilities. The same can be said for their inability to perform dark magics. An azdrazi has so many powerful abilities that I wouldn’t even see a need to turn to dark magic to accomplish their physical feats. Nor is their infertility any more of a weakness than other magics that turn the user infertile. 

 

The energies of Xan weakness is rather vague and underexplained, in my opinion. It’s listed as a vulnerability, but not elaborated upon in any way, thus I’ll not make any comments on it.

 

When others ask for weaknesses, I feel it’s not so much weaknesses in general as it is combat and role-play weaknesses. In the creature submission guide, it visibly states “They (the ca race) should also have weaknesses to help balance the creature in roleplay, especially in combat.” Looking at the Azdrazi ca, I see no weaknesses or debuffs that would in any way affect the azdrazi irp’ly, especially in combat. All of the weaknesses I do see are either post-combat or out of combat ooc based restrictions around the creatures.

 

You claim that whilst the creature may have strength rivaling that of an orc’s strength, there is nothing that makes them more durable than an average descendant, but I would argue the opposite. On your ca, you mention that their fortitude contests that of an orc, as well as their strength. The very definition of fortitude is courage, and adversity in the face of pain. That in itself is a measure of durability, moreso mental than physical, but still durability. Furthermore, I don’t know of many ca’s that are immune to all forms of heat and poison. They have enhanced physical abilities, enhanced mental abilities, and enhanced resistances. Doesn’t seem dissimilar to a soft ‘god mode’ button to me, and that certainly seems like higher durability than an average descendant.

 

Not only do they have such physical abilities, but they have draconic abilities to further enhance themselves. When you have abilities like firebreath, which has a four block range, and Fireball, which has a 5+ block range (after which it starts to drop), that more or less forces a player to fight from range, less they risk getting burned by fire. Sure, your supposed weakness is waiting a week after death, but that’s if the opposing party can get in close enough to fight in any effective manner (Paladin weapons won’t do crap if you’re forced to fight too far for contact). And to top if off, they have the Burning Heat ability, which enables them to heal one another. Sure, it’s minor wounds, but that still very much tips the balance of a battle in the azdrazi’s favor, as do the rest of the previous spells I mentioned. Any ample minded azdrazi could easily control the outcome of a fight with such overpowered abilities. Again, I point back to the CA guidelines 

 

• “They (the ca race) should also have weaknesses to help balance the creature in roleplay, especially in combat.”

 

There are no weaknesses that I can see outright that help balance the azdrazi, in roleplay, and especially not in combat (Other than the paladin weapons, which won’t work for anything, if you can’t get close enough to use them). The ability to weakness ratio as I see it is merely overpowered and completely underbalanced. Giving them nearly irrelevant and insignificant weaknesses in my opinion does nothing to help the fact that they are much too overpowered and exploited in a combat sense. I’m going to echo the sentiments that myself and many others have about the ca, and that’s the fact that it most certainly seems like a strongarm ca, because they have extreme abilities that are completely unaffected irp or combat wise by any weaknesses. 

 

I feel like the azdrazi need a weakness that actually affects them in roleplay, and one that most people can reasonably utilize to balance the conflict. I’m not so concerned about people winning, so long as it is balanced, but I see not any reasonable form of balancing.

 

Though I also look forward to the responses from everyone to address and likely quell my concerns, and I would like to offer my thanks beforehand for the answers and/or responses! I certainly don’t know everything, not at all lol, and I am sure there are plenty of things that I have not taken into consideration!

 

And all in all, I still really appreciate the time and effort put into the rewrite. Regardless of how I feel, I know it’s never an easy task by any means, and requires much effort, so I would just like to thank everyone who did invest time into making the azdrazi ca better, be it whatever way that is. In the end that helps LoTC improve, and really, that’s the end goal.

[excited 10833]

10 minutes ago, StormBreaker0520 said:

 

Before I elaborate on how I feel, I’m going to quote the CA Race Submissions Guidelines, as I feel it’s relevant to my main concerns and questions for the post

 

• “They (the ca race) should also have weaknesses to help balance the creature in roleplay, especially in combat.”

