The Council of Providence

[thesmellypocket 1839]

 

Father Pius of Sutica (F.S.S.C.T.) finally turns up at the Council in the middle of the proceedings, during Bishop Benedict's recess. He looks frail. He has survived the illness, but it has deeply affected the health of the Elf. Nevertheless, it is as if he has dragged half of the Angelic choir in with him: or rather, that he himself is an Angel, for the stoic, stony, unfeeling Elf is replaced by an utterly gleeful figure, who taps about as if he had wings. Previously known for his lively health and his dour personality, he is now notable for his dour health and his lively personality. He bows humbly to the Bishops and goes on his knees to kiss the ring of the Pontiff.

 

"God and his Holy Angels guard your sacred Throne, and make you long become It. I greet your guardian angels, all of you!"

 

"I am glad I can finally speak to you on the topic of Confession. I think His Eminence Cardinal Goren's superior understanding of Canon Law is evident from this debate. He wrote a most excellent letter in response to my Tract, which was very revealing.

 

I wrote to you before, and I hope I impressed upon you the importance of this topic. This is central to who we are as Priests. Every one of our Faith's great teachers is very clear on that. If we don't understand this topic, we don't understand even our own purpose and mission as Priests. It is utterly critical. I would go this far: if I felt Canon Law embraced a tradition contrary to that which I know has been handed down to us, I would be forced in conscience to step down from my positions. 

 

The good Cardinal's letter revealed much. I can see that traditional Confession had three parts: the confession of sins, the assignment of penance, and the absolution. When you speak of Confession, you are not speaking of what I am speaking of. I am speaking of Confession back in my day - old fuddy-duddy that I am - I am speaking of all three, but you are speaking of but one. Of course, a man could theoretically go around and tell - confess - every Tom, **** and Harry about every sin he has committed. That would certainly be an exercise of humility and not a Sacramental rite. 

 

I understand now. I think all of your many prayers for me have done more for my health in helping me to understand that than in healing my Consumption. Indeed, what is written is truly excellent: "Unless there is grave need, confession should always be taken by a cleric who then celebrates a sacrament of ablution over the penitent." This makes sense. For in the times of the Holy Doctors a Priest would have heard sins and then pronounced absolution immediately thereafter.  And by making true penitence a necessary part of the Sacrament, we prevent priests from simply absolving men without true contrition, and this creates the prior need for Confession.

 

I would suggest two things. Firstly, if we are to have this revised understanding, I do not precisely see the absolute necessity of holy water in governing the validity of the Sacrament. I mean that, in the past, the absolution part needed no holy water. Of course, the water is very good and underlines what we have said about the renewal of Baptism, but an absolute necessity for absolution, this cannot be the case, not unless we are to rule all the Confessions of ages past invalid. It was always considered that when the Priest pronounced an act of Absolution - or Ablution, to use the modern term - this was the part of the "traditional" Sacrament of Confession that actually and sacramentally absolved a man from his sins. This is a more minor point, it must be admitted. Therefore I would have it modified: "The form of the Sacrament is holy water, or an Act of Absolution (Some variant of "I absolve thee from thy sins") if taken with Confession, which ordinarily it ought to be."

 

I would also have it impressed heavily that, whilst Confession ought to be followed by Ablution by the same Priest, Ablution (unless Baptism) ought to be ordinarily proceeded by Confession (I mean by the same Priest.) For then, the term "penance" takes an objective, sacramental form. This is very important. Confession was so attractive in the past because it was so reassuring. A man, upon hearing the words of absolution, knew he had been forgiven. Now, a man will be left questioning whether he has done penance sufficient, whether his "spirit" is suitably penitential, et cetera. But in the old, facts don't care about your feelings: so long as you, with an act of the will, confessed your sins and then renounced them, and then swore never to sin again, and agreed to a proscribed penance, you would be absolved! What wonderful clarity! And how much less dependent on that niggling and changing thing we call the emotions of men - let alone those of women! Hence, if a man goes to Confession and then receives Ablution immediately thereafter, he knows he is forgiven - and if we do not impress this, we risk opening the floodgates to the spiritual problem of scrupulosity, which may be the spiritual ruin of thousands. It is clear therefore that a good Confession ought to be the objective way this penitence is defined. Yes, I am a doctor of souls, and no canon lawyer, but there I can speak with experience! 

