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Dialogue with Bjorn


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MALGATH OF SUTICA: DIALOGUES.

PART THE FIRST: BJORN.

 

The Enduring Nature of Scholasticism ~ The Imaginative Conservative

Fraternity Publications, Dobrov: 1804. 

 

ABOUT THE AUTHOR.

 

Malgath, later called Father Pius, was an High Elf convert to Canonism. These Dialogues were written before his conversion, at Sutica, probably in the mid-1700s. He had studied under an Akritian philosopher called Pythagoras (where he probably got the Dialogue genre), but left him around this time, for it is at this point he has embraced monotheism. PUBLISHER’S NOTE: The addition of the name of the character speaking (e.g. BJORN:) is an editorial addition, and was not part of the original Dialogues. The same is true of the sections.

 

BJORN.

 

The scene is probably Pius’ little house in Sutica. Bjorn is an All-Fatherist; a member of the Red Faith. This Dialogue shows why Pius rejected AllFatherism and believed in what he calls “The God of the Philosophers”; later identified with the God of Canonism. 

 

I: THE NEWS.

 

BJORN: I had to come at once, Malgath. I heard my friend had left the service of Pythagoras and was embracing monotheism. I fear it will lead you to worship the Cross-God.

 

MALGATH: I do not think you need fear that, Bjorn. I cannot foresee myself ever becoming a Canonist, and putting my trust in relics and Saints like they do. But what I do confess is the existence of the First Cause, omnipotent, omnibenevolent and omniscient, the Supreme Good; Pure Being, from whence all beings derive their being. The Canonists also worship this same: and therefore we do believe in the one and same God, as also of the Rashiduns, but I do not claim to have been vouchsafed any Revelation from Him, and that is where I differ to both.

 

II: On Belief in the All-Father.

 

BJORN: At least I can be assured of that. For I despise the Canonists. They pride in weakness, and call it humility. But I still do not understand how you can believe in the omnipotence of God. The god we worship, we call the All-Father, and he is not omnipotent, for we do not see how an omnipotent god would not destroy evil; for if he so willed (as surely he would) there would be no evil. And therefore we confess that the All-Father is the strongest being, but not supremely strong in the sense of omnipotence. You should therefore join my religion.

 

MALGATH: You say that your All-Father does not destroy evil because he is not able?

 

BJORN: Yes.

 

MALGATH: Then why do you accuse the Canonists of weakness when they acknowledge their own weakness? Because your god himself is weaker.

 

BJORN: You better explain this blasphemy before I become violent, you imprudent weakling.

 

MALGATH: You say that God cannot be all-powerful, else He would remove evil.

 

BJORN: Assuredly. 

 

MALGATH: It therefore follows that your god is not all-powerful because he cannot remove evil. 

 

BJORN: Yes, it must be so.

 

MALGATH: It therefore follows that evil is stronger than he is; darkness is stronger than light. For if he is willing to remove evil, he is deficient only in the strength to remove it. And therefore evil must be stronger than him.

 

If you would worship that which is strong, and hate that which is weak, does it not make more sense to worship evil, since evil is stronger than your god?

 

BJORN: I'd never really thought about that.

 

MALGATH: Well now you have. What do we do?

 

BJORN: We...we do the best we can. 

 

III: On the First Tenant.

 

BJORN: But he created us, and gave us his light, and told us to suffer not that which is unworthy; this is the First Tenant of our Red Faith.

 

MALGATH: Whom do you define as unworthy?

 

BJORN: I say some races, the undead, Canonist clerics, khas, the impure fornicators of mixed races and their offspring, and other manner of weakling creature. And those who, possessing reason, allow themselves to be conquered by the flesh.

 

MALGATH: You call them weaklings, is lack of strength and intellect that which renders them unworthy?

 

BJORN: Yes, I would say lack of strength and intelligence makes one unworthy.

 

MALGATH: But how can this be? You yourself were a baby once. You were weak in body, and possessed no intellectual ability of reason, but lust for food and so forth, only. Were you, therefore, unworthy of life, and ought to have been given over to death?

 

BJORN: Yet this is not so, because I could have grown to become worthy in due time. Therefore, there was the possibility of worthiness, and to kill would have been a sin against the Worthy One.