 

• “Strengths and weaknesses of the creature should be elaborated on. This should be used to explain the pros that the creature has (e.g. increased strength) and weaknesses (e.g. fire). As well listing what magics/mundane things are effective/non-effective against it. Include as well how some magics feel/react to in regards to said creature.”

 

To be honest, I don’t really see the week of waiting after an azdrazi is killed as a weakness. Simply because of the fact that it doesn’t really affect anything irp. If I played an azdrazi character that was killed, and I had to wait a week before the flame was rekindled, I would simply take a week hiatus to avoid dealing with the implications of the death. It’s an easily exploited theme that I really don’t see as anything relevant to be able to claim it as a weakness. I see it as an insignificant limitation to their otherwise outlandish abilities. The same can be said for their inability to perform dark magics. An azdrazi has so many powerful abilities that I wouldn’t even see a need to turn to dark magic to accomplish their physical feats. Nor is their infertility any more of a weakness than other magics that turn the user infertile. 

 

The energies of Xan weakness is rather vague and underexplained, in my opinion. It’s listed as a vulnerability, but not elaborated upon in any way, thus I’ll not make any comments on it.

 

When others ask for weaknesses, I feel it’s not so much weaknesses in general as it is combat and role-play weaknesses. In the creature submission guide, it visibly states “They (the ca race) should also have weaknesses to help balance the creature in roleplay, especially in combat.” Looking at the Azdrazi ca, I see no weaknesses or debuffs that would in any way affect the azdrazi irp’ly, especially in combat. All of the weaknesses I do see are either post-combat or out of combat ooc based restrictions around the creatures.

 

You claim that whilst the creature may have strength rivaling that of an orc’s strength, there is nothing that makes them more durable than an average descendant, but I would argue the opposite. On your ca, you mention that their fortitude contests that of an orc, as well as their strength. The very definition of fortitude is courage, and adversity in the face of pain. That in itself is a measure of durability, moreso mental than physical, but still durability. Furthermore, I don’t know of many ca’s that are immune to all forms of heat and poison. They have enhanced physical abilities, enhanced mental abilities, and enhanced resistances. Doesn’t seem dissimilar to a soft ‘god mode’ button to me, and that certainly seems like higher durability than an average descendant.

 

Not only do they have such physical abilities, but they have draconic abilities to further enhance themselves. When you have abilities like firebreath, which has a four block range, and Fireball, which has a 5+ block range (after which it starts to drop), that more or less forces a player to fight from range, less they risk getting burned by fire. Sure, your supposed weakness is waiting a week after death, but that’s if the opposing party can get in close enough to fight in any effective manner (Paladin weapons won’t do crap if you’re forced to fight too far for contact). And to top if off, they have the Burning Heat ability, which enables them to heal one another. Sure, it’s minor wounds, but that still very much tips the balance of a battle in the azdrazi’s favor, as do the rest of the previous spells I mentioned. Any ample minded azdrazi could easily control the outcome of a fight with such overpowered abilities. Again, I point back to the CA guidelines 

• “They (the ca race) should also have weaknesses to help balance the creature in roleplay, especially in combat.”

There are no weaknesses that I can see outright that help balance the azdrazi, in roleplay, and especially not in combat (Other than the paladin weapons, which won’t work for anything, if you can’t get close enough to use them). The ability to weakness ratio as I see it is merely overpowered and completely underbalanced. Giving them nearly irrelevant and insigificant weaknesses in my opinion does nothing to help the fact that they are much too overpowered and exploited in a combat sense. I’m going to echo the sentiments that myself and many others have about the ca, and that’s the fact that it most certainly seems like a strongarm ca, because they have extreme abilities that are completely unaffected irp or combat wise by any weaknesses. 

 

I feel like the azdrazi need a weakness that actually affects them in roleplay, and one that most people can reasonably utilize to balance the conflict. I’m not so concerned about people winning, so long as it is balanced, but I see not any reasonable form of balancing.