 

Certainly, laymen and even women may hear others tell them about their sins to them. There is no trouble. But I don't see the point. There's nothing there. The layman can't absolve you from them, only a Priest can. And the Priest ought not to give you absolution unless he can know to a reasonable level of satisfaction that you are a "sincere and penitent seeker of God." The only way for him to establish this is to have heard his Confession first. Most Canonists - including me - find it hard to confess to an anonymous Priest - let alone, I mean - I don't think we would like to confess for the fun of it! Nor do I see the point in giving these lay "confessions" - accepting the modern definition which separates it from the absolution - any kind of official status."

Edited December 27, 2020 by thesmellypocket

[Drumoldth 207]

After reading the document, father Otho asked for permission to speak. Once it was given he said "Holy Father, i have read the document and i approve it. I suggest no further changes. I ask of God's forgiveness if i have missed an error." Otho sat down and did the cross.

[Harald 2465]

After spending many waking hours reading over the document with a careful eye, Johan would finally let the piece rest. “I see no reason for any other changes then those already pointed out. The canon law shall be blessed and keep us safe within its ruling.” He’d sign the Lorraine before Turing it in, going over to take his leave the Lay-Cardinal would first walk towards James II making sure to give his old friend a word and ordering the Holy Knights to keep their position before walking off.

[Lojo613 1420]

Goren rises to his feet once more, bowing deeply to Pius. “God bless you brother, and you do not need to refer to me as Cardinal any longer. Your argument is strong, and I see that you are correct, that the law ought to emphasize the simplicity of the Confession, and that it therefore ought to be entirely connected to the Sacrament of Ablution. Yet, Confession is much deeper than a simple act of humility. Perhaps this is my experience alone, but of all the Confessions I have taken, the vast majority of individuals confessing have not already made their penance, but seek something deeper, they seek advice. And advice I give, always drawn from the Texts. I recount to those wayward souls the stories of Owyn, of Horen, the laws as well as the end of days. I recount to them these that they might find both comfort and context for their own lives. I firmly believe that this is the purpose of the act of Confession, the personal education of a lost soul in the same truths that gird us of the priesthood with so much comfort. Some men never find ablution, yet they still come to confession, they still come for advice and to learn the truth and be shown the proper path with love and grace. All I ask is that the women of our church, the monastics and abbots of our faith, be given the same right. There is no innovation in faith, but I do not propose we change our faith, only the way we guide our flock towards the same unchanging truth we have always upheld. We know that the ministry is but a tool of God, something which changes as best needed to serve His will. Perhaps this great council may find a compromise, and instead of opening the gates of confession to the laity, we create a new category within our ministry that properly separates the monastics from the laity and gives these men and women duties which we know that they are capable of performing. If we knew ablution to be the renewal of the Baptism, then perhaps this act may be performed by monastics? This edict would join the rites of Confession and ablution once more in simplicity, but subsequently expanding the roles of our convents and abbeys.” He pauses before going on “Oh, and as it is not being debated, I still hold firm to my statement that the nuns are wives of God, just as the Pontiff is His Vicar, and should retain the right to perform exorcisms.” He then sits down again.