 

MALGATH: Yet many of these unworthy creatures are strong, and are possessed of strong will and intellect, and suffer not the temptations of the flesh. For example, many men of mixed breeding, and even the undead and the wicked have been known to possess strength and reason. Wherefore do you call them, unworthy?

 

BJORN: No, Elf, you have the wrong of the matter, revealing your ignorance.

 

MALGATH: I am ignorant, which is why I ask.

 

BJORN: Indeed. I would say rather that worthiness is defined by the relation to the All-Father. That which the All-Father loves, is worthy, and that which he hates, is unworthy.

 

MALGATH: Why should you follow him, when he calls this worthy and that unworthy? Why ought his commands to be followed; why are they good?

 

BJORN: Because, as the name implies, he is our Father, who created us, and gave us life. In him we live, and move, and have our being, and therefore ought we to follow him.

 

MALGATH: Do you love your mother?

 

BJORN: No, I hate that *****’s guts.

 

MALGATH: Wherefore so?

 

BJORN: Aye, because she is a drunkard and given to pursuing vile perversities. 

 

MALGATH: Would you follow her, if she commanded you to follow her in her path? 

 

BJORN: Certainly not.

 

MALGATH: Then why say you this? She gave you life, and yet you despise her commands. And so I am free to despise the commands of your All-Father. To give life, therefore, is not sufficient reason to follow commands, or to call these commands good. The commands must be good in themselves. The tenants of the All-Father must be judged according to the Good, to which he is inferior and junior. For to be judged, implies inferiority. And this Good wherewith we judge, or rather He Himself judges, we call God.

 

For it is clear that your god commands these things because they are good, not they are good because he commands them.

 

IV: On the Third Tenant. 

 

BJORN: The All-Father is the life that gives light! Wherefore are we commanded: “Stand against the long dark.” This means to live a life full of light, to stand against the encroaching darkness. One of our writers has said: “The Long Dark is that dreaded moment when the firmament fails and life on Terra is snuffed out forever.” This is the Third Tenant of our Faith.

 

MALGATH: What do you mean, full of light?

 

BJORN: I mean a life that is strong. You see, we despise peace, and love war. I rejected Canonism the moment I read an “encyclical”, or bull, or whatever manner of thing it was called, from one of their Pontiffs. For he wrote of “peace” as a good thing! But peace is no doubt an agent of darkness, for it suffers the weak to live. War culls the weak and allows the strong light-bearers to live.

 

MALGATH: But you have already said that certain creatures that are strong, are unworthy; therefore strength and survivability is not the measure of light.

 

BJORN: But it is written into the Law of Nature that the strong survive, and the weak die. Therefore it is the will of our creator that this be so. Moreover, the end of life we are called to stand against, and therefore the prolongation of life is our purpose.

 

MALGATH: What is the animal that is very long-lived and survivable?

 

BJORN: I am told by many men of learning, that turtles live seldom less than two centuries.

 

MALGATH: Should you not therefore worship and revere turtles? 

 

BJORN: What manner of nonsense do you speak, Malgath?

 

MALGATH: Hear what I say, Bjorn. For they live longer and survive all the storms of the world. If the “Long Dark” is to destroy all men, then turtles shall have done a better job than men in standing against it. Men drop like flies. Ought you not then, to revere turtles and to discard men? Why do you raise men as paragons instead of turtles?

 

BJORN: The life of men is higher than the life of turtles.

 

MALGATH: Why?

 

BJORN: Men are possessed of reason.

 

MALGATH: So what of an “unworthy” creature possessed of a greater intellect, who is also strong and survivable? Is he not more full of light than you? And moreover, are not Elves possessed of long life and great intellect? Wherefore, are Elves not superior to men according to your view? They “stand against the darkness” far better than you, and therefore you ought to serve and grovel before the Elves. I do not hold to this position, to be sure.

 

BJORN: I trust that you never never did!

 

MALGATH: You are rather my equal, being made by God as a rational creature with gifts of your own, mine being long-life, but it seems to me men being possessed with greater wisdom, because I actually believe your short lives make you live better and seek philosophy more than the Elves who delude themselves too often and go either prideful or insane. And surely, if “quality” of light is more important than “quantity”, what is it that makes rational life higher than irrational? 

 

V: Bjorn Counters.