 

Though I also look forward to the responses from everyone to address and likely quell my concerns, and I would like to offer my thanks beforehand for the answers and/or responses! I certainly don’t know everything, not at all lol, and I am sure there are plenty of things that I have not taken into consideration!

 

And all in all, I still really appreciate the time and effort put into the rewrite. Regardless of how I feel, I know it’s never an easy task by any means, and requires much effort, so I would just like to thank everyone who did invest time into making the azdrazi ca better, be it whatever way that is. In the end that helps LoTC improve, and really, that’s the end goal.

 

What sets apart Azdrazi from the other playable races is as follows:
- A limited selection of physiologically triggered fire-related spells.

- Being flame retardant

- Taking longer to respawn
- Draconic Culture and Background

You say there is a lack of weaknesses and balance, but you add balances to counteract abilities that are more game-breaking. Azdrazi can still be punctured, beaten, bruised, killed.

 

They have weaknesses to taint as well, though I am unsure what kind of taint they settled upon. In your four paragraphs I’ve seen you dance around providing a reasonable suggestion for what material they should add to their rewrite. What specifically is the ability that you feel needs to be de-buffed? Or requires being counteracted?  Also, Paladins have long-distanced spells and Wyrmstalkers, so I’m not sure that is a viable argument.

I will say the fireball part is new and not necessarily something I agree with adding. But it’s not beyond the scope of reason, and it is not a game-breaking mechanic. 

[Keldrith 717]

Firstly, Werewolf is based. But I do want to say that given the current iteration of Azdrazi, an accepted article of lore, this rewrite caters to all of the complaints about the race. An entire week of not playing my main character would be a real pain, I would say that’s a giant weakness that cannot be underestimated or underplayed. It affects the encounters we put ourselves in, the combat situations more specifically, and effectively gives us a fear that we have to live with daily. If that is not a weakness I truly don’t know what is. If anything, this rewrite serves to prove that the Azdrazi as a whole hear the community, and are willing to change and adapt based on constructive criticism. Honestly, I am happy to stay strong asf and simply use the current lore, but this rewrite is necessary to us because we care, and not enforced by the lore team. I’d say compared to the current iteration that is accepted, the new rewrite is more than enough to appease those who disliked the current combat abilities. In a combat situation, an evocationist (with the exception of fire mages) would have a very fair chance of defeating an Azdrazi now, given the new weaknesses and some removal of certain abilities as a whole. 

[monkeypoacher 6993]

1 hour ago, Malaise said:

 

Thank you for your comment. I want to make it very clear that orc strength is no exceptional nor enforceable benefit to being an Azdrazi. Orc strength is simply strength. It will not save them from a blade being stuck through their gullet or a hammer swung at the back of their head. It might make them swing their sword or hammer a bit harder, sure, but it makes them no more difficult to kill. Their draconic wrath is a simply a roleplay trait, and provides zero benefit to any combat encounter. It might make them more likely to get into a combat encounter, which puts them at risk of death, and the following week of absence from the game. One whole real week’s time of being unable to roleplay said character. Personally, I feel that this is a major weakness, made no less severe by an Azdrazi’s toolkit.

 

The problem isn’t that Azdrazi are overpowered, or that they have the wrong balance of strengths and weaknesses. The problem is you wrote a perverse incentive: Azdrazi are designed to excel in CRP, are encouraged to CRP by their ‘draconic wrath’ and their strength and firebreathing, but Azdrazi also suffer an abnormally harsh penalty for losing CRP.

 

Let’s say you’re Bob the Azdrazi and you have an important date next elven day. You are ambushed by a group of bandits too large to realistically fight back. If dying means you can’t play your character for a week and you miss your date, are you going to be fair to the other players? You are encouraged to powergame in this scenario. Knowing LoTC, this is going to happen a lot.

 

The 1 week timer isn’t fair to Azdrazi and it isn’t fair to the poor souls stuck CRPing with Azdrazi. If I’m fighting an Azdrazi and I don’t want to be an *******, I have to let him live so he doesn’t lose his character for a week. If an Azdrazi is fighting me he’s going to do everything in his power to keep me from killing his character. It’s just bad for RP, just scrap it and replace it with something else.

