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Mina and YOU!


Hiebe
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Okay, so my piece on this new economy system will comprise of numerous different points, that likely have already been brought up but this is literally 5 pages long and I don't want to lose my train of thought, so bear with me here. Color ranged from highest priority concerns, to mid priority concerns, to lowest priority concerns.

 

  • The whole issue with banks being nation-locked is truly unfair to settlements that do not wish to reside under nations. It takes away their ability to be able to hold roleplay with purchasing items, selling items, etc, and would make that kind of RP die out. Many people don't wish to keep an excess of mina on them in the event of pugsies or being bandited. Not to mention my next point:
  • A ******* FIVE HUNDRED MINA CAP on what you can keep in your bank, without paying a fee? This is going to make people NOT want to pay their nation/settlement taxes even more than they already complain about doing. It's harmful to nations and settlements, especially settlements that are still attempting to grow, as these areas require more mina to continue growing and allowing for more housing, better tile developments, etc. Not to mention, SETTLEMENT TREASURIES were not included on the exemption list- only nation treasuries. It feels as if the world team is PURPOSELY trying to make anyone who plays in a settlement want to either quit or be forced to move to a nation so that they actually feel lumped into something. Settlement treasuries are just as necessary as nation treasuries, you cannot change my mind on this.
  • The new system with mina is going to **** over everyone and anyone who makes skins. Are you going to make people resort to RMT? Or are you going to make them lower the prices of several hours worth of work? And what about those who donate skins to the server in order to gain mina? Is that system going away as well? The cap will ruin the idea of making skins for people unless for RMT, which inevitably brings losses to the server revenue, as less players will want to join unless they have a premade or donated skin, less players will want to spend their money on server ranks, and more artists will inevitably be scammed.
  • Another issue regarding the nation exemption from taxes, but how are you supposed to know that users who are nation treasurers won't abuse the treasury exemption? Put their own funds into the treasury to avoid the taxation and keep track of what money they put into it compared to what money the rest of the nation civilians are paying so that they can continue to hoard their loads of money while the economy gets even more fucked than what you're hoping to keep it at.
  • And where is the tax going, anyway? CT? Why does the Cloud Temple require mina? Shouldn't it be running on magick to keep it up and keep it safe? It's not going to help the mina just go back into circulation, because people are going to ask the same thing I am- Why is CT getting the mina if it's a literal godsent safehaven without any damage or government? The mina would be better going to working on making sure settlements, lairs, nations, and others aren't going to be landscars, allowing the users to clean things up easily and fix things around them.
  • With the new economy ideals, what would happen if five players with five hundred mina each all up and left the server permanently? What would be done in that case, regarding the 2500 mina loss?
  • And from the perspective of a friend, who plays amongst the Orcs race: 
    Quote

    I don't have terribly much to add about the mina system but I will say, since one of my characters is an orc, that the system in place requires taxation of citizens that some player bases are neither large enough or willing to do, and so, in the instance of the Orcs, a whole race with very rich lore on the server will be essentially shoved to the back burner to do nomadic raiding tribes RP, which will make new players less likely to interact with orcs, and make the orc community dwindle even further as a result.

    They make a very, VERY valid point when you bring in the fact that the LOTC player base already has a low chance of wanting to interact with the Orc tribes due to the banditing that had occurred numerous times, or because they hear negative things about them-- not to mention, very few people already want to play orcs. This would cause a very lore-rich race die out.

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21 hours ago, Hiebe said:

**You can still store your mina in your bank above 500, but you'll start occurring a 3% weekly maintenance fee. Nation treasuries will not be effected by this. 

 

 

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@Hiebe why was this information only made public day before map release because from what I get from this is that you're gonna ram this down our throats without any regard for the communities input at all, i would like to know if you wanted the community input on this new system why only release this a day before map release.

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But what about skin commissions and such? If there is little mina, then that'll force monetization on something that doesn't need to be an expense. My other concerns have already been stated.

 

 

Don't sack me.

 

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54 minutes ago, FakeNotic said:

But what about skin commissions and such? If there is little mina, then that'll force monetization on something that doesn't need to be an expense. My other concerns have already been stated.

 

 

Don't sack me.

 

Skin makers can lower their prices to adjust to the new economy?

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So now high elves makes a complet 180 on "Mina doesn't matter" to "Magical sky-gods demands mina or so our nation is forced to rot no matter our actions. So mina or boot, blessed citizenry."

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21 hours ago, Boniface said:

Hahaha as if vortex didn't **** things up enough already 

 

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49 minutes ago, Samler said:

So now high elves makes a complet 180 on "Mina doesn't matter" to "Magical sky-gods demands mina or so our nation is forced to rot no matter our actions. So mina or boot, blessed citizenry."

Can't drink tea all day gotta work to maintain the purest nation.

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3 hours ago, Aengoth said:

Can't drink tea all day gotta work to maintain the purest nation.

And work is done! Simply, citizenry isn't payed with mina, it is simply the duty of everyone to contribute, the mina is kinda making us a bit more like long eared humans. 

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15 hours ago, Boniface said:

All this stuff about investing and watching the economy, I hate to remind you that most people come here to take a break from irl or just to have fun, nobody wants to have to keep a constant eye on the economy nor do most even want to understand how economies work. Do we all now need to get economic degrees to successfully play this server now?