 

BJORN: But this is all superfluous, Elf, for you have not addressed the cause of our disbelief in your God. For you define God as all-good and all-powerful, and yet evil exists. But if evil exists, and He has both will and power to destroy it, why does it exist? And how can Supreme Goodness begat evil? If evil therefore exists, there can be no Supremacy of the Good. 

 

MALGATH: What is evil?

 

BJORN: Evil, we call the “Long Dark.” 

 

MALGATH: Is “darkness” the absence of light?

 

BJORN: Certainly.

 

MALGATH: So darkness has no positive existence, but is a lack of light. And so evil, which you define as darkness, is an absence of the Good.

 

BJORN:  What do you mean? 

 

MALGATH: Take food. Food is a good thing. It sustains life, and brings delight. But a lack of food is starvation; an abuse of good is gluttony. 

 

BJORN: And how does this alter our position?

 

MALGATH: It means that, right as you are to say that God cannot create evil, so true it remains. God permits evil, in that He permits those good things He has made to be deprived or perverted by the will of creatures.

 

BJORN: What is your implication whence following? Why would God suffer evil in the first place?

 

MALGATH: I would answer that: what is better, to live a horrid, inconvenient truth, or a comfortable lie?

 

BJORN: I would say the truth is better than a lie, however comfortable it be.

 

MALGATH: Have you not then made a differentiation, highlighting an hierarchy of goods? That truth being better than comfort, when you say it is better to live honourably and harshly than deceitfully and comfortably, and with great suffering?

 

BJORN: Illustrate with an example.

 

MALGATH: Would you say that “Courage”, is a virtue and good?

 

BJORN: Indeed, it is the highest.

 

MALGATH: Whence does the necessity of courage spring?

 

BJORN: I would say, adversity.

 

MALGATH: What mean you, by “adversity?” Would you agree that adversity presupposes an overcoming of suffering? And that suffering is evil?

 

BJORN: Yes.

 

MALGATH: Is not therefore the higher good of courage dependent upon the lower evil of suffering? Can God not therefore suffer this privation, which we call evil, so that the higher good of courage might exist?

 

I cannot justify to you why each and every evil exists in such terms, but I can demonstrate that evil permitted can lead to higher goods. And therefore, evil and God are not contradictory, for He, being, as you say, "the One in whom we live, and move, and have our being," knows our greatest good better than we ourselves do, and that infinitely so, and therefore any evil in the world is not incompatible with this belief. 

 

VI: Malgath Argues Against the Fatherist Scriptures.

 

BJORN: But verily, Malgath, our scriptures are far superior and evidently divine.

 

MALGATH: On the contrary. I said that evil has no positive existence, but is a plague on the Good. In the same way, your alleged Revelation is a plague on that other alleged Revelation, Canonism. Your scriptures are moreover, cryptic and barely to be understood, whereas the Canonist Scriptures instruct men plainly in virtue. 

 

BJORN: I will thrust this dagger through you and pull out your lungs if you continue in the manner of my fathers, you naughty fellow.

 

MALGATH: Then do so, for the unexamined life is not worth living. I would rather die in pursuit of truth than kill in a fit of rage. 

 

BJORN: These are your last words; so make of them a prayer!

 

MALGATH: You say call your god the All-Father. But do you not know that this originates in Canonism? For it is written in their Scriptures, in the Book of Virtue: “I am your Father, and the Father of all things.” In Flexio, the resemblance between the two terms is closer. For I met one of their Priests who had the original Flexio Scrolls, and, being a student of that language, read in Virtue “PATER RERVM OMNIVM.” And this title has been used by Canonists for centuries. 

 

BJORN: Sheer coincidence!

 

MALGATH: Is it so? And moreover, you can see the author you cited spoke of the earth as Terra. Terra is Flexio for the earth, and the first recorded use is the Scroll of Virtue. So both the name of your deity and your name for the world, were first Canonist, and then Norlandic. So it is clear that the Norlanders took things from the Canonists, rather than the other way around. So it follows that the Red Faith is a corruption of the original religion of Man, Canonism. 

 

BJORN: This rather speaks in our favour, and for this cause we call Canonism “outdated!”