Edited January 1, 2021 by Lojo613

[thesmellypocket 1839]

9 hours ago, Lojo613 said:

Goren rises to his feet once more, bowing deeply to Pius. “God bless you brother, and you do not need to refer to me as Cardinal any longer. Your argument is strong, and I see that you are correct, that the law ought to emphasize the simplicity of the Confession, and that it therefore ought to be entirely connected to the Sacrament of Ablution. Yet, Confession is much deeper than a simple act of humility. Perhaps this is my experience alone, but of all the Confessions I have taken, the vast majority of individuals confessing have not already made their penance, but seek something deeper, they seek advice. And advice I give, always drawn from the Texts. I recount to those wayward souls the stories of Owyn, of Horen, the laws as well as the end of days. I recount to them these that they might find both comfort and context for their own lives. I firmly believe that this is the purpose of the act of Confession, the personal education of a lost soul in the same truths that gird us of the priesthood with so much comfort. Some men never find ablution, yet they still come to confession, they still come for advice and to learn the truth and be shown the proper path with love and grace. All I ask is that the women of our church, the monastics and abbots of our faith, be given the same right. There is no innovation in faith, but I do not propose we change our faith, only the way we guide our flock towards the same unchanging truth we have always upheld. We know that the ministry is but a tool of God, something which changes as best needed to serve His will. Perhaps this great council may find a compromise, and instead of opening the gates of confession to the laity, we create a new category within our ministry that properly separates the monastics from the laity and gives these men and women duties which we know that they are capable of performing. If we knew ablution to be the renewal of the Baptism, then perhaps this act may be performed by monastics? This edict would join the rites of Confession and ablution once more in simplicity, but subsequently expanding the roles of our convents and abbeys.” He pauses before going on “Oh, and as it is not being debated, I still hold firm to my statement that the nuns are wives of God, just as the Pontiff is His Vicar, and should retain the right to perform exorcisms.” He then sits down again.

"A man may sit down, tell his sins to a holy woman and get advice on them, there is no trouble there. Most nuns far outdo me in holiness, and I am happy to consult them. When they consult me, I pray God speak through me, and in His mercy He usually answers. And these very devout women say: "Father, I wonder how you do seem to know the secrets of my heart!" I do not, but He does. But when they come to me for Confession, they are coming for something quite different. The advice is well and good. But Confession has always been understood as the floodgate of God's mercy. They don't want my advice primarily - frankly, I don't blame them" He laughs at himself happily "They want God's mercy. When a penitent comes to me in Confession, I try to minimise my personal point of view, so flawed and prone to rashly judge, and instead try to see that soul as God sees him, speak to him in the words God would say, and absolve him as God would free him from sin. When I go for advice, I want the advice of that person, man or woman, cleric or lay. When I go for Confession, I want the mercy of God. The two are quite different, but not entirely separate."

 

"How can this Absolution - sorry, I am old - Ablution be performed apart from the Priesthood? We didn't create the Sacraments, we received them, because it was not we who established the Priesthood, but God. God never demands of us the impossible, of necessity He cannot condemn us for what we cannot do, being infinitely just. And so Confession and Ablution in exetremis, in this circumstance, the rite itself, without priestly absolution, will do, for God accepts the contrition without the medium of the Priest. This does not mean, however, we should not make it the rule, for that is not God's will. The Sacraments serve God; He is not junior to them, but being their Author, He desires to ordinarily work through them, but He is not confined by them. And hence here, the desire of ablution signified by the Confession of sins and the act of a layman is sufficient to give the remission of sins. But in the ordinary, the Priest is the visible representative of God, and absolves in His Name, and therefore Absolution and Confession are joined in what was traditionally called the Sacrament of Confession."

[Lojo613 1420]