 

No, but you don't need to. Economy Team watches the economy... ._.

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This whole thing is just terrible. I joined LOTC so that I could relax and just have fun roleplaying. I don't want to have to deal with saving up hundreds of minas (while being taxed) a week just so I can make sure the place people are roleplaying doesn't implode, or whatever happens if you don't pay your weekly tile costs.

 

This is especially terrible for anywhere that doesn't make the central mechanic of their city obtaining mineman currency... all I want to do is have somewhere to roleplay, and provide somewhere for others to roleplay.

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8 hours ago, Sham404 said:

Skin makers can lower their prices to adjust to the new economy?

 

The point is that they cannot charge a reasonable fee without it being taxed under the new banking system. They don't do this for free, usually, they do it so they can get paid. A skin can usually cost somewhere around $5-$20 USD if you're commissioning for actual cash. Mina sales gave skinners a way to sell their work without needing to do RMT, but under the new eco, that is disincentivized heavily. 

 

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1 hour ago, Hiebe said:

Safety Admin Noobman takes his job very seriously 

Ah you're reading replies, when can we expect an official response to the community?

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1 hour ago, altiar1011 said:

 

The point is that they cannot charge a reasonable fee without it being taxed under the new banking system. They don't do this for free, usually, they do it so they can get paid. A skin can usually cost somewhere around $5-$20 USD if you're commissioning for actual cash. Mina sales gave skinners a way to sell their work without needing to do RMT, but under the new eco, that is disincentivized heavily. 

 

Okay

 

Lets say you charged 1k for a skin on the last map

This map, each mina is worth more, so you charge less mina, but its worth the same amount as what you charged last map.

 

Lets say last map had 25 million mina in the system. This map has 1 million. So, not precise maths here, but you should be charging a fraction of what you charge before. Lets say 1/25. Thats 40 mina. Thats 3/4 days of voting or so. Or you can charge more, say you charge 100 mina. Thats 5 skins of profit before you need to worry about being taxed, and every mina is worth more than last map.

 

Big numbers do not equal big value. The value has changed.

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31 minutes ago, Sham404 said:

Okay

 

Lets say you charged 1k for a skin on the last map

This map, each mina is worth more, so you charge less mina, but its worth the same amount as what you charged last map.

 

Lets say last map had 25 million mina in the system. This map has 1 million. So, not precise maths here, but you should be charging a fraction of what you charge before. Lets say 1/25. Thats 40 mina. Thats 3/4 days of voting or so. Or you can charge more, say you charge 100 mina. Thats 5 skins of profit before you need to worry about being taxed, and every mina is worth more than last map.

 

Big numbers do not equal big value. The value has changed.

 

If you're going to act like a condescending prat, I can very well do the same. Such will be the tone for the rest of this message. 

 

Other avenues of income exist. 1 week of voting gives you somewhere in the ballpark of 126 mina. That's already 1/5th of your bank filled in a week, if you can do basic math. This isn't counting other sources of income, such as sales from Vortex and such. Within a month, your bank is just over 4 mina of the limit, and you'll get hit with the 3% tax. But disregarding that, allow my illustrious and expansive index of knowledge to be bestowed upon you once again.

 

Most skinners, depending on quality, tend to charge somewhere in the usual range of 1k-3k mina, depending on quality. with some costing even more. So let's divide that by five, for shits and giggles. A singular high quality skin sale that would have previously run you 3k mina now runs 600... Which, in a single sale, goes over the taxation limit. A 1k skin is 200, so you make 3 sales before you're over the limit. And you get hit with that juicy 3% tax. So let's say, in a week, that our prospective skinner does a high quality sale, two low quality sales, and voting income. This is not counting any other sources of income; just the skinning and the voting. The first week of taxes snipes 30 mina or so from their bank. About two days of voting income that they could have otherwise kept. And as they sell more, that taxes gets worse. If we stick with that figure and multiply it by four for a month's worth of sales+voting income, with their new balance totaling 4504 mina, they get taxed 135 mina. Over a week's worth of income. Sure, if they keep on selling skins and such, that won't be an issue... But that means they need to keep selling skins and putting in hours of work just to keep what they've earned from being drained to the 500 limit by the tax Monk. The mina for the work that they have put in is drained, which is the crux of the issue. They are effectively punished for plying their trade for in game currency.

 

The value of mina may change, but that doesn't stop skinners from potentially just... not taking mina for their work any more, if they know it will be taxed, and that the values of such taxation are liable to change in the future depending on the economy team's whimsy. 3% can very easily become 5% or 7%, depending on the economy, and the 4504 figure now is being taxed 315 mina under the potential 7% tax... 3 weeks of voting income. Mina skinners are a valuable part of the community's system, as they allow people who may not be able to afford to pay IRL cash for skins, like the younger members of our community, to acquire quality skins to continue roleplaying their current, or even a new character with. Now, I wouldn't expect you to understand that, being so new and all, but I digress. 

 

As I said before, prior to you deleting your status wherein Disco gave you some incredibly sound advice; take his words for gospel. It'll help you in the long run, because he spoke some damned fine wisdom.

Edit:

And before you bring up the argument of "value changed, hurr durr," the artist decides the value of their work. Not you. If they want to keep charging 1k mina for skins, they can damn well do so, because they're the ones with the skill and talent making these skins.

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