 

MALGATH: What do you mean, by that? Does something becoming new make it good, and something old, bad? We may have had good times of plenty replaced by plague, but novelty does not suffice for us to choose plague over plenty. And does not religion make eternal claims? How does, for example, the doctrine of omnipotence, a belief outside of time, become more or less true based on the year that we live in (little more than a number)? Right is right even if everyone hates it; wrong is wrong even if everyone loves it. If a polytheistic religion were to be created tomorrow, could they not call your belief on monotheism “outdated” by measure of yours being the older?

 

BJORN: I shall suffer you no longer.

 

EVARIR: Hail, Malgath. Son of man, Bjorn, why do you brandish a sword about you?

 

BJORN: I was merely showing off my new sword, trust in that! I shall presently depart!

 

MALGATH: May God lead us closer to the truth!

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Solomon Takezo nearly chokes on his tea as he reads this, head dipping as his shoulders shake briefly with silent laughter. As he finishes, he wipes a tear from his eye and takes one final gulp. "Well! I didn't know Cannonists wrote comedy, this is quite the piece of work. Truly someone needs to do some fact checking, and Aspects, I hope no-one takes this as truth." 

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Manfried Cardinal St. Julia signs the cross after receiving his late friend's work from Dobrov, reading the publication with a smile, "By the grace of God, Father Pius still gifts us with his work after death. May the Lord bless him in his eternity in the Seven Skies."

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Urauan Stormheart gives his thoughts and prayers to the brathmorakin at his shrine  "Heh Canonisim stupid" he'd state as he'd palce a set of high elf ears onto dungrims alter

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Griffith of Gwynon read through his old copy of the Dialogues that Father Pius gave to him, beginning in the Bjorn section. As he read through the work, he came to his realization that he read not for the meaning of the words on the page, but read for any semblance of words Father Pius had spoken. He felt as he would cry at the reminder his friend had passed but was reminded that soon he would be up in the Skies with his friend, so his sadness was overcome by joy.

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In the far north, a phantasmal crow would deliver such a missive to an aged Keeper of the Flame, tending to her Flamebrand in spite of the biting cold of the frigid domain she sought refuge in. Looking to it curiously, she would pen a response to such slander of the Father's name.

 

"Fictitious diction makes for poor lessons, follower of the Crossed God. Allow me to enlighten you, as a Keeper of His Flame, and one of the only individuals qualified to speak of the Faith in detail. This fabrication of the foulest sort is... humorous, in a way. 

 

Perhaps the first mistake in such publication is thus; Only the Keepers, those entrusted with the Holy Flame of His Light, would be delving deep into matters of the Faith such as this. It is something of a taboo, among those of the Flame, for non-clergymen to attempt to explain that which they do not fully understand. For a metaphor a Canonist could understand, the Keepers are the shepherds, tending to our Northern flock. The flock does not shepherd itself.

 

On your musings of the first tenet, I am left with but a scoff, as this was written by someone with no true grasp on Norlandic culture, the ideals we truly stand for, nor why we worship the Father. While this will tie into my stance on the third tenant later in this missive, I shall leave the greater details on that for further on. For now...

 

If you had bothered to pick up a Primer, which are sold plentifully and cheaply, you would know that in ancient days of yore, when Thoromir and the first of our people wandered the Frozen Wastes, it was the Allfather who, in his pity, made pact with the Herald. In return for the eternal fealty of the Norlandic people, the Allfather, in his august mercy, delivered unto us the First Flame; that which all Hearthfires and Flamebrands is descended from. This is but a single reason why we worship the Father. 

 

The second reason, that which I personally subscribe to, is much different than what you've claimed. We do not worship the Father because he is the strongest of all. Such would be outright falsehood.

 

We worship the Father because despite his weakness in the face of the encroaching darkness, that which seeks to consume all things and undo the very essence of creation, he fights on. In his eternal quest to drive back the Long Dark, he would stand alone against the odds, and fight on until it would be his own damnation. He is not all powerful, for if he were, the Void would be undone with but a minute flex of his will. But even still, even without power over all things, he continues his stand against that damnable Void which seeks our very undoing. Is such a cause then not admirable, to follow in his stead, to stand against the Long Dark?

 

Many of Norlandic stock would think so.