Goren responds, his feeble body rising once more like the tides on the forgotten shores of lost Arcas. “It is not my advice I give. It is not from my life, from my experiences, which answers are drawn. All advice is that which is granted by Him, in His words. And as Father Pius has noted, we have both presided over very different flocks. When men and women come to me, they do not come begging for forgiveness, or the mercy of GOD. Those who have such spirits are often the least likely to have sinned at all. In my time, those who have been the most ardent attendants of Confession are those who do not truly know if they have sinned, or have mired themselves so deep within the twisting black garden of Iblees that they cannot find the light alone. They come with questions, not requests. As for the matter of the Sacrements, GOD is indeed the Author of these most holy of rites. That being said, the priesthood is an organization which represents GOD and may administer and organize itself as it so pleases. While established by GOD, it is the right of the Church to rule itself in a just manner. This includes the manner by which it affirms who is and who is not capable of performing the Sacrements. The nature of the Sacrement does not change, as there is no innovation in faith, but the manner by which the priesthood determines who can perform such a Sacrement is, and always has been, subject to the whim of the Pontiff who was appointed as the Vicar of GOD and builder of bridges. If such a thing were rigid, it would not be within Pontifical power to alter the age at which youths may enter the priesthood, nor within the power of bishops to ordain new priests. By the grace of the Church, we may create hierarchy within the priesthood, and restrict or let the Sacrements out as is necessary, as we see with the manner by which the Sacrement of Ordainment is reserved for Bishops rather than granted freely to all priests. A solution, or compromise, would therefore involve the creation of a new rank within our clerical hierarchy which would see that women and monastics may perform the Sacrement of Ablution, while being unable to perform other Sacrements which are reserved for the priesthood. Aside from that, the only recourse I see is to allow all monastics to take Confession, but not grant ablution. The Church is a Tree of Life to those who hold fast to it, and all who do are happy. It connects Terra and Heaven, and the sap which runs through its body are the Sacrements. A Tree is alive, it grows, and it is not rigid, but sways in the wind, unbroken by the storm.” Goren finishes with a hacking cough, his body sinking once more to a seated position.

Edited January 1, 2021 by Lojo613

[thesmellypocket 1839]

15 hours ago, Lojo613 said:

Goren responds, his feeble body rising once more like the tides on the forgotten shores of lost Arcas. “It is not my advice I give. It is not from my life, from my experiences, which answers are drawn. All advice is that which is granted by Him, in His words. And as Father Pius has noted, we have both presided over very different flocks. When men and women come to me, they do not come begging for forgiveness, or the mercy of GOD. Those who have such spirits are often the least likely to have sinned at all. In my time, those who have been the most ardent attendants of Confession are those who do not truly know if they have sinned, or have mired themselves so deep within the twisting black garden of Iblees that they cannot find the light alone. They come with questions, not requests. As for the matter of the Sacrements, GOD is indeed the Author of these most holy of rites. That being said, the priesthood is an organization which represents GOD and may administer and organize itself as it so pleases. While established by GOD, it is the right of the Church to rule itself in a just manner. This includes the manner by which it affirms who is and who is not capable of performing the Sacrements. The nature of the Sacrement does not change, as there is no innovation in faith, but the manner by which the priesthood determines who can perform such a Sacrement is, and always has been, subject to the whim of the Pontiff who was appointed as the Vicar of GOD and builder of bridges. If such a thing were rigid, it would not be within Pontifical power to alter the age at which youths may enter the priesthood, nor within the power of bishops to ordain new priests. By the grace of the Church, we may create hierarchy within the priesthood, and restrict or let the Sacrements out as is necessary, as we see with the manner by which the Sacrement of Ordainment is reserved for Bishops rather than granted freely to all priests. A solution, or compromise, would therefore involve the creation of a new rank within our clerical hierarchy which would see that women and monastics may perform the Sacrement of Ablution, while being unable to perform other Sacrements which are reserved for the priesthood. Aside from that, the only recourse I see is to allow all monastics to take Confession, but not grant ablution. The Church is a Tree of Life to those who hold fast to it, and all who do are happy. It connects Terra and Heaven, and the sap which runs through its body are the Sacrements. A Tree is alive, it grows, and it is not rigid, but sways in the wind, unbroken by the storm.” Goren finishes with a hacking cough, his body sinking once more to a seated position.

"That is not true, for you merely lack a distinction between what is rigid and what is firm. The age of admission to the Priesthood, except that, I suppose he be old enough to have the use of reason (For Owyn instituted men as Priests and not toddlers as the Gospel tells us), is, I grant you, fluid. But the very form and nature of this Sacrament is vested in the Sacred Priesthood. For the Prophet has said: "No man can call himself above them." Them being the Sacraments; Proverbs chapter three; verse six.