 

[Malaise 1569]

1 hour ago, howard said:

 

The problem isn’t that Azdrazi are overpowered, or that they have the wrong balance of strengths and weaknesses. The problem is you wrote a perverse incentive: Azdrazi are designed to excel in CRP, are encouraged to CRP by their ‘draconic wrath’ and their strength and firebreathing, but Azdrazi also suffer an abnormally harsh penalty for losing CRP.

 

Let’s say you’re Bob the Azdrazi and you have an important date next elven day. You are ambushed by a group of bandits too large to realistically fight back. If dying means you can’t play your character for a week and you miss your date, are you going to be fair to the other players? You are encouraged to powergame in this scenario. Knowing LoTC, this is going to happen a lot.

 

The 1 week timer isn’t fair to Azdrazi and it isn’t fair to the poor souls stuck CRPing with Azdrazi. If I’m fighting an Azdrazi and I don’t want to be an *******, I have to let him live so he doesn’t lose his character for a week. If an Azdrazi is fighting me he’s going to do everything in his power to keep me from killing his character. It’s just bad for RP, just scrap it and replace it with something else.

 

I appreciate your continued focus on the potential errors in our lore, but want to clarify that this “incentive” to engage in combat does not exist. Draconic wrath is a simple, flavor-adding trait that any Azdrazi can choose to roleplay. It is by no means an incentive to fight someone. You deciding to spare an Azdrazi because you do not want to be a jerk (which you wouldn’t be, they either attacked you or you had reason to attack them) is your own decision to make. Regardless of the merit behind it as a weakness, it is a long-standing facet of the Azdrazi toolkit and remains by popular demand from our playerbase.

[monkeypoacher 6993]

33 minutes ago, Malaise said:

I appreciate your continued focus on the potential errors in our lore, but want to clarify that this “incentive” to engage in combat does not exist. Draconic wrath is a simple, flavor-adding trait that any Azdrazi can choose to roleplay. It is by no means an incentive to fight someone. You deciding to spare an Azdrazi because you do not want to be a jerk (which you wouldn’t be, they either attacked you or you had reason to attack them) is your own decision to make. Regardless of the merit behind it as a weakness, it is a long-standing facet of the Azdrazi toolkit and remains by popular demand from our playerbase.

 

On 10/17/2020 at 4:15 AM, Malaise said:

 

Draconic Wrath

Azdrazi are powerful creatures, much like their predecessors. This power will sometimes manifest as a wrathful demeanor, engendered by the sword-logic that is might maketh right. Though any Azdrazi of sound mind and patient temperament can overcome this base quirk, those more prone to violence and anger may succumb to it quickly, eager to draw their blade or bare their fangs.

 

 

que?

[Malaise 1569]

2 hours ago, howard said:

 

 

que?

The section you’ve quoted is written with specific diction to make clear that the trait is a completely optional part of Azdrazi roleplay. There is no reward gleaned from combat, thus no incentive.

[Jentos 6813]

Know what else has orcish strength, orcs! And what is an Azdrazi? A rare, magical creature chosen through trials and fabricated through ritual. Think of their esoteric prowess to be somewhat comparable to that of an orcish shaman, though with select spells and weaknesses and additional buffs that do not apply to orcs. 

[JustMeMorgan 1000]

2 hours ago, Jentos said:

Know what else has orcish strength, orcs! And what is an Azdrazi? A rare, magical creature chosen through trials and fabricated through ritual. Think of their esoteric prowess to be somewhat comparable to that of an orcish shaman, though with select spells and weaknesses and additional buffs that do not apply to orcs. 

 

Ngl azdrazi are basically space marines at this rate

Super strong

Cool abilities

Hell they never forget anything either so have borderline photographic memories

 

 

 

[Jentos 6813]

ologs

[Gemini 1639]

As a friendly reminder to everyone participating in this topic, please ensure your comments are of satisfaction and proper for general audience. 
 

When offering feedback, it should be healthy and constructive— Something the others may use. 
 

Failure the follow the rules and community guidelines will result in locking the thread and prevent any further replies to it.