 

Moving on, the fact that you failed to understand the First Tenant in your falsified ramblings is truly awe-inspiring, given that such can be surmised rather easily. Worry not, my crestfallen rat, for I shall enlighten you as to its true meaning. 

 

A good number of Keepers define Unworthiness as the refusal to fight for one's own livelihood. It is not Unworthy to be weak, but it is Unworthy for one to refuse to strive to greater heights, to overcome the obstacles set before them in their crusade against a world which seeks only to break them of their will to fight. To be worthy, then, is to rage against that darkened night, and ascend beyond one's limits to become Worthy in the eyes of the Father. True weakness is not a lack of strength, but a lack of will to seek such strength. 

 

This is what we deem 'Unworthy.' True weakness, not of body, but of mind.

 

The musings given on the Third Tenet sicken me, as a woman who has fought the Long Dark and emerged from such scarred and beyond marred by my battle with it. The Long Dark, in Norlandic culture, is the end of all that is, and would be. The totality of creation, wiped out by the hungering maw of darkened jaws. Our stand against the Long Dark is to scourge the world of all that would bring about such an end, not to usher in such an end ourselves. To bring the mage, the heretic, and the darkness to heel beneath our boot, and redeem them in Holy Flame so that they may be judged by the Father... this is what the Third Tenant truly means. I would expect not of racists and weak men to understand this, hiding in your cathedrals and basilicas of polished marble and gold. 

 

Your final 'rebuttal' of Faith scripture confuses me, truly. The only publically available religious text that we offer to the world is that of the Primer, which explains in simple terms what we believe, and how we go about our lives. Is this truly too much for a feeble mind to grasp, or was this another oversight in your pedantic ramblings? Truly, if I were a busy woman, I would not have replied to such trite, slanderous words, but my fellows of the Flame would likely only ridicule and demean you for your ignorance. I would be remiss not to offer a proper rebuttal to such gross misunderstanding. 

 

To finish this missive, I must say that the gross mis-representation of Norlandic culture is appalling. Those of my former home of Haense sought to understood us, and in doing so, they published an article exquisitely detailing our culture, beliefs, legal system, so on and so forth. You insist we are but craven dogs seeking war eternal, yet the truth could not be further from such, as war only distracts us from our stand against the darkness. 

 

Seek the Flame, ye of Unworthy stock, so that ye may be saved in the Father's Embrace.

 

-Signed,

 

A Keeper of the Father's Flame."

 

[!] Such a missive would be delivered by Elysian crow, such that a response might be given by those who wish to do so. The letter itself scribed in crimson ink, etched with aged quill upon tattered parchments, it would look distinctly time-worn, despite it being newly written.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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"This is incredibly.. Based" Cardinal Pelagius-Albarosa would remark, spending almost 4 years of his early Priest ventures within the freezing mountains of Norland, reminiscing on when he spent all that time converting those of the Red Faith to Canonism.

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1 hour ago, altiar1011 said:

In the far north, a phantasmal crow would deliver such a missive to an aged Keeper of the Flame, tending to her Flamebrand in spite of the biting cold of the frigid domain she sought refuge in. Looking to it curiously, she would pen a response to such slander of the Father's name.

 

"Fictitious diction makes for poor lessons, follower of the Crossed God. Allow me to enlighten you, as a Keeper of His Flame, and one of the only individuals qualified to speak of the Faith in detail. This fabrication of the foulest sort is... humorous, in a way. 

 

Perhaps the first mistake in such publication is thus; Only the Keepers, those entrusted with the Holy Flame of His Light, would be delving deep into matters of the Faith such as this. It is something of a taboo, among those of the Flame, for non-clergymen to attempt to explain that which they do not fully understand. For a metaphor a Canonist could understand, the Keepers are the shepherds, tending to our Northern flock. The flock does not shepherd itself.

 

On your musings of the first tenet, I am left with but a scoff, as this was written by someone with no true grasp on Norlandic culture, the ideals we truly stand for, nor why we worship the Father. While this will tie into my stance on the third tenant later in this missive, I shall leave the greater details on that for further on. For now...

 

If you had bothered to pick up a Primer, which are sold plentifully and cheaply, you would know that in ancient days of yore, when Thoromir and the first of our people wandered the Frozen Wastes, it was the Allfather who, in his pity, made pact with the Herald. In return for the eternal fealty of the Norlandic people, the Allfather, in his august mercy, delivered unto us the First Flame; that which all Hearthfires and Flamebrands is descended from. This is but a single reason why we worship the Father. 