 

For it has always been held that this renewal of Baptism given by the remission of sins, is explicitly rooted, and, as part of the very form of the Sacrament, indelibly linked to the Sacred Priesthood. This is clearly the authoritative teaching of the Church as regards this Sacrament and has always been so, that this not be merely a changeable discipline, but a matter of the form of the Sacrament itself, thereby being a matter of faith, and there can be no innovation there.

 

I should consult the wonderful Encyclical of Blessed Jude the First, which, I repeat, every Priest and Acolyte should read at once, and for that reason I have brought it with me here. Sacerdoti in Nostra Ecclesiae makes it explicitly clear. Moreover, so does the Act of Absolution itself: wherefore Ven. Humbert added: By that same authority or something to that effect, I mean to say the authority of the Sacred Priesthood, I absolve thee. It is therefore clear that it has always been understood that it is on the Priestly authority from whence the Absolution comes. If there were no Priesthood, there would be no Sacrament. Dispensation is given, again, as I said, to in exetremis Ablution, but that proceeds from desire and not from substance, for they receive the benefits of the Sacrament because God is pleased to grant their intent, not because the form of the Sacrament itself is apart from the Priesthood. To therefore extend the Sacrament apart from the explicit Sacerdotal dignity is a perversion of the very Sacrament, not merely a disciplinary change, for the remission of sins has always proceeded, as part of the Sacrament itself, from the Priest, and on his authority alone, a layman's authority being insufficient to absolve."

Edited January 2, 2021 by thesmellypocket

[Lojo613 1420]

Goren’s bony hand rises to his beard, stroking the tangled and unkempt mass thoughtfully. His dark, sunken eyes drift inquisitively over the rest of the room, studying the faces of his peers. With a nod to himself, he rises, as sure and slow as the passage of time. “Father Pius and I may debate this topic for centuries” Goren says, his voice warm and gentle. “But someone must always have the last word in a debate, and for the sake of those listening I shall argue no longer. I stand by all statements I have made, and still urge the Council to find in favor of the changes I have proposed, but as of now I shall make no further rebuttal.” Goren pauses, and then, following a short series of coughs, he states “Let those present draw their own conclusions based on all said up to this point, and take my lack of further argument not as a forfeit of my position.” Goren smiles to the congregation, bowing to Pius in particular, before seating himself. A simple serenity settles across his form as he looks towards the High Pontiff, awaiting a ruling.

[VIROS 2709]

James II, of increasingly ill health as the months have passed, calls for silence as the debate between Fr. Pius and Fr. Goren calms down.

 

"Thank you both, venerable clerics. Using your arguments, I have determined that the canon law will continue to require that confession is only accepted by laymen when there is grave need. Let us now move for a final vote of all priests present, to adopt the document in its entirety. Simply indicate aye or nay, with any final comments, to Sister Anabel."

 

The High Pontiff's nephew and nurse, Theon, indicates to the Secretariat that she may begin tallying the votes.

 

((CANON LAW DOCUMENT))

[Iudaes 1087]

"Aye." Manfried says.

[Harald 2465]

Johan would look to James with a slight smile and dip of his head "Aye" 

[Lojo613 1420]

“Nay” Goren states “on the grounds of exorcism not being extended to nuns.”

Edited January 4, 2021 by Lojo613

[drowknows 696]

"Nay, the idea of nuns being able to exercise exorcism is unfathomable, that is a practice for the men of Horen." The Santegian Bishop would vote.

[erictafoya 2302]

Upon careful inspection, Father James Charles would ask for permission to speak. Once given, he simply said "Your Holiness, I approve of this document. My vote is aye"

[Drew2_dude 2130]

“After reading much into this, my vote is Da your Holiness.” Father Karl Kortrevich would dip his head to the delegation, signing the Lorraine before returning to his seat.