 

The second reason, that which I personally subscribe to, is much different than what you've claimed. We do not worship the Father because he is the strongest of all. Such would be outright falsehood.

 

We worship the Father because despite his weakness in the face of the encroaching darkness, that which seeks to consume all things and undo the very essence of creation, he fights on. In his eternal quest to drive back the Long Dark, he would stand alone against the odds, and fight on until it would be his own damnation. He is not all powerful, for if he were, the Void would be undone with but a minute flex of his will. But even still, even without power over all things, he continues his stand against that damnable Void which seeks our very undoing. Is such a cause then not admirable, to follow in his stead, to stand against the Long Dark?

 

Many of Norlandic stock would think so.

 

Moving on, the fact that you failed to understand the First Tenant in your falsified ramblings is truly awe-inspiring, given that such can be surmised rather easily. Worry not, my crestfallen rat, for I shall enlighten you as to its true meaning. 

 

A good number of Keepers define Unworthiness as the refusal to fight for one's own livelihood. It is not Unworthy to be weak, but it is Unworthy for one to refuse to strive to greater heights, to overcome the obstacles set before them in their crusade against a world which seeks only to break them of their will to fight. To be worthy, then, is to rage against that darkened night, and ascend beyond one's limits to become Worthy in the eyes of the Father. True weakness is not a lack of strength, but a lack of will to seek such strength. 

 

This is what we deem 'Unworthy.' True weakness, not of body, but of mind.

 

The musings given on the Third Tenet sicken me, as a woman who has fought the Long Dark and emerged from such scarred and beyond marred by my battle with it. The Long Dark, in Norlandic culture, is the end of all that is, and would be. The totality of creation, wiped out by the hungering maw of darkened jaws. Our stand against the Long Dark is to scourge the world of all that would bring about such an end, not to usher in such an end ourselves. To bring the mage, the heretic, and the darkness to heel beneath our boot, and redeem them in Holy Flame so that they may be judged by the Father... this is what the Third Tenant truly means. I would expect not of racists and weak men to understand this, hiding in your cathedrals and basilicas of polished marble and gold. 

 

Your final 'rebuttal' of Faith scripture confuses me, truly. The only publically available religious text that we offer to the world is that of the Primer, which explains in simple terms what we believe, and how we go about our lives. Is this truly too much for a feeble mind to grasp, or was this another oversight in your pedantic ramblings? Truly, if I were a busy woman, I would not have replied to such trite, slanderous words, but my fellows of the Flame would likely only ridicule and demean you for your ignorance. I would be remiss not to offer a proper rebuttal to such gross misunderstanding. 

 

To finish this missive, I must say that the gross mis-representation of Norlandic culture is appalling. Those of my former home of Haense sought to understood us, and in doing so, they published an article exquisitely detailing our culture, beliefs, legal system, so on and so forth. You insist we are but craven dogs seeking war eternal, yet the truth could not be further from such, as war only distracts us from our stand against the darkness. 

 

Seek the Flame, ye of Unworthy stock, so that ye may be saved in the Father's Embrace.

 

-Signed,

 

A Keeper of the Father's Flame."

 

[!] Such a missive would be delivered by Elysian crow, such that a response might be given by those who wish to do so. The letter itself scribed in crimson ink, etched with aged quill upon tattered parchments, it would look distinctly time-worn, despite it being newly written.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A man quotes the Dialogue which says that Malgath clearly said "strong will and intellect", not merely bodily, indicating that strong will was also not a good criterion of worthiness, because many mages, undead and so forth, possess strong wills. 

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13 minutes ago, thesmellypocket said:

A man quotes the Dialogue which says that Malgath clearly said "strong will and intellect", not merely bodily, indicating that strong will was also not a good criterion of worthiness, because many mages, undead and so forth, possess strong wills. 

 

So too, then, would that man find that in the paragraph he seeks to rebuke, that the paragraph said 'In the eyes of the Father.' With but a rudimentary knowledge of the Red Faith, one would swiftly surmise that if one would stoop so low as to aid in the undoing of all creation, that they are not, in fact, 'worthy.' 

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